There’s A Reality About Hillary Clinton That Many Liberals Need To Face


hillary-clinton-2Let me list a few numbers for everyone:

  • 78
  • 80
  • 80
  • 83

Those are the ages that Supreme Court Justices Stephen Breyer, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy and Ruth Bader Ginsberg will be when the next president is sworn in, respectively. The next president we elect (assuming he or she serves two terms) could very well be the individual who selects four Supreme Court Justices.

Now, in a world where we’ve all seen how powerful the Supreme Court can be concerning the laws that impact all of us, who on the left wants a Republican such as Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz or Scott Walker potentially selecting four Supreme Court Justices?

Listen, I know quite a few people on the left aren’t huge Hillary Clinton supporters. I personally like her, but I understand that a lot of people don’t. Even as a supporter, I know she’s far from perfect – but there’s a harsh reality that Hillary haters on the left need to face.

Listen, I love Bernie Sanders, but it’s highly unlikely that he could win a general election and become presidentHe’ll be 75 in 2016, meaning that if he served eight years he’d be 83-years-old. Even if you get past his age, which many wouldn’t, he’s also a self-described socialist. If you really think this country is going to elect a self-described socialist to the White House, you really should take a look at the Gallup poll that shows even 41 percent of Democrats won’t support a socialist. That’s significant, whether or not many Sanders supporters want to admit it. Furthermore, Sanders is really best suited for the Senate. It’s where he can do the most good.

Outside of those two, it’s almost too late in the game for someone like Joe Biden to sneak in and stand a chance. Especially after the first Democratic debate where both Clinton and Sanders performed well.

Liberals might not like hearing this, but it’s almost certainly going to be Hillary Clinton or a Republican in 2016. It really breaks down to these two options:

  1. Either get on board with Hillary Clinton, even if she’s not everything you’ve dreamed of. – or –
  2. Whine because Sanders probably won’t win the nomination, become apathetic, then let Republicans win the White House in 2016; likely replace four Supreme Court Justices over the following 8 years; start a war with Iran; ruin the planet; destroy our economy again; and undo all the good that’s been done these last 6 years.

Yes, it’s really that simple.

The question is, would you rather have a candidate who supports 60-70 percent of what you support, or almost none of it?

And spare me this, “I’ll vote for an independent because Americans need to move away from the two-party, corrupt system that’s ruining this country” nonsense. Look, if you want to waste a vote based on principles, that’s your choice. I’m telling all of those people right now, Republicans won‘t. In fact, Republicans are hoping that’s exactly what many liberals and independents will do.

The system is what it is and it’s unlikely to ever change. We’ve mostly been a two-party system since the founding of this nation, and definitely have been for the last century and a half. While some liberals will go off and pout in a corner, pointlessly carrying on about how their wasted vote is a “stance against a system they don’t support,” you know what Republicans will be doing? Voting for Republicans and destroying this country.

Republicans overwhelmingly won last November, not because they were popular or ran the better candidates, but because liberals let them win. For every liberal who didn’t cast a vote, that was essentially a vote for a Republican. The GOP thrives on lower voter turnout and a disjointed Democratic party. Hell, they count on it.

So, while I understand that Hillary Clinton isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, I can promise you this much – she’s a hell of a lot better than any Republican alternative. So to all of you liberals who loathe her and feel that voting for her would be “selling out,” do you really want a Republican president potentially replacing four Supreme Court Justices? Do you really want someone like Donald Trump, Ben Carson or Marco Rubio setting up the power in our Supreme Court for the next 20-30 years?

It all goes back to one simple fact: If liberals don’t want to get behind whomever is the Democratic candidate for president in 2016, then a Republican is going to occupy the White House after President Obama. This isn’t me trying to sensationalize anything or using hyperbole, I’m just telling you the truth.

If it’s Sanders, back Sanders. If it’s Clinton, back Clinton. But as someone who’s studied a ton of data over the last few months, Sanders as the Democratic nominee makes it very likely Republicans win next November. I know that’s not what many Sanders people want to believe (or will they) but I’m not someone who deals with knee-jerk reaction or hopes and dreams. My goal – my only goal – is to ensure our next president is anyone but a Republican. And facing one of the most important elections in many of our lifetimes, I’m sorry, but I’m not ready to roll the dice on a candidate that polls show even 41 percent of Democrats might not support. Though, don’t get me wrong, if he were to win the nomination I’d be one of the biggest cheerleaders for Bernie Sanders just as I will be for Hillary Clinton.

But even if I break this down to its simplest form, ignoring any mention of who is or isn’t running for president, then the question really comes down to: Who do you want potentially replacing four Supreme Court Justices in the next 8 to 10 years – a Democrat who supports same-sex marriage, abortion rights, health care and the separation of church and state, or a Republican who opposes all of that and then some?

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Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.


Facebook comments

  • BobJThompson

    I don’t care. I will not play the lesser evil game anymore. If all the democrats have is being a bit better than the republicans, then they deserve to lose.

    • Mr President Sir!

      We can’t afford for them to lose. As he said we cannot afford to have complete right winger choose 4 supreme court justices. That is just to damn important. Consider this, yes it choosing between the lesser of two evils. But the gap between the two evils is huge and we can’t afford to be stuck with the greater evil right now with them already in control of both houses. Give them control of the Supreme Court and the White House as well…….we will all be living in Ayn Rand’s dream world and it will be a nightmare!

      • BobJThompson

        Every election is “the most important election ever”. 3rd way style democrats along with republicans are killing the middle class in this country. Actually since I was born in ’82, I’ve never really experienced what a vibrant middle class is like.

        You’d better believe I’m totally against the Randian world view, but I’m not going to participate in re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. (better known as blindly supporting democrats) There are too many issues that need fixed and that requires taking on the big money interests rather than placating them. We don’t have time to keep doing the exact same dance over and over again. The bar’s closing.

        I’m not against the democrat party, and I actually plan to help Bernie Sanders if he decides to run. But Clinton? Nope. She won’t take on the people ruining the world. She owes them too much.

      • trubrew

        And which Republican candidate will do that for you? I was a conservative for decades until I did the math and realized Republican Presidents always wreck the economy (Reagan’s out of control interest rates and tripling the national debt, Bush l with the S&L scandal and more debt, then Bush ll crashing the economy and more than doubling the national debt).

      • BobJThompson

        I’m not at all a conservative.

      • JD Mulvey

        Then why do you espouse the views of one?

      • redgeek

        He’s saying that Hillary is too conservative for him! And she’s very conservative economically and on foreign policy.

      • BobJThompson

        Because supporting Bernie Sanders is totally a Tea Party thing to do.

      • JD Mulvey


        1) “I will not play the lesser evil game anymore.” <Republican talking point

        2) “No matter what I do, I will not be a spoiler. I will
        not play that role in helping to elect some right-wing Republican as
        President of the United States." <Bernie Sanders

        Now tell me: which of these statements is the one that you made and which one reflects the position of Bernie Sanders?

      • BobJThompson

        Since when do republicans say that? Are you sure you’re not thinking of lolbertarians. What Sanders is saying is that he wouldn’t run as an independent in the general election. Sorry if I actually vote for candidates that I actually agree with and not the party label.

      • Wanda

        The problem with that Bob, is there’s usually only two on the ticket. You see what happened with Al Gore when Ralph Nader threw a monkey wrench in that election. Same thing will happen if you don’t vote for one or the other. I will always vote for the Democrat on the ticket over the Republican. Besides Democrats who are center want at least 60% of what you want anyway. You’ll never get anything if another republican wins. They’ll rescind everything we’ve fought to change.

      • okieggma

        smart girl wanda. These men and their flights of fancy are so silly.

      • Suomy Nona

        Sanders 2016!!!

      • BobJThompson

        If Gore had run a better campaign, Nader would’ve gotten less votes.

        That 40% is economic issues where they both serve the super ultra mega wealthy. This gap in wealth is a major driver in a ton of our societal issues. And that’s the one thing you will see neither of the corporate approved candidates actually doing anything on.

      • Suomy Nona

        Wanda, that shits old,, If you really feel that way make sure to nominate Sanders, With or without a NADER the left isnt going to vote for her..

      • Suomy Nona

        To bad Hillary didn’t share Bernie’s sentiment because it looks like shes helping to elect a right wing Republican

      • JD Mulvey

        Too bad you’re replying to comments from two months ago and no one will ever read your “intellectual” musings. And btw… you’re an imbecile.

      • Suomy Nona

        Thats why i posted it on google+, there are alot of us fighting to prevent Hillary from stealing the Nomination and our conversation does alot to show how little the Hillary Supporters care about the “ISSUES”

        You would think you would be working to this end yourself…The Progressives hate Hillary and will not vote for her, With or without a NADER in the race

        That’s just fact, and no amount of fear mongering will change that. People like you However, will vote Democrat no matter what. To you its just a football game, so the “ISSUES” dont matter

        Seems like the smartest thing if you want your team to win is to Nominate a candidate who can win.

      • JD Mulvey

        “Working” –which in your insane little padded box means insulting people on the internet. All your “work” won’t count for jack because people will still vote and democracy will still happen whether you like it or not.

      • Suomy Nona

        “Working” ???? are you confused??? who said working, are you having a conversation in your head??

        Who insulted who??? Im Cunfused are you having a conversation with your self?

        You know Sanders is Running as a Demcrat right?

        Clearly my point was simply If Hillary get the Nomination the Progressives wont vote for her,

        This is True,, Sorry to burst your bubble

        That’s why you attacked BobJThompson right, because hes another Tea partyer voting for Sanders?

        Show were I insulted you. Are You Fucking Hillary or something..
        also Stop talking to yourself i dont know what your talking about “working” or were i insulted you

      • JD Mulvey

        You’re too stupid to read your own comments?

      • Suomy Nona

        someone is reading it. and getting very upset by it.

      • JD Mulvey

        “Getting upset” is what you call it when people refuse to be bullied by you? I won’t let you harrass me into silence, Republican toll.

      • Suomy Nona

        WTF are u even talking about..If I wanted you to shut-up i wouldn’t keep responding

        Getting upset is what I call it when people are so mad they cant control themselves and start resorting to name calling instead of a discussion about “issues”

        Half your responses help my case, LOL

        Everytime you lose your cool and respond with an insult instead instead of discussing the “ISSUES” I post it for others to see

        I have plenty of post just like yours from Right-wingers doing the exact same thing when i asked them to discus “ISSUES”
        Like I said your posted right next to a right winger calling me names for making him confront the reality that the founding fathers wern’t christian,,

        You people look like fools calling people who support Sanders Republican trolls. lol
        expecial when post right next to a republican troll who is acting the same way

        and then insulting my grammar, that why we need free education in the country, That’s a point for Sanders
        LOL, Its to fucking funny
        FYI there are now 16 comments regarding this conversation,

      • JD Mulvey

        You fucking asshole. You do realize that your posts are easily read by anyone who wants to follow a link, right? So anybody can see the vile, insulting names you’ve hurled at every poster who has the nerve to support someone you and your Republican buddies don’t like?

        A little fucking shitbag like you isn’t going to bully me or anybody else. You don’t have the right to decide who can or can’t vote or who they vote for.

        You should be grateful you can hide behind a false name, huddled in your padded cell, spewing hate –because if you ever had the nerve to say these things face-to-face you’d get the bloody beatdown you richly deserve.

      • Old Man

        I’m reading them and laughing at you. Did you even go to school?

      • Allen Anderson

        well it would be great to have some justices on the supreme court who actually believe in the constitution and will vote to uphold it rather than find mysterious things in it like they did in roe vs wade and let millions of babies be murdered

      • Mr President Sir!

        Oh you mean justices who would take a completely literal stance. Like that it says all MEN are created equal and endowed with certain unalienable rights. Not woman? So you want a supreme court who will decide that since they were not covered under that they do not even have the right to make their own medical decisions and need big government to do it for them…..since they are not men and therefore have no rights. Is that what you are saying?

      • UnderDog8

        An interesting argument, except it’s totally invalid since you quoted the Declaration of Independence NOT the Constitution!!

      • Mr President Sir!

        Totally invalidates it……hmmmmm only if you consider the Declaration of Independence as having no bearing on the basis for our legalize as well.
        I think it is more you did not like the message so you found fault with the envelope. However I commend you it is not often someone from the right actually knows something about real history. Congratulations for being above the curve!

      • UnderDog8

        To the best of my knowledge and belief, the Justices of the Supreme Court have never issued an opinion based on their interpretation of the Declaration of Independence. For that reason, the point you were trying to make in the first post is, in fact, invalid.

      • 1450

        Please get your history straight before U show that Liberals are just as stupid as Conservatives. U r quoting The Declaration of Independence which while a GREAT part of our history IS NOT in any way a part of our laws or means of governing like The Constitution. Your mistaken statement is an embarassment to us Liberals.

      • Mr President Sir!

        I know my history and I know what I quoted. The only embarrassment around here is yourself. Trying to pompously call out someone else. Because you can’t grasp the conversation past a literal interpertation.

      • Omar

        You don’t know your history and you had no idea what you were quoting. Don’t show yourself to be a completely ignorant fool and then try to insult others, it makes you look even more ignorant than you already showed.

        I have a secret for most of you: None of you do or were ever supposed to actually vote for the president(or senators but unfortunately that changed). The reason you think you do or should is the same reason why you don’t. Check and balances, this one against stupidity. Which is going full force in these comments.

      • Mr President Sir!

        Omar I have a secret for you as well….. You need a life!

      • Jasonw357

        Ayn’s Rand’s dream world would be awesome! A hell of a lot better than Hillary’s nightmare!

      • okieggma

        Baloney, have you read her books? they are just plain stupid.

      • Jasonw357

        Yes I have read them, they are great. Individualism is so much better than socialism. And the way this country is being ran, they want everyone to conform. That is what’s baloney. I will not conform, I will stand out and be me!

      • okieggma

        Jason, read about her life after she fell out of favor….she lived on Social Security and whined it was not enough for someone of her stature to live on….

      • ccaffrey

        I’ve seen 5-year-olds with a more highly developed sense of right and wrong. than Ayn Rand. Two-year old is more like it ME! ME! ME! Mine! Mine! Mine! Puff Puff Puff.

      • Old Man

        You’re a fucking idiot.

      • Violet

        Agreed! People who think there is no difference apparently think having Bader-Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan is the same as having Alito, Thomas and Scalia. It’s a huge difference, and people can either throw a tantrum and throw their vote away on Bernie Sanders [who I love but who will never be president], or get a Democrat in to make some Supreme Court appointments so that the system can be made better.

      • ccaffrey

        You’re jumping the gun a little. FIRST, we have primaries and that is a GREAT opportunity to get the issues and platforms laid out. If Bernie is running, he’ll run as a Democrat I’m thinking, because that’s where labor is and (if we can halt it until then) that’s where trade policy is going to get debated. There is a truly great coalition of organizations working against the TPP…and any candidates’ support of that monstrosity is a NON-STARTER for me.

      • redgeek

        The author of the Roe V. Wade decision, Harry Blackmun, was appointed by Richard Nixon. The mood of the nation determines the Supreme Court much more than this quad-annual fear mongering admits. And all this ready for Hillary Wallstreet politics will take the US ever more rightward.

      • okieggma

        Hillary is NOT the lesser of two evils….I resent the hell out of that remark……you men just continue to argue dead horses and we women will take care of the business of electing her. Stupid men.

      • Mr President Sir!

        Humm….sounds like you are supporting her because she is the one Woman in the race and all men are stupid. Although if she wins the primary then the horse will be dead and then and only then will I stop kicking it and get on board with Hilary. Not that ya’ll extremely intelligent Women will need any stupid male votes to elect. I’m sure you can do it with out us.

      • okieggma

        Most of you on here are never going to vote for a woman or a Democrat….you are as phoney as they come…..none of you have even thought through what you post……yes, we can do it without you.

      • Mr President Sir!

        I rarely have ever in my life not voted for a Democrat. Also in the Democratic primary of 2008 I voted for Hillary Clinton. Because I felt she was the most qualified between the two. However in the end I supported and voted for President Obama. Not because he was a Democrat, Not because he was a man, but because he was infinitely superior to having the Republican war monger John Mc Cain win. If Hillary wins the Democratic primary and I expect she will I will both support and vote for her. Not because she is a woman nor because she is Democrat. I will vote for her because she is infinitely superior to any one the Republicans will field and to me that is the only deciding factor that should matter to any one.

      • Omar

        Wow you are limited.

      • okieggma

        You must be very young and inexperienced at politics Omar…..I am a 72 year old great grandmother and I have been waiting 20 years to help put her in the White House. You stupid men have screwed up this country for long enough….we are over you.

      • Omar

        Well you seem to be so stupid that you’ll never even know how ignorant you are. If you want to see why this country is screwed up, simply look in the mirror. You are legion. Intelligence is rare.

    • Larry Saltzman

      And you deserve a Supreme Court that will shred the last vestiges of Democracy will you feel virtuous. You deserve a planet that soon won’t be able to support life because you wouldn’t vote for a candidate that at least feels global warming is real. I wish we had a lot better candidate than Hillary, but she is the hand we are being dealt.

      • mCG24443

        No, America deserves what it gets. I would rather vote for the best candidate. Fear mongering looks bad on democrats…

      • Thomas Wallin

        Hey Larry, in the national security state over which our President Obama officiates, the Bill of rights is already being shredded. That’s because we don’t have a principled Democratic Party taking a meaningful stand on anything.

      • A. Rush

        So demand better, Larry. It’s not like SCOTUS is protecting our democracy now, is it?

      • BobJThompson

        The supreme court has been doing that anyhow. Does it matter if the decisions are 5-4 or 9-0?

      • Larry – it is probable the idiotic replies are creationists.

      • Theresa Long

        Larry, I agree with you 100%. I am, however for Hillary. No one has ever given me a good reason to not select her. If, the republican win 2016, they will destroy our American system as we know it. I am hoping Elizabeth Warren is her choice for V.P.

      • Mark Schmidt

        I HATE this anti Hillary bullshit and I really suspect the motives of those who support it. Democrats MUST WIN THE ELECTION in 2016, period. She can do that. After that, it is up to us to push her to the left.

      • redgeek

        And how has that worked with Obama? We’re still in two wars, he’s sent drones regularly into 6 countries, he’s pushing the TransPacific Partnership, continuing Guantanamo, recognized a coup in Honduras, recognized a coup in Egypt. While there are some good things in the Affordable Care Act, the majority of the bill is a government-enforced monopoly for the insurance agency. While I’m glad he vetoed Keystone, he’s pushed fracking and more offshore drilling so that we’re now a NET EXPORTER of oil and he shares a great deal of responsibility for the collapse of climate talks in Copenhagen. He vowed to be the ‘most transparent’ administration, but he’s prosecuted more whisteblowers than all previous presidents COMBINED, and the only CIA employees imprisoned for torture are those that leaked the story. Then there’s the NSA, etc.

      • Kiki Fogg

        “No one has ever given me a good reason to not select her.”
        She voted for the Patriot Act twice, the second time right before her first presidential campaign (that is to say, she immediately ran for the office she had just extended the extra unconstitutional powers of). She also collaborated with Joe Lieberman & Jack Thompson on media censorship policy (that thankfully failed). She is a proven tyrant who has repeatedly demonstrated her total disregard for the Bill of Rights. Good enough reason for you?

      • redgeek

        She also voted for the Iraq war, sat on the Walmart Board for a couple of years. Revealing comment of hers: when the Republicans were wasting the nation’s time investigating Whitewater, they asked Hillary why she was a lawyer for so many corporations that had business with Bill’s Arkansas. She said, “I’m a lawyer, who else would I work for?”

      • okieggma

        I would like to see her run with Julian Castro.

    • raulgarcia

      Same here. I will sit back and let the Republicans finish burning this country to the ground. The Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves for not giving us a candidate we could stand behind and support.

      • Bob

        Then I hope you are young enough to pick up the pieces. With four new ultra conservative Supreme Court justices. It may be all over but the crying

      • fwithebull

        thanks,guys,,,,true patriots,,,,#worldisdoomed

      • Lword

        If you want someone else it is YOUR responsibility to work for and support a candidate you prefer during the primary season you lazy twit. It’s not the Democratic party’s responsibility to GIVE you anything. Go out and work for what you want or you won’t have it. Find someone you want to support, get up off your lazy arse and work for them. Geez, do they teach anything about how the Republic, our political system and our government works anymore?

      • JD Mulvey

        Thank you, Lword.

      • raulgarcia

        Calling me a lazy twit? Call me what you want. But I’m no cop out like the rest of you posers.

        See you on November 8, 2016 cop outs.

      • ccaffrey

        Hey, as far as I can tell the GOP doesn’t HAVE to ANYTHING except sit back and watch us eat our own.

      • okieggma

        bullshit…..there is nothing wrong with Hillary and if you listen to the hate radio jocks well you are no Democrat.

    • bfg

      You do not care. That’s all we need to know about you.

      • BobJThompson

        Sorry to make you read more than one sentence.

    • mantaradio

      Hmmm but I think the writer has a good point. I’d give my left arm if Warren could be president, so if voting for Clinton means it’s more likely that Warren will have power or be in Senate, I don’t consider a win for Hillary merely a ‘lesser evil’ by a long shot. I’ll be voting for the leader I want, in a different way.

      • BobJThompson

        I’m wary of politicians that are media darlings. Although Warren seems a bit more genuine than most. I do plan on helping Bernie should he run in the primaries. If he doesn’t get the nomination, I’m going Green again.

      • okieggma

        He has already said he is not going to screw the pooch. Get off it already.

    • Yes, you will. You have a choice between two candidates. Not voting for the Democratic candidate is a vote for the Republican. That is not a moral position; that’s pouting.

      Now, there is a position that comes out of revolutionary politics. That position is to work for the destruction of the country, on the premise that revolutionaries will build a new paradise out of the ashes. The presumption is that the revolutionaries will not suffer along with everyone else. That’s naive, unless you’re a 1%-er. The presumption also is that the destruction will be blamed on its authors, and not on some convenient scapegoat, such as gays or blacks. That’s naive.

      There is no magic trick that will fix the system. It’s a long, hard slog ahead. We got Obama because of the widespread fantasy that anyone can just ride in and fix things. We got Bush for the same reason. We lucked out with Obama, he was much better than Bush. But not good enough.

      • BobJThompson

        Based on what you say, every election cycle approximately 50% or more of the voting population stay home and “vote republican”. If you want those votes, you need to engage them and make them feel like it actually matters that they vote. You won’t get that when the 2 main parties are functionally the same aside from a few token social issues that, big scheme, don’t matter much.

      • Bee Nice

        So you think both parties are “functionally the same”. How about you do some research?

      • BobJThompson

        How much has Obama raised taxes on the mega wealthy? Have any of the bankers that caused the 08 collapse seen the inside of a prison cell? Is the NSA still collecting every single shred of data that people send electronically?

        How about Bill Clinton? I mean NAFTA has worked well for us. Permanent normal trade relations with China too.

        Economically both parties are entirely too similar. There are many problems that face the country. We aren’t going to get them fixed if we keep on electing the same types of people that got us there.

      • okieggma

        They are not the same….women know that, why don’t you men.

      • BobJThompson

        If you’re talking abortion, national democrats aren’t going to fix that. Local and state governments are the ones trying to limit access. A defacto ban by over onerous regulations.

        The party against big government typically are the ones doing that. Breaking what they claim to be about, for white American Jesus.

    • Bob

      And then what happens – more religious discrimination laws like Indiana, more citizens united laws, more corporate welfare, certainly another war !

      • BobJThompson

        If democrats weren’t spineless and actually looked out for the majority of the American people, they wouldn’t have to worry about people like me not supporting them. Instead they gleefully take campaign donations (bribes) from big business and give us a liberal position on a few token social issues. They will never fight the rich because they “need” them.

    • Violet

      That’s ridiculous. If you think there is no difference between having Supreme Court justices like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elana Kagan on the one hand, and Scalia, Alito and Thomas on the other hand, then it’s no wonder Republicans now hold the Supreme Court. If people like you would have voted for Gore instead of Nader, we wouldn’t have the Citizens United ruling, and maybe more Progressive candidates would have a chance against all the big money, but instead, people wanting to make a point voted for Nader, and handed the election to Bush.

      • BobJThompson

        If Gore had been a better candidate, then Nader wouldn’t have taken votes from him.

    • ML

      BobJThompson • 25 days ago
      I don’t care. I will not play the lesser evil game anymore.

      So you’re going to vote for the MORE evil, BobJ? @@BobJThompson:disqus

  • patcee14

    I would like to see Bernie run because he is not afraid to tell it like it is. He would raise important issues and do a great job arguing for credible answers to our country’s problems. I doubt if he could make it to the White House because, yes, he is too liberal. Even if that might be what America needs right now. But it would be great to have someone bring up subjects we need Hillary to discuss in detail. After all this time and all her appearances, I can’t really give someone a clear picture of what she’s all about or why she should be President, other than her husband did a good job. She needs to start talking.

    • BobJThompson

      I think Sanders actually could make it to the white house. If given a fair chance to express his views in the media. Unlike Obama he has a pretty solid history in favor of his populist rhetoric.

      • okieggma

        He is an avowed socialist Bob, what fun do you think the GOP would have running against him…use your head.

      • BobJThompson

        Everyone on the left is a socialist to them. May as well get one that is articulate and would do his best to discuss actual policy. (the gop weakness) Personal attacks are for idea-less cowards.

  • Cemetery Girl

    I am so tired of the thought that we can only have two options: democrat or republican. That’s it, pick the less horrible one based on what they’ve said about the issue or two that personally matter most to you. Or vote based on your party alliegence. That is what matters to both parties. Either party could promote a dead fish as a political candidate but remember your party alliegence and vote for that dead fish! Both parties are interested in their own power. The people have been brainwashed into thinking that America is either democrat or republican, but our history hasn’t always had these as the main parties. It is time for some party changes. A politician needs to be embraced by either party to have a successful career, which means working towards the party goals. Enough is enough. We, as a nation, only have to decide between these two parties because we are told it’s the only way.

    • Brian

      It’s doubtful that it’s even legally possible for an independent or third party to hold presidency, let alone convince millions to vote for a third party, almost all of which are quite insane. There is only two options, don’t delude yourself into thinking otherwise. And keep in mind that the only two parties have ever won since their inception, with very few exceptions. That’s not gonna change. Make the best of it or leave.

      • A. Rush

        Of course it’s “legally possible” for someone besides a D or R to hold the presidency. Nowhere in the law does it say the office is reserved to one of those parties. Our Founding Fathers didn’t even want political parties and hoped that we’d avoid them, knowing they brought out the worst in people.

        I can’t believe we’re already trotting out the SCOTUS card and the campaign hasn’t even begun. When all else fails, scare the electorate into thinking about who’ll appoint the next round of justices.

        Every election is “the most important in our history.” It’s getting old. No, I wouldn’t like it if the GOP won the White House, but please explain to me how, on foreign policy and civil liberties, Obama is any different from Bush, and how Hillary would be any different from either of them.

        If you keep settling for “the lesser of two evils,” guess what? You still get evil. You can’t expect a better government if your choices are Evil and Evil Lite, and you pick Evil Lite to block the even worse Evil. It’s not working, and it never will. There is absolutely nothing stopping people from supporting third parties and independent candidates — nothing but fear and apathy.

      • Brian

        Ok, throw away your vote in the name of principle. The system is thoroughly rigged. A third party cannot win. The rest of what you said is just drivel.
        Listen numbnuts, if you want a tea party president that condones mass deportation, genocide of gays, war with Iran, war with China, war with Russia, then go ahead and don’t vote. It’s on your hands. This is what we are actually facing.
        This is reality. Your idealism doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to anyone or anything. If you can’t stop being delusional, cry me a river. You’re what’s wrong with this country.

      • Kyle Dearing

        Look, another idiot who has no idea what the 15% barrier is. People accepting of a 2 party system because “it’s always been that way and it won’t change” is what’s wrong with this country.

      • Brian

        You can even look at other countries. Most first world countries only ever elect one of two parties, despite having several. The exception is France and their government is hideously fractured and never gets anything done as a result.
        You are simply delusional if you think that a third party candidate ever has the slightest chance of winning an election. Electoral law is rigged against it. It is simply impossible.
        Tell you what, let’s look at the “popular” third parties. We have the constitution party, the libertarians, and the green party.

        Right, have fun with that.

      • Kyle Dearing

        Where did I say I refuse to vote? I vote in every election because Marines who served before me died for that cause. I vote third party because I refuse to support a broken system. Reaching 15% of the popular vote opens the coffers to future candidates that may fall in-line with my own aspirations for our country. Allowing someone outside the 2 party system access to funds needed to sustain and win a presidential campaign. From everything I’ve seen, that candidate will never come from the Republican or Democratic parties, so I cast my vote in an attempt to change that. We’re screwed regardless of who we get in 2016 because of this systemic problem, the only hope for a better future is to change the system.

      • Brian

        Did I ask you about your military background and I don’t care, as I do not worship or respect soldiers more or less than anyone else so don’t bother pulling the veteran card. Address what I said. Do you want murderous theocrats running the country?

      • Kyle Dearing

        Believe me, I don’t need your praise nor respect and wasnt looking for it, I was providing context to your warrantless assumption that I don’t vote. I do vote, and I take it very seriously.

        Do you want a contemptuous lawyer who at every turn has proven she views herself as “above the law”, who hates the very idea of individual freedoms unless they are her own, running this country?

        I see both parties making a mockery of the very Constitution I swore an oath to uphold, sorry if I refuse to be complicit with either simply because of a little browbeating from morons who can’t see the forest for the trees.

        All of this talk doesn’t even take into account the electoral college, which renders the individual voter’s opinion moot, but it’s fun to entertain a system where yours, or my vote, will make one iota of a difference.

      • Kyle Dearing

        Reading back through, you’re a hopeless defeatist Brian. No wonder you’re a hardline dem.

      • Kyle Dearing – Semper Fi, Brother.

        It just so happens that there IS a third party Presidential candidate with a plan to restore America to its Constitutional principles with one stroke of a pen.

        To date he has appeared as a guest on 71 talk radio shows and one nationally televised cable news program. Approximately 40 million people have heard his plan, which is the most powerful plan written in the last 100 years.

        Since you vote on principle, you will proud to vote for him.

        Check out:


      • Brian

        No, you were trying to pull the veteran card to put me in what you feel is my place. Answer the damn question. Do you want murderous theocrats who will be worse than Bush? I’d take Clinton any day over that.

      • Kyle Dearing

        Thanks for telling me what I was doing, so glad you straightened that out for me.

        And I’ve answered your question, you need to calm down and try to understand what I’m saying: I don’t want either. I will not be complicit to whatever outcome results from a Rep or a Dem in the presidency.

        Both parties have proven that they will lie for your vote, and then simply maintain the status quo we’ve been under for the past 30+ years. I vote out of principal and in hopes of changing that. It’s not going to happen in 2016, but I’m not nearly as short-sighted as you appear to be.

      • okieggma

        Just tear your voter card up then Kyle, because it is of no use to anyone. Being a Democrat is not for the faint of heart and we don’t need chicken hawks.

      • Kyle Dearing

        How “American” of you

      • okieggma

        or continue to vote Republican…..same thing.

      • Kyle Dearing

        Where did you draw the conclusion that I vote Republican? Please quote me.

      • Roshan

        Hard-core Clintonites aren’t responsible for drawing conclusions, only for preaching and smearing and complaining about being smeared.

      • Roshan

        Right, he never said that. You’re like one more poster child on this thread for why so many progressive Democrats say they won’t vote for Hillary Clinton. You don’t even pay attention to what other people are saying before you trash them for not basking in your sunlight that infuses the planet with with its holier-than-thou glow. Personally I’m farther left than most people here but I WILL vote for Clinton if I HAVE to in the final election, and it WILL be for those Supreme Court justices, and I will cringe thinking of the idiocy of people like you OVER and OVER mischaracterizing ANYONE who disagrees with you on this thread.

      • Grant Derderian

        Kyle. Oki, as is typical of most liberals, if you challenge them to an intellectual discussion, they usually can’t engage in that process and resort to calling people names. Sad but true.

      • Roshan

        Ugh. So many of your comments are so sanctimonious and gross. Also very aggressive with a self-congratulatory sense of yourself as a real sweetheart.

      • Chosun1

        So you just want a murderous tool of Saudi Arabia instead? Follow the money trail of the Clintons and it points to lots of very unsavoury sources. I’d take anyone other than Clinton any day. Maybe someone with a bit more integrity, like Jim Webb?

      • okieggma

        Baloney. Don’t know where you read or hear that crap but I have a couple of ideas.

      • Grant Derderian

        Brian. You make no sense. So, it’s ok for Obama to use drones to go after terrorists in turn killing innocent civilians, but it wasn’t ok for Gdub? Hillary as secretary of state had nothing to do with the decision making relating to our fight on terrorism, or the debacle in Benghazi. Give me a break.

      • Roshan

        Why shouldn’t a veteran be able to say they are one to provide a context about themselves when they were just accused of not voting–by you, and baselessly and contrary to what they just said? Then why shouldn’t the veteran not be dissed for being one? (Saying you don’t worship has an inherent diss. When did he ask you to worship him?) Yes, he insulted you but because you started off calling everyone who may ever not agree with you numbnuts. I am no doubt further left than most people on this thread but you exemplify a certain type of Dem–type being the correct word as shown by all the upvotes to your mean-spirited comment. You just “know”. You speak for everyone. Anyone who disagrees with you belongs to a general category of dumb people. If someone challenges you on that you will twist what they say to try to make it prove your point. And you’ll have no clue that you’re doing it. You embody very well why so many people don’t want to vote Hillary or even Democrat at all. You are the true justice fighter; therefore your inquisitions are totally justified because they are for the good of all those who “just don’t get it”.



        Share ›

      • Roshan

        Why shouldn’t a veteran be able to say he is one in order to provide a context when being accused (by you, on no grounds whatsoever, and contrary to what he implied) of refusing to vote? And then why shouldn’t a veteran, whether you do or don’t respect them more or less than anyone else, just not be dissed? When did he ask you to worship him? I am surely among the furthest Left people on this thread, and this is exactly the kind of stuff that gives me the heebie geebies about a certain type of Dem. ‘Type’ being the right word as shown by your mean-spirited irrational comment having 8 likes.

      • Roshan

        Why shouldn’t a veteran be able to say they are one to provide a context about themselves when they were just accused of not voting–by you, and baselessly and contrary to what they had said–of not voting? Then why shouldn’t the veteran not be dissed for being one? (Saying you don’t worship has an inherent diss. When did he ask you to worship him?) Yes, he called you a name but because you started off calling everyone who may ever not agree with you numbnuts. I am no doubt further left than most people on this thread but you exemplify a certain type of Dem–type being the correct word as shown by all the uproots to your mean-spirited comment. You just “know”. You speak for everyone. Anyone who disagrees with you belongs to a general category of “doesn’t get it” and is dumb. You embody very well why so many people don’t want to vote Hillary or even Democrat at all.

      • okieggma

        Agree Brian and they are the first to whine.

      • Antonio J. De Ridder-Vignone

        Um…excuse me sir, but have you ever traveled in France? Do you have many friends, rich, poor, and middle-class, who currently live there or have recently done so? I can honestly answer “yes” to both questions, so check this out. France has its problems just as the U.S. does, but it’s a pretty awesome country in every way. By global standards, it’s safe, prosperous, and powerful, AND it’s far more progressive than the U.S. in terms of health care and income distribution. Americans all across the spectrum need to quit dismissing what goes on in Europe (in France and in other countries) as irrelevant to the American situation. The solutions to many of our problems are to be found, already operating, within other industrialized nations. Do your research, shop around, and figure out what each country is best at. Then apply those methods here at home. As long as the general populace and our political representatives are too lazy to do that work and too egotistical to believe that other nations could know something the U.S. doesn’t, our position relative to the rest of the world will decline. Honestly, just stop being so ridiculously intellectually lazy.

      • Grant Derderian

        So, being stuck w/ left extremists in the white house iny better.

      • Suomy Nona

        THat our only option throwing away the vote, or not bothering to vote, It more Honorable than voting for a crook.
        Democrats need to get it through there heads Liberals don’t owe them shit,,,and Stop acting like we do…

        If the moderates had Voted for Nader, We wouldn’t never have had the fucking War in Iraq, Or the crash in 2008

      • Brian

        Gays are being thrown in jail, segregation is reinstated, the U.S. is at war with three countries, all because the tea party dominates the whole government, but at least you did the “honourable” thing, right? Your principals have helped turn the US into a third world democracy, but at least you voted third party. Feel good about yourself? I hope so, because I’d sure despise you.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        You need to check out Jill Stein. seriously. Try her out, let me know what you think

      • Suomy Nona

        Brian i hated you first believe me. LOL

        Do the right thing and nominate Sanders, If Hillary’s your candidate it will be your fault when you loss.
        DONT THROW your vote away by voting for someone that HAS NO CHANCE.

        This is a simple equation, Democrats will vote Democrat no matter who is the nominee
        but a liberal will never vote for Hillary,
        If you guys DO the right think just once in your life
        you will WIN, If you sell out the country you lose,

        Stop trying to convince people she is the only choose, she is “YOUR” choose and if you make it you’ve lost the election. You seem to know this already, EXCEPT DEFEAT AND GIVE SUPPORT TO SANDERS

      • Brian

        Sanders has no chance. None of you idiots addressed my points. Your pathetic idealism is unrealistic and will result in serious damage to the country just so you can feel good about voting for a socialist.

      • okieggma

        Nadar was NEVER going to win….do the math.

      • ccaffrey

        You really think this kind of response is helpful towards building cohesion to defeat the opposition? It is counterproductive towards building anything RESEMBLING a movement going forward!

      • okieggma

        If the Democrats lose in the next election you won’t need to worry about going forward…..the GOP won’t stop till we are back in the 3rd Century.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        lol fucking idiot

      • okieggma

        People who pout and just don’t vote should lose their voter registration card.

      • ccaffrey

        I think it would be smarter to allow the Repubs to face a potential third-party in the form of Tea Party candidates while progressive Dems and third party Green and Justice members hammer out a platform and dominate everything from precinct meetings to state conventions and delegates sent to State and National. Inform the Dems that they got it wrong that the Democratic Party shifted to the Right…just a large number of them stayed home (in case they didn’t get that from the last election). That is always stupid to stay home…but unless we define WHAT WILL get voters to the polls then they are left to their own assumptions (and the corporatists who help shape those). We are already fighting an uphill battle because of the 2010 midterms which was a redistricting year. In many ways that was even more important than the last two Presidential elections because, as we know (or should know) by now, the drawing of districts can well define who it is POSSIBLE to elect. not only at the federal level but at the state level (those who don’t think that states play major roles in shaping our lives are living under a rock! The Right knew that when they formed ALEC back in the 1970’s. As a matter of fact, much of what we are seeing today is the direct result of a LOT of strategic planning done by the Right in the 1970’s. Anyone think it’s an accident that Paul Weyrich, the John Bircher who formed ALEC, also co-founded the Moral Majority with Jerry Falwell — or that the Right invested huge money in buying up tv and radio stations, particularly in rural areas, to start dominating the news programs AND the Sunday programmmng?) NONE of this is accidental! So, we’ve got some really good cross-collaboration and activism across “issue silos” right now…and we HAVE to consolidate platforms now, and strengthen those leading up to 2020 (Presidential AND redistricting year). The best movement I’ve seen of late doing that is the Forward Together/Moral Mondays Movement out of NC (please nobody get twisted thinking this is a religious movement). It is one of the smartest, diverse, cross-issues justice movements I’ve seen since the Civil Rights movement — and actually broadens that. They do not “party affiliate” which is smart in several ways. They get to challenge both parties on their positions; and it allows broad participation from non-profits and progressive faith groups on ISSUES without violating non-profit status). It also encourages and respects people not of faith traditions and really the term “moral” is used in the broadest sense of justice and human rights and the broader values of “right and wrong” which shape our society. This is in the tradition of the Civil Rights movement. For smart community organizing across diverse groups and issues at the state level, I haven’t seen anything better–and they’ve been working at this for 7-8 years! They have had over 1000 people participate in civil disobedience actions (across all age groups too), they get educated, and support one another, on all issues, and their last two marches on Raleigh have had between 50,000 – 80,000 participants! They have strong ties to the NAACP and also have a dedicated legal team working on court challenges. If you are not familiar with them, look them up. THAT is the kind of movement building that changes candidates and platforms! Other states have started them too and students are actively engaged as well–in Georgia, young people organized a voter registration drive that netted 85,000 new registrations! Ok, that’s my pitch for where I think we really need to be vesting time and energy–in it for the long haul, not just limping along from election to election.

      • ccaffrey

        And let me add that a key element of any platform has to be supporrt for Constitutional Conventions to 1) overturn Citizens’ United and McCutcheon and 2) establish mechanisms for publicly funded elections. Yep, the big stuff.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        Jill Stein

      • okieggma

        Good lord she ran on the Green party….how is she doing as President?

      • Cemetery Girl

        Why would it be illegal for someone other than a democrat or a republic to be president?

      • Brian

        I didn’t say illegal. I said legally impossible. Some states don’t even accept third party candidates without approval from the Republica/Democrat ruled state congress. Good luck with that.

      • Cemetery Girl

        Ah, I forgot about those states. (I live in a state that allows third party.) That is a difficulty that shouldn’t even be allowed.

      • redgeek

        False. They may have high entry barriers (number of signatures and time in which to get them). But a political test is outright unconstitutional.

      • Kendon Smith

        Aka tyranny

      • okieggma

        We don’t even have write in rights here in Oklahoma.

      • Grant Derderian

        Man. Reading these posts is really scary. You so called progressives have some serious anger issues. It’s really comical, or should I say sad, how you try and label Republicans extremists and then comport yourselves in the exact manner in which you criticize. Hillary’s bad enough on her own, but when you mix in Slick Willy, you might has well just put a fork in her. She’s got no shot.

      • johnnyboyjohn

        LOL, scared much? Everyone knows HRC is going to win, the election is just a formality.

      • Grant Derderian

        The only thing that scares me, as does the rest of the country, is another potential of 4-8 years of promoting Govco as the answer to everything. All that does is create more takers than makers in this country and we seen how that has worked over the past 8 years. Also, the schism that exists between the races grows further and further with these so-callled uniters. You should be scared too…

      • DoesItReallyMatterAnyway

        The schism that exist between races can be fixed easily. Stop making excuses for murder.

      • Grant Derderian


      • okieggma

        I don’t know what he means either.

      • johnnyboyjohn

        Not nearly as scared as I am of ANY republican leader sitting in the white house. I’ve already lived through what that meant with GWB.

      • strayaway

        I like your term and concept of “Govco” because a corporatist state run by oligarchs is where we are headed and will continue to go under Hillary or Jeb. Meanwhile let’s make believe that Hillary showing up at Chipotle yesterday as “everywoman” wasn’t a scripted event and that students locked down at Kirkland College during Hillary’s visit today wasn’t a foreshadowing of things to come.

      • okieggma

        So who did the dividing? Tea baggers with their ridiculous placards showing the president as an African Shaman? Mitch McConnell holding secret meetings plotting to “get that black man out of our white house” or perhaps all the dog whistle politics the GOP has used to try and discredit the president….it is the GOP that scares me

      • Grant Derderian

        it’s sad that you keep referring to the President as the black man. Race has nothing to do with it. We don’t criicize the man because he’s black, we criticize him because disagree with most of his policies and his politics. It is typical of many of the Presidents supporters who can’t argue the politics of the President, so they resort to bringing race into the discussion. Very sad.

      • okieggma

        I refer to him that way Grant because that is how your party see’s him. You did not refute any of the points I made about the GOP and the tea baggers.

      • Grant Derderian

        First, your generalizations relating to the Republicans and Tea Party members is false. I am a Republican and I have no issues with any politicians race. As for Mitch McConnell’s secret meetings, if they’re secret, how do you know about them? Dog whistle politics? What does that even mean? If you provide an arguement based on facts and logic and not innuendo, I would be happy to refute them. All your doing is calling people names and that doesn’t merit any further discussion. Enjoy your parting gifts.

      • okieggma


      • Suomy Nona

        They cant get on the Ballet.

      • sam k

        When a third party rises in votes is that the conversations will widen and not be narrowed as we all know they have. it will force the major parties to address the systemic problems that make a destructive two party system prosper. dont be so damn shortsighted people. on all sides. We can help our kids and grandkids by making the two partys anwser the questions and solve the problems that we are blindly leaving to future generations to undo. Campaign finance is out of control on both sides. A incredibly low standard to the nations press, which both parties have continuously kept them in power and kept us from knowing a stronger truth. many important truths are covered up by the government. this stuff is not conspiracy theory just the normal way those in power keep it. Both parties have strengths and weaknesses and until we listen and help raise the standard of these politicians nothing will change. a major way to do this is build enough non two party support (votes) from both sides to scare them into addressing the system itself which makes people stupid and angry instead of atleast smart and angry which atleast allows for a chance at problem solving.regardless who you vote for,
        “if the mind don’t grow, and the poverty line don’t go, But the dope keep coming and the t-v keep flashing images of a sports car
        Then you bound for a coke war
        The meek get clowned by the cope law
        The sheep get drowned in the folklore
        Then lulled to sleep by tom brokaw”

      • sam k

        tell me with evidence why im wrong if you think so.

      • Corey Hanson

        Keep doing your thing sam k to change the two party paradigm sam k. We shouldn’t be motivated by fear, but a genuine loving interest to change society for the better. And everyone please keep in mind that even more important than the elections, the most important vote you can cast is the vote you spend with your dollar. Do what you can to support local business and prevent wealth from trickling up, helping to promote social equality while also contributing to more long term environmental stability.

      • Brian

        Address the point. You are throwing away your vote so you can feel good about yourself. The US is in legitimate dangerdanger of being taken over by theocratic extremists. You’re sitting there saying “WELL I HAVE PRINCIPLES SO I WON’T VOTE FOR THE PERSON WHO ACTUALLY HAS A CHANCE!” Fuck you. You’re an idiot.
        It’s been two parties for a century and you won’t change that by being edgy. Make the best of what you have.

      • sam k

        i am voting that way so i can help change the policies i care about. I think we are more in danger of losing the very process that allows for change. The principles of democracy and a more transparent government (press) are important not idiotic. democracts and republicans both dont clearly address these issues. they do what they can to get elected. candidates in both parties constantly change their “principles” when it means they can get elected. this is why its not a throw away vote. they will react to the election results, polls and too the lost votes and change their policies to get those votes and in doing so make improvements. My thinking is a longterm mentality and has little to do with feeling good about yourself but actually biting the bullit for improving the very system that doesn’t allow change. theocratic extremists are dying off statistically. look at the religion trends in america. 50-100 years from now religion will be much lower in the U.S and that wont be taking over. The U.S is not is danger of being taken over by that. Its scary i know. I know your scared. I think we need to be edgy. Edgy means being at the forefront of this very important trend. The trend is to denounce the two parties. Their is a reason Ron Paul got so many votes from the youth and it’s not just because legal pot. I was at obamas inauguration and I very far left wing but I cant see the system completely lost in money and government filtering info so my vote really means nothing later on.

      • okieggma

        How you going to change things by never getting into office? answer me that.

      • Suomy Nona

        we are all voting for that. some of us understand that the Hillary is not the answer,
        I can convince some conservative independence to give Sanders a chance, The Liberals support him

        DEMECRATS vote DEMECRAT no matter who is nominated.

        Riddle me this batman,
        Who voted for the defense of marriage act?
        Who repealed Glass-Stegall ?
        who is supporting TPP ?
        who was a lobbyist and CEO for Walmart ?
        who supported the WAR IN IRAG??
        who supported the philosophy “too big to fail”

        who took millions of dollars from foreign nations and lied about it,
        and now, whose, fanatical loons are resorting to fox style fear mongering to try to bully people who disagree with them.

      • sam k

        i like the fact that you call me out on this though Brian because I know you care about the wellbeing of the oppressed people and I do respect the hell out of that. I just dont think our voting system is the best way of changing those things. Indiana law happened under Obama . Not to say Obama is at all to blame but communities will do what they do. they are getting less extreme and more “accepting” in the trends so it sucks now but will get better. as education continues to reach people about social oppression and the effects it has on people we will get better as a country on this. i love you Brian and i appreciate your criticism. you might be right but I need to think and research lots more before our election.

      • Sam K, this comment made my day. Thanks for being you.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        Jill Stein

      • Christopher John Pasch

        Democracy is not about voting who has a higher chance of getting elected. Your honestly to afraid to vote for the better of the country in case of failure. That is a throw away vote.

      • Suomy Nona

        what do you think of Sanders???

      • Malcolm Hume

        So if we have a third party, what happens when an extreme right wing
        president gets elected by fifteen percent of the country? People need to
        think this through.A presidential system CANT have three parties or you end up with fascists in power.

      • sam k

        you have a point. and that fear is what will never change anything. but damn it you have a point. digression in meaningful areas would happen given a extreme right wing canidate. how do you think we can address systemic problems with the process like campaign finance? that both parties will agree on. because its not even a democracy with all the money in it. and maybe thats ok to you. but will it when your side isnt looking so good and cant buy an election becouse of big business being behind the conservatives?

      • Christopher John Pasch

        ? do you even logic?

      • okieggma

        Brian is correct.

      • Malcolm Hume

        So if we have a third party, what happens when an extreme right wing president gets elected by fifteen percent of the country? People need to think this through.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        we have a system of checks and balances. A far right government will probably drive us to revolution. So maybe itd be for the better.

      • okieggma

        Ahh, so you are a tea party advocate….no thanks.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        no, I am Green Party, with communist leanings.

      • okieggma

        I don’t want anything to do with a revolution….I have too many grandchildren and great grandchildren to even think about shedding blood…..nope, nada, not for me. I will take Hillary.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        I didnt say bloody revolution. Voting Hillary is has bad as voting for a moderate Republican. Democrats are conservatives under the guise of progressive ideologies. If you want a government that listens to the people, then we have to exercise our right to peaceful change via democracy. Vote for the future not for the present.

      • okieggma

        I don’t happen to agree with you. It is time and we will have Hillary, she is eminently qualified .

      • Suomy Nona

        she isnt going to win,,,Your splitting your votes here, you understand that right??
        Give Sanders a shot, or you really have no chance

      • okieggma

        Nope. Been waiting 20 years , you split your vote if you like but not me. I am staying with the winner.

      • Suomy Nona

        What do you think about Sanders,

      • Suomy Nona

        Hillary isnt going to win,
        You have a choice on who you nominate, and if the democrats nominate her, that says a lot

        There is no logical strategy in nominating her, your splitting your vote in half,
        Democrats will vote democrat no matter who is nominated, Liberals will not vote for Hillary,

        If your saying you support Hillary then there is no point in arguing,
        If your trying to argue your voting for the lesser of two evils your lieing because you nominated her.

        You may not be to the point where your ready for a revolution, but many people are, the country is not like it was when you were younger,

        It really has gotten that bad for many of us,

        Allowing the Democrats and Republicans to continue with politics as usual is not an option. Refusing to CHANGE, because your old and leaving the earth soon is selfish.
        We need your help,

      • okieggma

        I don’t know what kind of culture you are from Suomy but we don’t talk like that here. I have been on the forefront of many social battles over the years starting with civil rights in the 1950’s… don’t talk down to me.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        No. I am a member of the Green Party. Although, I have communist leanings. Not at all Tea Party. lol. The closest I come to libertarianism is that I believe anarcho-communalism to be the ideal socio-economic “structure”. That, however, is not practical or realistic. So, I have hope that a government can be functional, but requires, in a democratic system, for citizens and politicians to be informed and honest. Voting to a rigged system is neither of those things.

      • okieggma

        These people are not thinking…..actually think they are trolls.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        Republican party was once a Third Party. Stop being afraid and vote how you want. Its a BS fear tactic the Dems/Repubs have to keep the status quo.

    • Mr President Sir!

      I am tired of it to! However it is reality and must be accepted as such. Either you get on one boat or the other or you waste your potential and stay on the shore. That is just the way it is until it changes.

      • Timothy Palmer

        Agreed. Staying on the shore might save someone from the sinking ship, but it sure won’t save you from the on-rushing tsunami.

      • strayaway

        It’s interesting to see progressives expending their energy shoring up a warmongering crook when they could instead be doing everything possible NOW to get Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, or someone else to represent the Democratic Party. This discussion should be reserved until the general election. If after Hillary beats progressive candidates in the Democratic primary, then there is always the option of voting for Hillary as the possible lesser of two evils.

      • androphiles

        The “possible” lesser of two evils? It’s not just a possibility; it’s an inescapable reality.

      • strayaway

        Think about the meaning of the word “evil”. You are condoning evil. I tend to vote third party rather than give a mandate to evil.

      • androphiles

        You’d do just as much good by not voting at all. The reality is, nobody pays any attention to any votes except those for the main parties. You’re not making a statement by voting third-party; you’re being ignored. If it makes you feel good though, throw your vote away. It’s a free country.

      • strayaway

        I realize that voting third party counts about the same as not voting but still think it better than providing a mandate for evil or at least the continued misdirection of the Country. Also, there are instances of third parties bringing something into the mainstream that the two parties ignore. Perot, for instance, brought his charts about government debt into the conversation. He was marginalized but at least federal deficits were brought under control briefly after Perot mad it an issue.

      • androphiles

        That’s all very well. Vote as you will. I’m more interested in preventing the accession to power of a president who believes my sexuality disqualifies me from equality under the law. Maybe if you felt a little more personally threatened you’d see things differently.

      • strayaway

        I do feel threatened with the gradual loss of liberty in general under both Bush or Obama. I expect more of the same from both Jeb and Hillary. The wars, the debts, the destruction of our privacy are something that should concern you too and could be weighed against your focus on your sexuality. Once the privacy thing goes down, our proclivities will be laid bare and you will be totally dependent on the good will of all future leaders. Good luck with that.

      • androphiles

        Perhaps if you were reading with an open mind instead of from the vantage point of your preformed opinion you’d have realized from what I said that it’s not my sexuality I’m focused on, but the response to it from Republicans as a party. Putting that aside, you’ve made my point for me. When you expect essentially the same from both sides, it becomes prudent to examine what differences remain. There’s not a single likely or declared Republican candidate who isn’t against equal rights for me and my kind. Hillary, on the other hand, believes in equality for all. Evidently that’s not enough of a difference for you. It is for me, and I’m not alone.

      • strayaway

        Andro, You have managed to mention your sexuality more than I mentioned the Constitution. Well done! I just have other issues besides your sexuality. The two parties seem to agree on the big status quo issues like involving the expanding corporate/police/warfare state and then try to get us to focus instead on school prayers, your sexuality, abortions and other bits and pieces they don’t care about. Sounds like you’ve taken the bait.

        Hillary “paid women in her office 72 cents for each dollar paid to men. The report found the median annual salary for female staffers was $15,708.38 less than the median salary for men between 2002 and 2008, a gender gap of 28 percent.” -Washington Times She sent her daughter to a private school now costing about $30,000/year instead of the public school the Carters sent their daughter to In Washington. Hillary accepted $7M from Saudi interests who won’t even let their burqa covered women drive cars. Hillary is worth approximately $13M and her largest source of income last year was from Abu Dhabi. I don’t see her sharing all that Arab money. I’m not as convinced as you that Hillary is at all about equality.

      • androphiles

        Interesting that you seem more fixated on my sexuality than I am, even to the point of counting how many times I’ve mentioned it. I really don’t care what you’re convinced of. I’ve made my point. Either you got it or you didn’t. I don’t have anything more to say, nor any more time to spend on you.

      • strayaway

        Actually, you brought your subject up claiming, “I’m more interested in preventing the accession to power of a president who believes my sexuality disqualifies me from equality under the law.” I was trying to point out that for myself alt least there are other things to consider when voting than your apparent narcism.

      • Guest

        You obviously mean “narcissism,” but you’re wrong anyway.

      • strayaway

        Thank you for the spelling correction.

      • Suomy Nona

        Its odd to me to see homosexuals supporting the wife of the man that banned gay marriage in the first place especially considering we have an alternative chioce They are playing you man,,wake-up,

      • androphiles

        If I thought Mrs. Clinton couldn’t think for herself I wouldn’t consider supporting her; but she’s her own boss, and Bill Clinton later changed his mind anyway. Nobody who’s running for nomination had anything to do with the DOMA, so it’s irrelevant anyway.

      • Suomy Nona

        Never-mind im done with this discussion, If you dont have a problem supporting someone who voted to invade a foreign country, your a sorry shit

        I was under the false impression that you were a good man who was uninformed, but i see now your not

        Pretend her and Clinton arnt partners, If it allows you to justify what they did so you can sleep at night. Im one of the ones that got screwed by their shit
        but thats got nothing to do with the decisions she made independently of him.

        He didn’t vote for the Irac war, or the patriot act, and he didnt help cut the Unions,,,

        Dont be a liar about who you really are or what your responsible for,
        You people are discussing sick fucks, STOP USING MY TAX MONEY TO KILL PEOPLE

      • Suomy Nona

        Who signed the defense of marriage act,, i cant remember, can you look it up online and get back to me???

        Sanders is the only chioce

      • androphiles

        I could look it up if it were relevant to this discussion, but it’s not. Thanks for sharing your personal opinion.

      • Suomy Nona

        ah so gay right dont matter to you???? weather your gay or not it should

        Bill Clinton Banned Gay marriage is the point,

      • Suomy Nona

        can i ask you, whats your problem with Sanders,

      • androphiles

        What makes you think I have a problem with him? I don’t. I don’t have to dislike him to like Hillary. Please stop making assumptions. I already told you I might end up voting for him, but that as of right now I prefer Hillary. Good night.

      • Suomy Nona

        to big to fail is not equality for all

      • Suomy Nona

        Im not interested in helping you if your not interested in helping me,,,

      • Suomy Nona

        You lazy Hypocrite, stop saying people throw their votes away, something has to chance

        Things have gotten worse than you realize i suspect,
        Your generation has been Lazy about politics, and have left us with shit. ….

        WE throw are votes away because of you, always voting for your party no matter what they do…

        WE need your help, not your condemnation, You were the generation in charge and look at the mess youve left us,,,Lazy in politics and selfish, always voting for the easiest choose and condemning people who wont,

      • androphiles

        All you have is suspicions and accusations. If you’re so sure what’s wrong, do something about it. I’m not telling anyone what to do, other than vote your conscience.

      • Suomy Nona

        Your condemning this person for refusing to support Hillary, I wont either because she no better than a Republican,,,
        ask yourself what important a see if Hillary is who you want
        Did you support the Irac war? Hillary and the GOP did
        Did you support the Bailout? Hillary and the Gop did
        Did you support repealing GLass-Stegal? Hillary and the GOP did
        Do you support gay marriage? Clintons and the GOP outlawed it
        (defense if marriage act)
        Do you support the Unions? Hillary while on the boeard of directors for Walmart didnt
        Do you support the Patriot act? Hillary and the GOP do
        Do you support TO big to Fail? The Clinton’s and the GOP DO

        PLs someone explain what makes Hillary diffrent from the GOP..

        Sanders is the only chance to save this country but we will all have to support him even after hes elected…

        Hes asking for our help as president, to wage against the GOP for real,,Its not going to be the easiest choose, thats Hillary, but its the right choose, and if we stick with him even after hes elected we can make real change for once.

      • androphiles

        Nona, I don’t know what’s moved you to start posting again after a month. This is your fourth one today. You keep posting the same thing. Well, I have nothing more to add to what I’ve already said. I’m through wasting time on you.

      • Suomy Nona

        yeah your a fuckin waist, Right wing asshole,
        I know what your about now,,,

      • androphiles

        I already gave you one answer. She’s as pro-gay as Bernie Sanders. That’s important to me. I’m a senior citizen, Vietnam Vet, liberal gay man, and I like Hillary Clinton’s political positions. You don’t. You’ve made yourself eminently clear, and if you were even one-half as good at carrying on a discussion as you are at calling names and putting people who disagree with you down it would be worth my time to stick around here, but you’re not, so it isn’t. I’ve said all I have to say to you and I’ve heard ad nauseam everything you have to say. I give you my word, this is the last post you’re getting from me. Fuck off.

      • Suomy Nona

        You fuck of Stop harassing this guy for not voting for Hillary

        I like that statement though,, Im voting for Hillary because shes as “pro-gay as Bernie”

        But she voted for the Irac, and if you supported that your a dumb prick who doesn’t matter. so

      • Suomy Nona

        youd never hear Bernie Sander say those words

      • Suomy Nona

        I just re-found this site

      • el duderino

        try this on for size: a nader voter in 2000 helped kill thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of iraqis. a vote for any third party candidate will kill thousands of american women because abortion will again be illegal and done in back alleys. that’s what’s up for grabs. be an adult and take your head out of your behind.

      • strayaway

        Try this one on for size: Senator Hillary Clinton was an avid supporter of the Iraq war and voted to let Bush decide whether to go to war . As wife, Hillary supported bombing our ally Serbia, As Senator, she unfailingly supported the Iraq war. As secretary of State, Hillary promoted the bombing of Libya and Syria and accepted $8.3m from a Ukraine oligarch for her foundation. She helped rekindle the cold war. Again, Obama bombed 7 countries. I feel ok about voting for Nader. He wasn’t a hawk like most of the leadership in the republican and democratic parties. He also managed to successfully promote dual braking systems which I much appreciate and saves lives.

        I doubt that Roe vs. Wade will be reversed under a Republican president. It survived both Bush’s. The liberal sacrament of abortion seems safe.

        Also, It is unlikely that the voters right act, Social Security, and other objects of liberal fear mongering will be reversed.

        Koch brothers, it’s Bush’s fault, and “because he’s black” are cliches. However, if you combine them in one sentence, other liberals will admire you. The US Chamber of Commerce agenda is probably much more important than that of the Koch brothers if you want to be more relevant.

      • el duderino

        you forgot BEN GAAAAH ZEEEEE. ok. I see what you’re doing there. your knee jerk regurgitation of faux news talking points and demonization of the word liberal gives you away as a repuke shill. the spoiler thing wont work, and here’s why: arithmetic. both bushes didn’t have majorities in congress. with the senate threatening removing the cloture rule, the fully koch owned government WILL implement their publicly acknowledged agenda. we WILL become a theocratic hellhole. women WILL be put back into the 18th century, the new deal WILL be repealed, voting rights WILL be rolled back to preserve the majorities in both houses, the books WILL be cooked, the 1% WILL own everything, and cops WILL continue to kill whoever they want without consequence. In 100 years, the whole thing will explode in an orgy of violence that will make the french revolution look like a tupperware party. I know hillary is a compromised nasty beeyotch, but she’s our nasty beeyotch. the left today needs somebody who is a junkyard dog, like LBJ. hillary comes close. thank you obama for finding your nutsack in your second term. maybe we’ll push back the night a little more before you run out of time…

      • strayaway

        First, i read more about Fox News in this thread than elsewhere. Some of you progressives must spend lot of time watching Fox. I hardly ever watch TV and start my news day with BBC News. So you are offf to a bad start guessing.

        No, I didn’t forget about Benghazi and think many Republicans are wrong to focus on Benghazi because Benghazi was just one of many manifestations of horrible foreign policy in Libya. The successor government in Libya was unable to control the Country which, in turn, led to incidents like Benghazi, Al Queda making off with state of the art US surface to air missiles in Libya, the Islamist takeover of northern Mali, the persecution of sub-Saharan Africans in Libya, and recent IS training grounds operating in Libya. I suspect the reason Republicans focus on Benghazi is because of Hillary’s alleged involvement and their own support of the Obama/Hillary campaign against Khaddafi.

        i think your list of fear mongering fantasies are as removed from reality as your second guessing of me and your understanding of the president’s unconstitutional executive ordered war against Libya.

      • el duderino

        What fear mongering? It is the loony right’s public platform. You think the immigrant amnesty resistance thing is about jobs? Get real. It is about votes.

      • strayaway

        See your previous post for fear mongering. The resistance to illegal alien amnesty (Note: Were Mohammed Atta and most of his crews “Immigrants” or “illegal aliens” who had overstayed their visas? Correct terminology allows clearer thinking) has to do with a number of things including: taking US jobs, reducing wages, provide a more profitable work force for their employers, taking away social welfare benefits from finite funds, crime, cultural changes, language problems, drugs, gangs, destruction of a green ethos,and yes changing voting patterns to assure the fore mentioned.

      • el duderino

        I see you’ve acquired a taste for the kool-ade. it’s just sugar and paint. what a product is being sold as and what it really is can be quite different. you think koch et al cares one bit about the american worker? the lower the wages, the better for them. crime does not touch them. the only real issue is brown votes. it’s being sold as culture war.

      • strayaway

        I see you have fallen back on lame liberal cliches. Your Koch brothers mention is insipid; a liberal poster’s version of a death rattle when thy have nothing more constructive than cliches to add to a conversation. i suggest replacing Koch brothers, as your default bogieman, with the US Chamber of Commerce’s agenda supported by both the Democratic and Republican establishments. As much as you despise the Koch brothers, have you encouraged any Koch employees to quit their jobs or invested in a progressive owned business that Koch competes with? Perhaps you could make some suggestions here about which products to substitute for Georgia Pacific, Northern and Angel Soft tissue, Lycra and other products owned by the Kochs. That might be a better way to combat the Koch brothers than to bring it into this conversation.

      • el duderino

        there’s something you continue to persistently miss: the koch’s and the chamber of commerce and wall street and all those lovely beneficiaries of citizens united have an enormous clout right now. They can buy media to convince joe dumf*ck to vote against their own interest: economic, social, moral and legal. hillary, as compromised as she is, and I’m not contesting that, will sell the people out. that’s a given. The only issue is to degree. the less or non-compromised candidates like warren or sanders or god help us, ron paul are unelectable because they cannot marshall the cash needed to buy joe dumf*ck’s attention long enough for his beer befogged mind to vote for his own interest. at the end of the day, will hillary sell us out MORE than jeb? no, i think not.

        another thing you don’t seem to get is the manchurian candidate dynamic in the primary/general election process. during the primary, the candidates of the GOP pander to the lunatic fringe right, and then jibe to the center for the general election. if they went too far during the primary, they become unelectable. see romney. the other party (there are only two) does the opposite. they come off as raging commies during the primary, and during the general election, tack center. Hillary has been running for president since bill left office, shoring up her ‘centrist’ cred so she’s electable, doing some pretty nasty stuff in the process. Once in office, she’ll safeguard her place in history right next to FDR; the GOP knows this, which is why they are apoplectic with fear.

      • strayaway

        I actually agree with much of what you wrote although I would balance off the Koch Brothers with George Soros and focus more on the agenda of the US Chamber of Commerce that is followed by the establishments of both parties. Tom Donohue is the present head of the US Chamber. He seems, as much as anyone, to be a spokesperson for the 1%’s interests and what is called dark government. I support Obama opening up relations with Cuba but about one month before that Obama Initiative, Tom Donohue was making the rounds in Cuba himself. I can’t prove a relationship but the timing between Donohue’s visit and Obama’s initiative was remarkable. In 2014, Donohue said that if the Republicans didn’t change their immigration policies then they “shouldn’t bother to run a candidate in 2016”. Cheap labor is so useful for corporate profits. Today, I read that Dick Morris is claiming that the president’s secretive TPP initiative includes “open borders” perhaps like between EU nations. Bye bye middle class and unions.

        I am not an FDR fan so suggesting that although Hillary would be an unsavory crook, she would at least try to gain a place in history with FDR doesn’t impress me. Besides, you haven’t explained how Hillary would change her stripes.

      • el duderino

        I actually like George Soros. He’s outrageously pro liberty, although he is also an internationalist; Met him once, although he wouldn’t remember me, and he is not an a$$hole like you’d think. He’s not a great fan of the national security state, hates war and state force, and he puts his money behind liberty, not fascism. He is in no way comparable to the Koch brothers.
        Hillary is bought and paid for; she has to be to play with the big dogs. I don’t think she’s an honest politician: she won’t stay bought. She uniquely knows, from her time on the sidelines in the white house, what the judgement of history means. the clinton years were the most prosperous in a generation for the most americans, and she needs to add to that. that means rebuilding the middle class, something the GOP simply won’t do. She must claw back some of the gains of the 1%, and that’s going to be resisted tooth and nail. Failure in that means personal ignominy, something the Bush family doesn’t fear. They wallow in it proudly.

      • strayaway

        You have an interesting spin on Soros. I’ve thought of him as being astute, of high intelligence, an opportunist, but always with an eye on the big government fix not something I equate with liberty. I see corporatism, which I equate with either the Kochs or Soros as being the same as ‘economic fascism’. I am careful to use the adjective ‘economic’ because the word fascism is too broad and can mean everything from economic fascism to death camps. Economic fascism is always a prerequisite to broader fascism but does not always lead to it. Roosevelt, for instance, was a corporatist but did not lead us to any broader version of fascism. I have no reason to believe that Hillary will change her spots as you seem to. It’s a matter of belief. We’ll see what happens but I’m sort of an atheist on this matter.

      • el duderino

        fair enough. given that one of the two crooks will be elected in 2016, I will hafta hold my nose and vote for the crook that makes the least objectionable noises. I sincerely hope that the nasty skank won’t disappoint my highest hopes for her, which admittedly aren’t very high. obama has been a great disappointment. Maybe he’ll redeem himself (partially) at the last minute on the way out the door and pardon snowdon and manning. maybe even peltier, hope springs eternal.

      • strayaway

        When asked what he liked the most about Obama, Jeb said he most liked Obama’s support of the NSA. I don’t think Jeb will give Snowden a pass either.

      • Suomy Nona

        the fact that you think Hillary is Center says it all…I bet you think your liberal..

      • JD Mulvey

        Thanks for sharing, Republican troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        Man your retarded, your the one talking about voting for an EX-Republican,,,MY god

        Hillary-voted for the Irac war, Voted for the Patriot act, helped Gut the Unions while on the board of directors for Walmart

        Sound like shes still a Republican to me

        As a Progressive Im voting to Nominate Sanders, As an Educated voter I understand that Hillary is more Republican than Democrat

        If the Race comes down to her or a Republican i dont give a fuck who wins and if I don’t educate people about her history, she will win the Nomination

        Because they arnt educating themselves…

        Im not a god damn Troll for telling you the truth,
        I fucking voted for Bill his first time running, but he was a crook.
        If you can support Hillary knowing her History your pretty right of center yourself.

        Im Nominating Sanders becasue hes a real progressive not a cooperate democrat.

        If we can educate enough people about whats really going on we have a change for real change in this country

        But treating politics like a football game is destroying this country,,

        If her policies are no different than a republican why does it matter what party shes in???

      • Suomy Nona

        2Voted for the PAtriot act
        3)Voted for the Bailout
        4) Opposed Gay marrage
        5)fought to lower pay and breakup unions while on the boar of directors for Walmart
        6)support Fracking
        7) supports TPP
        8)support to big to fail
        9)opposed Clemensy for Chelsey Manning,(Since you are cluesless thats the person who told america we we tourturing people 35yr in prison)
        (How BOut YOU Teresa are you that clueless? or just a right winged Hypocrite)

      • Suomy Nona

        hillary Clinton

        2Voted for the PAtriot act
        3)Voted for the Bailout
        4) Opposed Gay marrage
        5)fought to lower pay and breakup unions while on the boar of directors for Walmart
        6)support Fracking
        7) supports TPP
        8)support to big to fail
        9)opposed Clemensy for Chelsey Manning,(Since you are cluesless thats the person who told america we we tourturing people 35yr in prison)
        (How BOut YOU Teresa are you that clueless? or just a right winged Hypocrite)

      • Suomy Nona

        Considering the way you people are supporting Hillary, it makes sense.
        At least the Koch brother got their dog Hillary to address mass incarceration

      • XanderX14

        I know I’m late to this
        party but it really needs to be said: *you ‘re, not your, when you mean
        “you are.” You should get that right before calling others a
        dumbass or join the Teabaggers, they will support your lack of education and
        spelling errors so you would be voting your own interests on those matters.

      • Daryl Basarab

        Rand Paul is better on foreign policy than Clinton. He opposed Libya and Syria intervention. He also opposed the Iraq war. If it’s Paul vs. Clinton, I’ll support Paul.

      • Suomy Nona

        You brought up the Irac War, idiot,, who was the one fear mongering,,,
        and he is right to say Hillary supported the War

      • Suomy Nona

        take a look at Hillary her record sure is alot like the GOP..

        Sanders is running so now you dont have an excuse,
        If your still voting for Hillary its because you actually a right wing prick
        except for that one issue just admit it and stop acting other wise

      • JD Mulvey

        Thanks for sharing … Republican troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        This entire article is Fear Mongering, what are you talking about.. Vote for Hillary of the Republicans will destroy this country

      • Suomy Nona

        Their not progressives, their demcrats, the purpose if Hillary is to allow greedy ahole to have a candidate that makes them feel liberal… without actually having to support a progressive platform..

        If the Republicans can be homophobic and racist enough,, then they can vote for right wing a holes like the Clinton and still feel Progressive

      • Suomy Nona

        Hillary is no liberal,, and she did vote for the Irac War and would have invaded if she had been in office

        Nominate Sanders or the Democrats will lose,,Stop crying about it thats just they way it is…

      • Nesdon

        What you miss, Strayaway is that we are herein electing a president not an emperor. They are one person in an enormous system loaded with checks and balances, and built from deeply entrenched cultural norms of racism, sexism and imperialism.

        I absolutely guarantee that Nader would have fallen prey to the same painful compromises that have lead leftist idealists to pile on blame and undermine every progressive president in the last 100 years.

        Make Bernie Sanders commander in chief and sit him down in daily security briefings with the nuclear football chained to one of his detail, and I guarantee he will disappoint pacifist ideologues, among which must count myself. Sadly, our idealism as progressives condemns us with the curse of the perfect defeating the good.

      • strayaway

        I disagree. Rep. Kucinich, for instance, saw through the Bush lies about Iraq and did not vote to give Bush the power to declare war on Iraq. Senator Clinton, on the other hand didn’t. i strongly suspect that Nader was cut from the same cloth as Kucinich.

      • el duderino

        who gives a crap? all these guys are and were and will be completely unelectable. give em a billion dollars out of your personal fortune, and maybe we have something to talk about.

      • strayaway

        I dropped out a long time ago when it comes to mustering enthusiasm or garnering support to enable these puppets.

      • Suomy Nona

        That Absurd, Their not electable because you guys wont vote for them

      • Suomy Nona

        All I got out of that is don’t bother to vote, So If Hillary get the Nomination I wont,,,

        Good luck winning with that attitude, This election will be 2000 all over again,, The Democrats ignoring the left then crying like babies when they Lose.

        PLs don’t cry when you lose

      • Suomy Nona

        dont bother, these guys are as full of shit as the GOP..Remember to a democrat and Republican this is more of a football game than anything else.. there is no rational or any real desire to address the issues, IT just about who wins or loses..

        Thats why he cant see that Hillary is no different from the Republicans
        Because to him she is, the important thing is the team shes playing for,

        Help to Nominate Sanders, If Hillary wins he nomination the democrats lost the election themselves

      • JD Mulvey

        Republican troll

      • Suomy Nona

        LOL yeah everyone can see Im a republican troll,
        Dint you know all the Republicans are secretly supporting Sanders

      • JD Mulvey

        They’re terrified of Hillary Clinton. Plus they can’t seem to manage the English language.

        That adds up to you, Republican troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        Their more terrified of Sanders believe me. As far as the English language your no better, but at least I understand politics

      • JD Mulvey

        All the hallmarks of a Republican troll: transparent agenda, unjustifiable delusions of superiority, atrocious spelling, near-total inability to use an apostrophe correctly, and complete failure at recognizing when the world is laughing at his expense. Yup, Republican troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        WOW the whole world???

        Ok, again that’s why your voting for Hillary, because you ignore issues.

        Thanks for the conversation, I will be posting this to my gmail account so others can see what Hillary supporters are about

        Lol, ask them to talk about the issues and they’ll resort to common insults. I wonder what kind of people typically do that?

      • JD Mulvey

        You truly are an ignorant and insane asshole. Please go ahead and post to whoever is unlucky enough to receive your “gmail account” (whatever the fuck that means). Be sure to post the thread in its entirety, k? Oh hell, we both know you won’t do that, but it doesn’t matter. Anybody who gets insane emails from you must already know what you’re all about.

        PS. Sending dranged emails to everyone in your address book is one more clue that you’re a Republican troll, as if we needed more proof. What sane person does that?

      • Suomy Nona

        wow, So we are both clear what happen here.This started because I saw you and another guy belittling someone for refusing to support your candidate

        In response I defended him by providing a list of incidences were she was on the wrong side, You ignored “THE ISSUES” and responded by
        insulting me and making fun of me for my grammar and spelling…
        (Did i mention i have a form of Dyslexia which includes both reading and writing processes.. Yes it effect grammar too.)

        My response was to let you know that i would be posting the conversation on my google + account,
        and for that I’m an ignorant and insane asshole

        By the way google + is like Facebook,, and I’ve already posted this conversation.

        WHY WOULDN’T I??????

        Your posted right below some moron tea party ahole whose making fun of my grammar and spelling because i provided him with a quote from Washington which contradicting his assertion that America Was founded by Christians

        Dont know what that’s got to do with the “ISSUES”

      • Suomy Nona

        Hope you ave enough sense to nominate Sanders, Its a smarter strategy than trying to convince people to vote for your crooked candidate

      • JD Mulvey

        Imbeciles don’t get to lecture other people on what’s “smart.”

      • Suomy Nona

        Ok well good luck to you,
        glad to see you don’t need our vote, I’ll be adding that comment to google + as well
        Let the people know what the Hilalry supporters think of us and how they address the “ISSUES”

      • JD Mulvey

        No one wants or needs the votes of ignorant assholes like you.

      • Suomy Nona

        OK well the stop worrying about it
        Seems like this article and your comments were Blatant attempts to bully or scare people into voting for her,

        So now we know its a control issue..
        Either-way not going to happen

      • JD Mulvey

        You truly are mentally ill.

        No matter –pretending you’re the victim while you troll all day long doesn’t convince anybody. Anyone who reads your inept and hate-filled attacks will grasp what a pathetic little bully you are.

        And know what? You failed.

      • Suomy Nona

        LOL , please show me what your refering too, Only one ive seen calling people names is you,,,,
        Im actually beginning to think you might be schizophrenic here.
        try this actually cut and paste one if my Vile comment so we can confirm your not delusional

      • JD Mulvey

        Since you apparently can’t read, I’ll indulge you despite what a complete dickhead you are.

        In just a couple of minutes of scrolling, below is a small sampling of your style of discourse –verbatim, with your unique grammer and spelling left intact. What are the chances that you shared any of this cleverness with your Google plus page? None.

        Normally I am patient with the mentally ill, but if you had the guts to come out of your mother’s basement and say any of this to my face, you’d be picking your face up off the pavement.

        “Man your not that retarded right ????”

        “yeah your a fuckin waist, Right wing asshole, I know what your about now,,,”

        “You fuck off..”

        “You lazy Hypocrite, ”

        “Nominate a candidate worth a shit or fuck off.”

        “Man your retarded,”

        “greedy ahole ”

        ” your opinion doesn’t matter”

        “Show were I insulted you. Are You Fucking Hillary or something..”

        “your a sorry shit”


        “this shows how fucking stupid you are,”

        ” your to fucking retarded to be voting”

        “, idiot,, “

      • Suomy Nona

        Wow that quite a rant, Ill make sure to post that on Google + too,,, I think your losing it man.. Try to relax man,,your getting to stressed about this shit…

        You can make us vote for Hillary, I know its hard for some people to except.

      • Suomy Nona

        100,000 people murdered because of the chioce of your candidate..
        Good luck winning the election.. I know you guys dont care about that shit,,, but alot of people do

      • Suomy Nona

        Why kind of sick people would vote for someone who so casually send are solders to another country, and participates in the murder of over 100,000 People, MY GOD

        No Liberal would ever vote for someone who did that, Why dont you guys want Bush as President again???>

      • JD Mulvey

        PS. Go and fuck yourself.

      • Suomy Nona

        LOL. yeah man you taught me, All day I’ve been feeling burned and i dint even know why…

        GO ahead and call me names again,, because your so cool and collected,,

        FYI, all kiding aside
        You really would have to be a sick piece of shit to support anyone who voted to invade another country…
        an unbelievable Hippocratic, to try to fear monger a person into voting for that same candidate by claiming that not voting for her would make you responsible for us invading another country

        All BS aside, im dead serious here,
        I don’t vote for War Mongers no matter what, I hope to fucking god you don’t either. they really are preparing for another military action, and a vote for Hillary or a republican is a vote for WAR..

        Despite that I was giving you a hard time before, Im being serious about this. 100,000 people is alot of dead bodies to ignore,
        I Dont ignore that shit and a whole lot of other people wont either..You guys need to understand this and giveup trying to get us to support her…

        there really is only two choices here, Nominate Hillary and try to win without the left..Or Nominate someone else and get their support. I would prefer the 2nd because I really am sick of having no-one worth a shit to vote for.

        and If you really think Im a Republican Troll, man,, you really are stupid

      • JD Mulvey

        PS. Go Fuck Yourself.

      • Suomy Nona

        OK, no issues to discus? Just a blind desire to follow your team no matter what

      • JD Mulvey

        Discuss? With YOU? That’s funny.

        PS. Now go fuck yourself, troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        So do you know why your voting for your candidate, or do you just support your team,,in 3 days of telling others to vote for Hillary, and insulting me, I have yet to hear on reason for your reasons. You are right, i will insult people who allow this shit….. MY god thing about it over 100,000 people, and all your worried about is people calling you names, after talking shit to two other people before me i might add., I dont get it,,sorry man but that really is childish, that alot of dead bodies to ignore,,,, call me an asshole for making you remember, If i can keep you guys from letting it happen again, its worth it,

      • JD Mulvey

        You don’t deserve any explanations from me or anybody else. You’re an asshole, a troll, and aren’t entitled to anything.

      • Suomy Nona

        hit a soft-spot,,..i don’t get mad because I don’t do things I’m ashamed of.
        You were on your ass watching TV when we invaded Irac, I was on the Street Protesting…Now your here calling people names who wont vote for your NEOCON candidate….

        Ill be the one protesting when we take Military Action against Isis, you’ll be the one justifying it so you can sleep at night

      • JD Mulvey

        The only soft spot is the one between your ears. You’re an ignorant bully and no matter how thuggish you are, you won’t win.

      • Suomy Nona

        Thats the thing about you guys, You dont care about the issues like the death of over 100,000 people, all you care about is the d in front of the name….

        Any one still willing to vote for someone is not better than BUSH

      • JD Mulvey

        That’ll teach me to waste my time responding to what you ask for.
        Clearly you’ll just keep trolling along, like the A-1 dickhead you are.

      • Suomy Nona

        ah yes i said that, its true. He is a DICK

        After badgering a guy who said he wouldn’t vote for Hillary for 3 days
        I stepped in and explained i wouldn’t vote for her either.

        When i asked him why he would vote for her he says because shes in-favor of gay rights like all the other Democrats,

        when i told him, Yeah but the other Democrats didn’t vote for the murder of 100,000 people

        His response was Yeah but im gay and she supports,
        SO fuck him we all been fucked over by the greedy assholes. Hillary will help the gays but fuck me and my family and vote to kill 100,000 people
        He doesn’t care as long as he get what he wants though

        I wish you would


      • JD Mulvey

        You aren’t smart enough to tell anybody anything. You’re humiliating yourself but are too stupid to know it, Republican troll.

      • Suomy Nona

        Your right about one thing, people who are ignoring that truth are in my mind worthless human beings, who have no business lecturing anyone

      • JD Mulvey

        Keep on troll, troll, trolling along, as if anybody care what some idiot on a 2-month-old thread has to say.

      • Roshan

        Six month old now. Suomy Nona’s vocabulary is admittedly rather colorful for most people’s tastes. But your continued focus on spelling as an indicator of the quality of someone’s ideas just reveals your own elitism. You, the elitist, then claiming it proves they’re a Republican is the ultimate painfully funny irony.

      • JD Mulvey

        Yes you are a true imbecile.

        Go back to grad school and ask your prof what “elitism” means. Ask what “irony” means too, while you’re at it.

      • Roshan

        Obviously I thought this was an isolated instance. But coincidentally I decided to look at the rest of this thread and it turned out that at the VERY BEGINNING you accused someone ELSE of being a Republican troll based on the completely grammatically correct, NON-offensive language they used. Just because you didn’t agree with them. For all I know there are more instances but I haven’t time to look. In any case it’s not just Suomy Nona. You’re a paranoiac thug and ‘outing’ people as being someone else, as being ‘Republicans’ is your ‘thing’. It’s what you do to discharge some of the unbearable anxiety caused by being you. How sad. Answer me, don’t answer me. I’m done with you.

      • JD Mulvey

        Oh sure you will. This is your “thing.” Pathetic dolt.

      • Suomy Nona

        Thats the difference,,,people like you belittle people because of their Grammar, I belittle people for ignoring the deaths of over 100,000 people.

      • JD Mulvey

        That’ll teach me to waste my time responding to what you ask for. Clearly you’ll just keep trolling along, like the A-1 dickhead you are.

        PS. Fuck yourself.

      • Suomy Nona

        LOL you mean like I’m doing now…Im pretty secure about these things
        Stop worrying about it no one even knows who you are

        You seem pretty worried about me posting our back and forth,,,why is that??

        I assure you I did post it. You can do the same if you want..People need to understand when it comes to “ISSUES” THE HILLARY CROWD REPSPONDS JUST LIKE THE RIGHT

      • JD Mulvey

        What you’re doing now? You mean throttling your computer keyboard and insulting people? How is that any different from what you’v been doing for three days?

        PS. You’re a dick.

      • Suomy Nona

        I dont think your smart enough to victimize me, but that hasn’t stopped your from trying

        You know disagreeing with someone is not victimizing them right?

        Please, lets make it easy for everyone to see my Vile conversation Cut and paste something Vile I’ve posted in your next response

      • Suomy Nona

        Your to stupid to cut and paste ??
        its hard to find information that only exist in that delusional mind of yours

        I can paste plenty of Vile insults you’ve directed at me and others, in fact now that your mentioned it I will paste all your Vile comments on google + to let people see what kind of people support Hillary.

        You can do the same, unless of course you made them up or imagined them

        Lol, Hillaries dogs are worse than anyone

      • Suomy Nona

        OK, well good luck to you,,thanks for the help..
        Dont be to hard on yourself you don’t know any better

        Probably best we finish this conversation after the election, so we can see who is right and who is wrong.

        I predict the next president of the united states will not be Hillary. With any luck she wont manage to fuck over the Democrats by stealing the Nomination

      • strayaway

        If Hillary or Jeb win, Americans lose. If I had my way, it would be a Jeffers/Paul contest. Imagine the ideas and policies that would be introduced and discarded relative to those in a Hillary/Jeb matchup.

      • Suomy Nona

        I agree, best we try to motivate those willing to hear to get vote for Sanders in the priamries,, these people will vote for anyone the democrats bring to the tbl….So best thing we can do is make sure all of use who know better vote in the primaries..

        If Sanders wins the Nomination i have no doubt he will win the general election,
        But these people arnt going to believe anything they contradicts what they see on TV

      • Suomy Nona

        THEN DONT NOMINATE CROOKS,,stop bringing these corporate democrats to the table then cry when people wont vote for them,,,,

        If all the idiots who voted for Gore had voted for Nader Bush would have lost…This deaths are on your heads idiot

        If Hillary gets the nomination and Bush wins as a result, blame it on the people who nominated her

      • Suomy Nona

        If you guys had done the right thing and voted for Nader none of that would have happen,,
        Now your doing it again with CLINTON, take responsibility for the choices you made, and dont make the same mistakes again.

      • Suomy Nona

        actually, you are responsible. you have a chance to vote for someone with integrity you do it..,

        Sanders is Running, I and many others will not vote for HIllary no matter what.. Learn your lessons and do the right thing

      • freen the merciless

        there are two elections. bernie is running in the primary against hillary. excellent. this will allow true progressives to vote for bernie. this is also excellent. bernie will win a few important states and get a healthy delegate count. this is also excellent. I support bernie. unfortunately, he will lose the primary. i can do the math. in the general election, given the choice between hillary, who is a deeply compromised corporate shill with highly questionable friends, and the last scumbag standing from the republicans, who to a man (carly included) are profoundly corrupt fascist war pigs, the choice still is clear.

      • Suomy Nona

        What math ?? no one has even voted yet…
        Duh,, I just imagined the future and did the math. It was a landslide victory for Sanders….

        I imagined a second outcome and also did that math.. the Democrats split because they brought a candidate that the educated voters knew was a crook. Lost half their base, lost the election, and never recovered.

        I have a third imagined scenario
        Hillary gets the White house the people will know it was rigged and civil war will begin.

        Test my Hypothesis I’m rarely wrong.

      • Suomy Nona





      • Suomy Nona

        wait, what, there are two elections??? wow i don’t know that because i have been living in America for 40 yrs

      • freen the merciless

        and that makes you stupid. There’s evil, like going along with the iraq war vote based on perjured congressional testimony, and like gleefully chortling as ghadafi gets tortured to death, and there EVIL like murdering 100,000 iraqi’s cause daddy’s butthurt and it’s gonna make my anal top Ken Lay rich.

      • strayaway

        There were members of Congress at the time who called Bush’s bluff and said there was no proof of WMD’s including Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. There were also fools like Hillary and Kerry who bought into and supported Bush’s lies with their votes. There is a second level of fool who continues to vote for idiots like McCain and Hillary although they clearly learned nothing from the folly of supporting Bush’s Iraq fantasies and have supported every hawkish fantasy since. However, if you wish to be the spokesperson for modern progressivism, go for it.

      • Jeff Henderson

        In deciding the lesser of two evils – Hillary Clinton is never the “lesser.”

      • androphiles

        You’re the one who thinks she’s evil. I know better. Keep on yammering.

      • Jeff Henderson

        Watch the videos on this blog they are short. Don’t have to watch all of the one with Ghaddafi if you start to feel bad. Be aware she saw it before the video of her. Tell me how could you not agree that Hillary has absolutely no human soul?

      • okieggma

        How can you believe that garbage Jeff…. are you 12.

      • Jeff Henderson

        Believe what garbage? You don’t believe that is the video of Ghaddafi being dragged and tortured? You don’t believe that is Hillary cackling about his torture and death? She has no soul.

      • Jeff Henderson
      • Suomy Nona

        alot of have decided shes evil, or a crook, or a social path,,I wonder if bad people know their bad,,
        apparently not, ask someone who lives in Irac. they know what evil is

      • Scheherazade

        yes, bad people know they are bad, but stupid people think everyone else is stupid except themselves.

      • Suomy Nona

        You know your bad and don’t care… Also Nader did not steal votes from GORE, THAT IS RETARDED

        I Voted for Nader, would never have voted for GORE.. but Its nice to know you and the other idiot STILL HAVE NOT FIGURED IT OUT…..
        I voted for Obama in 2008, voted green in 2012,, dint give a fuck if he won or lost

        Again what did you say about people thinking there smarter than others,,,,,Your so smart you think you know better than me what I would have done…
        That’s not rude???

        So you know,,

        Most of the progressives don’t vote of vote third party,, people like you choose to help destroy our world instead of taking real action, then talk trash about the GOP. ..HYPOCRITE.

        That’s why only 30% of the country votes,,, because we don’t have a choice.

        I am telling you believe it or don’t.,, If Hillary gets the nomination the Democrats will lose…Blame it on me..Blame it on Bernie,Or Blame it on NADER,,,,just don’t blame it on the people who nominate her… That’s what a grown up would do… take responsibility for who they select,

        A viable candidate according to you Is the one you will vote for, ANd the progressives can just eat it like always….Well sorry 70% of the population disagrees, and that’s why the idiot democrats keep losing to Republicans

        Midterms anyone???? You guys figure that out yet???? why dint any of the progressive showup to stopthe Republican take over in the house.
        HMMM,,Must have been NADER again… right???

      • Suomy Nona

        FYI what Hillary really things of you
        Jion the Sander Revolution

      • androphiles

        Bernie Sanders would not approve of your tactic. It’s not necessary to put one candidate down in order to support another. Both of them have good points. Which one you choose is up to you, based on your agreement with their various expressed opinions.

      • Suomy Nona

        Dont really care. Sanders is a politician who is forces to coddle children.
        I am not,, I am expressing hatred towards people who I truly hate. LIARS, MURDERS AND HYPOCRITES ,, ITS DISGUSTING

        If you are so pathetic that you’ll shoot yourself in the foot and vote for someone who hates you for your lifestyle,,, just because someone who hates you for supporting a murder and thief, you get what you deserve.

        I wont let you hypocrites sellout the working class again without telling them what i think.
        Im not going to be polite about it…Murder, theft, and discrimination is worse than being rude asshole
        You ignore our needs and the deaths of others you can FUCK OFF

      • androphiles

        What do you think you’re accusing me of? Who is it that “hates” me for my “lifestyle” that you think I’m going to vote for? What do you think you know about me? Your assumptions are simplistic and idiotic.

      • Suomy Nona

        Well if you on board with Sanders, then i owe you an Apology,, As far as Hillary she has good qualities like Ted Cruz or Trump…

        If you can name anything please do.
        except for supporting a single pay health care system I know of nothing…..
        I mean of course something specific, not she cares about the american worker…

        As far as putting a candidate down,,pointing out the political and business history is not putting them down,,Its educating people who seem blissfully unaware..

        Her helping to gut unions while on the board of director for Walmart is need to know info
        Her feelings about gay marriage is need to know

        Her support of TPP,

        Her failure to make wise decisions regarding Irac…
        ALL of these things are important and most voters are un-aware……

        When she gets on TV and acts like she supports the working class and is the defender of the LBGT community she gets called out.

        The News isn’t doing it, Sanders isnt doing it, she definitely isn’t going to do it and Anyone who does is attacked….

        I have an obligation, and honestly it pisses me off. People should know these thing about the person their planing to vote for……

      • androphiles

        Look, I don’t know you. People who care about voting don’t wait for someone like you to tell us the facts as you see them in a thread of comments on a political article. We do our due diligence of listening to all the candidates, of watching what they all do, and of investigating their past for ourselves. I don’t have anything more to add to this conversation. When I make up my mind it will be from my own knowledge. If you’ve already made up your mind, good for you. I’m going to wait until just a LITTLE BIT closer to the election. Good bye and good luck.

      • Suomy Nona

        Facts as i see them???? what the fuck?????? Its a matter of public record…DUH

        Most of the info was avail on… Its a website not a thread.
        And a matter of public record not fact as someone sees it…

        As i said before, the question is are you uninformed or are you just an asshole.
        either way a vote for Hillary is a vote for the republican

        Also you never gave me any of the good qualities

        Has it ever a cured to you that Hillary is a liar?

        If Hillary is nominated the democrats will lose,… Then we will have to listen to idiots blaming Sanders for the democrats losing, and for the Republicans getting to stuff the courts..
        Big difference btn me and you,,, I wont vote for Hillary, while you will vote for Sanders..

        their are many people like me, unwilling to support our team when our team shows their nothing but hypocrites..

        ,, while people like me fight so that epople like you arnt discriminated against…

      • Suomy Nona

        So you know Hillary
        1) VOted for the Iraq war
        2)Voted for the bailout
        3)Opposed Gay marriage
        4)Voted for the Patriot act
        5)Fought to lower wages while on the board of Directores for Walmart
        6)Fought to destoy unions while on the board of 7)Directors for Walmart
        8)Supports TPP
        9)Support to big to fail
        10)Opposes Clemency for Chelsea Manning, who has a 35yr sentence for talling America we were touturing people
        11)Supports Fracking

      • JR

        And takes money from dictator countries and dictator Muslum countries that enforce Sharia law – Kill gays, stone women for getting raped, rape little kids, torture anyone breaking laws, torture animals, destroy environment, women have absolutely no rights, etc

      • Suomy Nona

        IM still voting for her

      • Suomy Nona

        You’re trying to indict her by association; but the fact is she’s as pro-gay as Bernie Sanders. It was never established that she agreed with Bill at the time.. do you remember saying this????

        The proof is in the pudding HA Score one for me

      • treefrog

        Hillary and her group are experts at: “Good cop,bad cop

      • Suomy Nona

        Listen everyone understands that, we all get that, and we are all voting for the lesser of two evils.

        This does not mean choosing between Bush and Hillary
        It means stopping them. If your not willing to step up and do that your opinion doesn’t matter

      • androphiles

        Thanks for sharing your opinion about my opinion. Go do whatever you think is right. I’m already doing what I think is right.

      • Suomy Nona

        Right then when Bush wins the election, you’ll Blame the left
        2000 anyone, looks like the demcrats dint learn their lesson, guess Iran will have to pay this time

      • treefrog

        We get the evil of the two lessers ….

      • Patricia Blount

        Do you know what progressive is people. It is same as socialism/communism. The communists change their labels ever so often to confuse masses to their agenda. When communism was looked badly upon they changed their name to socialism which looked a little better, but same results, now that socialism is known as communism they have re -labled their party as progressives but it is all the same thing. communists are not stupid people. They are nine tenths all the way here in America with their communist manifesto. Last two things they are going after is free speech and our right to bear arms, then when that goes we are all slaves. Wake up and educate yourselves.Hate crimes a communist front and that did not work completely against freedom of our speech then its now political correctness they use to stifle us from our beliefs. They are demonic and deceiving liars.

      • finisterre

        Hi Patricia. I’m afraid you have absolutely no idea what the words socialism, communism and slavery mean. Can I suggest you find out – even just read the Wikipedia entries – before your next attempt at political theorising? I know complex ideas can be daunting, but you are doing yourself a disservice with this frightened refusal to inform yourself. All the best.

      • JR

        You have no idea what the words socialism, communism, and slavery mean. And Wikipedia is not reliable. Everyone knows that, or should know

        Communist Vladimir Lennin said that communism is socialism and progressivism. And said that using the word “communism ” should be avoided at all times and other words used in its place. That is exactly what has been happening

      • Mr President Sir!

        No I am sorry to be the one to tell you this but you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. First off Socialism and communism is two completely different things with completely different agendas. Also unless I am seriously mistaken

      • earinsound

        Go back to the paranoid and clueless 1950s

      • Michael Walsh

        Rubbish Patricia Blount that is one of the most ignorant thing I have ever heard ~ Brainwashed by the GOP and the Tea Party Most likely ~ You have no idea how stupid what you have said is ~ Socialism is NOT communism in political terms ~ They are worlds apart ~ Progressive is not a word that sits with Communism or Socialism ~ Having said that Patricia I agree with you about loss of freedom of speech becoming slaves, so called hate crimes and political correctness ~ They are a bane to any thinking person ~ But consider this, Americans have never been so trodden upon, stolen from, made so poor that the middle classes have disappeared, freedom of speech cut and the voice silenced so much as it has under George Bush and his cronies ~ Forget Obama ~ He has saved the economy ~ No laws he has enacted have trodden on your freedom of speech ~ That is courtesy of the NSA, Homeland security, FBI and CIA under bush senior and made worse by Bush junior ~ And freedom of choice has diminished as well along with free association One of the greatest devils in all of this is Dick Cheney ~ If there ever was something like the Devil incarnated he is it ~ This filth has addicted America to wars and the economy these days is almost fully dependant on that addiction Go read and study some real information for yourself ~ I am very Conservative on many issues and progressive on many others ~ I am not American ~ I have studied and researched objectively all aspect of the US political system ~ What stands out clearly is that the USA is not a sovereign state ~ It is a large corporation that is interested in one thing only ~ More wealth and power for the already wealthy and powerful, and the destruction of ALL else ~ America is going to bring this world to an end ~ End of story ~

      • Grant Derderian

        Obama didn’t do jack to help the economy. As far as America goes, do you live and work in America? If so, you are an American. If you hate America so much, then leave.

      • JR

        Over 95 million unemployed American citizens.
        And Obama is part of the oligarchs. What has he done for Blacks?

      • el duderino

        pretty much all of europe is firmly socialist, and are far freer in many ways than this country is. you do know that we imprison more people per capita than anybody, right? you do recognize that if you aren’t a cop or know a cop, you can be killed pretty much without consequence of any kind here? you do know that if uncle sam wants you dead, you get dead. free speech is not just the right to agree with uncle sam.

      • JR

        What utter nonsense

      • el duderino

        what part? btw, your zipper is down. and your shoes are untied. for that matter, you are drooling a bit, too. are you off your meds?

      • treefrog


      • Kendon Smith

        Neither will jumping onto a ship of fools

      • DMD63

        We create reality by making choices. I am so tired of the phrase “that’s reality.” Slavery was reality, child labor was reality, unsafe working conditions were reality, segregation was reality. Accepting the status quo because you feel helpless just feeds into the corrupt system. Those in power love the phrase “that’s reality.” It keeps them in full control of both the present and future.

      • JD Mulvey

        A lot of people worked very hard for many years to create a political constituency that could end slavery and child labor and unsafe working conditions.

        Your “movement to end the corrupt system” has done none of that hard work.

        That’s why it can’t win and doesn’t deserve the support of serious people.

      • The people who worked hard were not politicians; politicians like Clinton (and Lincoln) followed their lead and then took all the credit.

      • JD Mulvey

        Uh okay… Lincoln didn’t really DO anything to end slavery… damn slacker.just took credit all the time.
        Good luck with that.

      • TexasVetgal

        Lincoln waited 2 years to bring about an end to slavery in the North. What possible reason would he not act sooner, if not Political reasons?
        You’ve been listening to the libtard narrative, That Lincoln was elected to end slavery. Which is far from the truth.

      • bptr

        Wow. “Libtard”? Repeat “Conservative” (conserve nothing) stupidity much? Do you know any fucking thing about Lincoln?

        Do “Conservatives” ever read, or do they just repeat stupidity?
        Own a Ford ( FORDumbasses) pickup truck by chance? Use it for anything? Wow it’s powerful! 90% goes into moving the dead weight of the idiotic “macho” body.
        You people all have a low IQ and use the term “liberal elite” because you have inferiority complexes.

      • TexasVetgal

        Post a FACT… or STFU, you effing retarded piece of crap.

      • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

        True. He was a Republican. What do you expect, lol impect, from that party?!

      • Christopher John Pasch

        Jill Stein got arrested trying to get into the Presidential debate last year. Eugene Debs continually ran for President as a Socialst, despite not getting elected. The third party has been trying for a long time. Its the fault of the people for being lazy and going with the status quo.

      • okieggma

        and maybe she did not get farther because people did not think she was worth voting for…..just because you thought she was great that is not enough to make a political movement.

      • DMD63

        How dare you. HOW DARE YOU! Other than apparently smoking spliff I would be interested in what the hell you have contributed to progressive causes. I was using historical references to point out that reality is not some abstract concept but the result of what people choose to do. It is the result of years of action, not just hope and making donations to political campaigns. You have no idea what I am talking about.

      • JD Mulvey

        You and your seminar classmates have obviously given this a lot of thought. Once you’ve begun the real work of building a political movement, let me know and maybe I’ll vote for you.

        Until then, I’m going to work to get Hillary Clinton elected.

      • okieggma

        Me too….She is more than qualified and she is a pro choice Democrat….that is all I need to know.

      • Suomy Nona

        are there any non pro-choice Demcrats????

      • Dave Froman

        More qualified? Sanders hass spent almost 30 years in public office AND he has always been pro choice….unlike Hillary who was adamantly against it 12 years ago.

      • treefrog

        She is a vote whore and does not give a shit about anything except being elected POTUS !

      • Suomy Nona

        Anyone voting for Hillary when Sanders is running is fucking retarded, don’t cry when the liberal refuse to support your crook candidate and we have another Bush in the White house,,..

        Just like 2000 blindly supporting which ever democrat has the most dark money and blame Nader when you lose…
        Fucking children need to grow up

      • Scheherazade

        It sounds like you are the one who needs to grow up. I seriously doubt that you are a liberal — more like a hack for the republicans who are scared to death of Hillary Clinton. And Nader did take votes away form a more viable candidate, though I don’t think that’s why Gore lost. He lost because of the conservative Supreme Court. Ralph Nader ran 5 different times! You would think that people would have known he couldn’t win. They wasted their vote and were childish to do it. As your little tantrum shows you to be just as childish.

      • Suomy Nona

        1) Hillary voted for the Irac War
        2) Hillary apposed Gay marriage
        3)Hillary voted for the Patriot act
        4) Hillary helped to gut the unions wall on the board of directors at Walmart
        5) Hillary supports to big to fail
        6)Hillary supports TPP, which included Malasia who engages in human trafficing

        1)Bill repealed glass steagal
        2) Bill allowed high-tech companies to alter expected earning to inflate stoke prices and causing the 2000 crash
        3) To big to fail legislation
        4)Banned Gay Marriage (defense of marriage act)
        5) increased prison population by 60% (Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act)
        6) pardoned his friend who stole 600,000 from the bank he operated
        7) blocked legislation to force companies who use off-shore accounts pay taxes

        With Liberals like that who needs the GOP????? Hypocrite..

        FYI Bernie just entered legislation to provide grants to low families wishing to migrate to solar. He also introduced legislation to make college free to anyone wishing to attend.
        to make this happen we need to increase marginal tax on the wealthy and get rid of the Tax havens….

        This will never happen because the Hypocrites will vote for an Ex Republican turned democrat

      • Rainier54

        That is the past you forgot a new one Hillary is standing with Obama on everything or most everything he did. Candidates are not stagnant and attached to a past decisions. You judge to much. We have free will and can change. Change is what Obama promised, seems he changed her to. She was his Secretary of state. She must have learned allot about politic’s from him. I’ll vote for her as a Obama alternate. What I really wish is that he had a third term. But we can’t change the system yet.

      • Suomy Nona

        you people are the most manipulative people i have ever encountered. Politics makes good people liars and bad people worse

        I don’t agree with a whole hell of a lot that Obama did. I voted for him the first time because i believed he was progressive, And because my son is bi-racial and i wanted him to feel like america was his country too.

        He is Not a progressive and cares very little about the African american community. or the working class in general…..


        What do you like about him, do you know???

        Can you say what the fuck makes him worthy of respect?



        The way he bailed out the banks. Just like Hillary and Bill Clinton would have??

        OR how he is pushing another trade deal that will stab american workers in the back….

        Or the way they both started supporting gay marriage after the LBGT community in the last few months….

        Or maybe this is threat… and your telling me if I attempt the educate people on these issues, i will get 35 yrs in prison like Chelsea Manning


        Maybe you just worship icons and don’t even pay attention to what they are doing and vote based on Hero worship or party affiliation…

        WHAT ISSUES ARE IMPORTANT TO YOU,,and who really serves those interest…..specifically how

        You will vote Democrat no matter Clearly regardless of who they bring to the table because

        the other guy is racist,,,ARE YOU THAT DUMB??

        To you this is a football game that is it..


        Trying to ignore Hillary’s Lies and feeling of superiority over the working class is ridiculous

        Ignoring her and Obama’s attempt to sell out the American working class out with another trade deal is pathetic. DO you care at all about your fellow Americans?????

        ANYTHING but the issues right?????

        The system will change now, or the people will riot….WE will not be ignored by the middle class and rich anymore.

        Its time for a revolution and we have no room for brain dead zombies

        Because of this manipulative response I will vote republican.. The DEMOCRATS WILL CHANGE NOW. Or be held accountable along with the Republicans

        The Revolutions has begun it can be political, non violent or violent but its happening now, wake up, stop being a selfish ahole and join the American people.

        AT LEAST STOP LYING THIS WILL HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT,,, Your apathy is as much to blame and their corruption and arrogants


      • Kd Grayson

        Suomy Nona, You are brilliant, everything you predicted came true and was correct, the dems need someone like you to win back guys as me who was a dem and voted for Obama his 1st time.

      • Suomy Nona

        You guys have fun with a Republican President, You clearly are voting for personality and not issues…

        What did Obama do for you? You ever ask that question, he spending our money bailing out the wealthy and insuring the investment banks controlled the government than helping the American People

        My son is African American works 40 hours a week, and sleeps on the street 4 nights a week because he cant afford a place to live, and i cant afford a car to get him to work.

        You people have so much money you cant even imagine what its like for others.

        Hillary is more of the same you think that’s good????LOL YOU ARE CLEARLY IN YOUR OWN PRIVATE WORLD LIKE ALL THE WEALTHY AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS,,,

        you greedy shits do something for the poor just one fucking time..

      • Dawn Marie

        Here’s spit in your eye, your face and on your grave! Not everyone should be allowed to vote, too many are too stupid, obviously!!!
        The American people give more to the poor than any other country in the world. We have been too generous, now it’s expected. Ingrates!

      • Karl Kaiser

        Sadly, I agree with you Suomy. MANY supporters of corporatist Democrats like Clinton AND Obama are pampered “limousine liberals” who do not give a fuck about the struggling poor, blue collar workers who lost their jobs to closing factories, or students with mortgage-sized loans they cannot pay off.

        Once upon a time THOSE were core values for core constituents of the Democratic party, but now there upper class democrats try to salve their conscience by pretending that all those Democrats are “far left”. Well they never were until the party moved to the right.

        And as the country gets worse year after year, these spoiled bourgeois Democrats have a harder and harder time scaring the poor and the collapsing middle class into voting for Democrats, not because they will change anything but ONLY because they aren’t Republicans.

      • Jan Allen

        Exactly!! Anyone with a lower income who has a deductible of $6500 for all intents and purposes, do not have insurance and still cannot afford to go to the doctor. We keep hearing how all these millions now have insurance that didn’t before, but how many of those millions can actually afford to go to the doctor? With a $6500 deductible?

        If they want HIllary so bad, they can live with the consequences. Either her or Trump, it still going to be a conservative republican in office.

      • Suomy Nona


      • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

        The Bernie Sanders streak might have played out better in 1776, not now!

      • Dave Froman

        I can’t believe that someone who supported o’bama is backing this corporate puppet Clinton. You know where Obama messed up? The day after the elction he said to the voters “Thanks a lot, I’ll take it from here. I’ll sit down with the republicans and we’ll work out a deal.” The Republicans met the day of the elction and literally formed a policy to BLOCK everything that came down the pipe. You think Hillary will have any luck with a progressive agenda when she too is in bed with wallstreet? That is why Sanders is telling people this is not about him…its about the people. He will not make the same mistake. When he wins it will not be the end of the revolution. He has publicly stated he wants millions of people to stand up and march on Washington and FORCE the agenda. That is the ONLY way real change is going to happen now. Hillary will never be able to command the kind of respect from the nation to allow her to do the same thing nor will her handlers and sponsors allow it.

      • Suomy Nona

        Agreed, I will fight for Bernie, Still havent gotten over her crook ahole husband, the Iraq war, and the bailout.

      • treefrog

        Hillary is NO GOOD !…She lies and thumbs her nose

      • Karl Kaiser

        Duh. Hillary “stood with Obama because she was employed by him.” Now she’s not and she’s already acting more militant. If Obama didn’t finalize an agreement with Iran she would have us at war with them. And the is far more pro Israel than Obama. She is dangerous as a military leader.

      • Jan Allen

        Have you researched some of the crap she was involved in as secretary of state? You don’t have a problem with her approving arms deals to countries that donated big time to the Clinton foundation? I call that a bribe, but what do you call it? Have you read how she opposed Haiti raising it’s minimum wage from 21 cents to 62 cents per hour? Have you bothered to find out about all the intervention she has done, including the coop in Honduras? She is a conservative republican.

      • treefrog

        Hillary as Bill are vote whores !

      • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

        And you’re a hater!

      • martin woyzeck

        The immaturity and ignorance of liberal centrist dems.
        You guys love to say ‘doubt Bernie voters are liberal, but repubs.
        Reality is we’re not liberals, we’re progressives and to the Left.
        Reality is that the democratic party is what the repub party was 60 yrs ago. So, it’s very much more likely that you fit the bill as repubs.
        Gore did not lose cuz of Nader (I proudly voted for Nader), but it doesn’t matter.
        It showed, as does with Bernie, who the people want. The fact that dems are scared shows people want these candidates.
        The problem is the failure of the two party system.
        The candidates dems always wants does not represent progressives nor the Left.
        Yet your pompous arrogance and cry baby tantrums
        thinks we should vote for your candidates.

        Btw, Nader ran 3 times, not 5.
        And no that he didn’t win, doesn’t mean anything except the failure of the two party system.
        Just like now, the dem party playing the same dirty tactics as they whine about the gop doing, whenever there’s an outsider.
        They banned Nader from being part of the debates. They did the same now with Jill Stein.
        What does that tell you, you moron
        That Nader didn’t win, or Bernie may not, is due to the corruption of the dems. That’s it.

        You are such a typical weenie, punk repub in disguise centrist dem.
        You’re all part of the problem.
        Dems are just as much to blame for our problems as the gop.

        You’re losing. All stats so far say the majority are voting for Bernie, and if loses primaries, will write his name in ,or not vote.
        I’m one of them.

      • Scheherazade

        When you get so angry, you are incoherent, it’s time to slow down and count to ten, then ask yourself what purpose your anger is serving. It doesn’t bother others; it doesn’t solve your problems; it doesn’t make you more believable; and it doesn’t help your candidate, so what good DOES it serve?


      • Scheherazade

        If the majority are voting for Sanders, where are the needed delegates? He is not winning and we are not worried that he will.

      • martin woyzeck

        I totally agree.
        The hypocrisy of liberal centrist dems is laughable.
        One of their excuses is that Sanders is running as a dem,and that he’s not one.
        That’s such b.s..They whined when Nader ran, and he did so under the green party.
        They are in denial that there are a majority that are more to the Left, whether Socialist, or other.
        So their arrogance wants the Left to always vote for their candidate.
        Yes, it will be liberal dems fault whatever happens.
        There hasn’t been much difference in the last 40 yrs whether centrist liberal dem or gop.
        Btw, they keep confusing the word liberal.
        Liberals are the middle of the road centrist dems.
        They are not the same as progressives or the Left.

      • bptr

        As long as Americans remain brainless fatass apathetic morons, we will have a simplistic two-party system of stooges.

      • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

        LOL, whiners like you are why Hillary lost and Trump won! Enjoy Trump because you voted him in!

      • Suomy Nona

        thats ridiculous, lets judge people for who they are and what they are doing right now,

        Hillary and Bush are both crooks, your trying to let them get away with it because of what people who have been dead for long time did

      • JD Mulvey

        You’re deranged.

        If you have even a shred of basis for your claim that Hillary Clinton is a “crook,” take it to a district attorney. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding some righwinger to ally with. We both know you won’t, because you can’t.

        So keep blowing bullshit. It’s all you’ve got.

      • Suomy Nona

        Her and her Husband made changes to the ability of the high-tech companies to declare expected earning during his time as president, this allowed them to claim outrages earnings, which was a lie, and by doing so they manipulated the american public into investing in these companies. This was followed by a crash in 1999 when the reality of the impracticality of the expected earnings came to light, but not before The Clinton’s and board of directors at these companies sold there stocks and made millions,

        They also used his position as President to repeal Glass Steagall,, which allowed the banks and wall street to steal Americans Savings to use for investment, and which played a large part in the economic colaps in 2008…

        You dint hear about either of these my god where have you been for the last 15 years…

        they also purchased land in partnership with a bank run by their best friend, who Illegally took 600,000 from the bank to invest in that property.. While it could not be proven the Clintons where aware of this theft….He used his position as President to Pardon his friend before he left office

        This is all common knowledge

      • Suomy Nona

        “take it to a district attorney”, this shows how fucking stupid you are,,,,When the President is a Crook they can Create laws that makes what their doing legal…..

        That doesn’t mean they arnt crooks, moron,,,,it means we are powerless to stop them,,, GOD YOUR FUCKING RETARDED

      • Scheherazade

        You need to learn some grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Then, you need to learn how to conduct a civil discourse in public.

      • Suomy Nona

        take it to a district attorney”, this shows how fucking stupid you are.
        This is what was said to me….

        SO people get to call me stupid and insult my intelligence for telling the truth?.. That’s Civil discourse,

      • treefrog

        Hell yes, and her cell phone bullshit….She is crooked as the day is long ! Hillary is a right winger…She voted for IRAQ war…WTF ! is that ..Bernie did NOT !!!

      • treefrog

        Hillary is a shape-shifter….Voted for Iraq war without reading all the reports….She wants to be Queen

      • Monique B

        It starts somewhere. It must be nice to speak out of both sides of your mouth. So change takes work. Ok. You don’t deserve help because you haven’t yet done the work. They can’t do the work unless people support them. Jesus. It’s like telling a woman who is asking for equality to stop being a bitching and then finish the sentence by saying she should fight for herself.

      • JD Mulvey

        I’ll “talk out of both sides of my mouth” again to point out that you’re responding to a post from nine months ago, so nobody will ever read your compelling insults and bizarre analogies except me and you. And I don’t care what some imbecile on the web thinks. And go fuck yourself.

      • Mr President Sir!

        Electing a third party candidate in this Country at this point in time, IS NOT THE REALITY ! That is the point.

      • androphiles

        DMD63 doesn’t really care about reality, only about making a point.

      • Suomy Nona

        You people who are blindly supporting the Democrat of least resistance are the problem…
        MY god your gay, and ready to vote for the wife of the person who banned gay marriage in this country to begin with.

        You know SANDERS is in favor of GAY rights and he appose the defense of marriage act…, DUHHHHH

        So your shooting yourself in the foot and calling other people names,,,
        Nominate Hillary, and Many of us wont vote or will Vote for a third party candidate,, If you cant see that Hillary and Bush are the same you have real issues…

        If you choose to help Nominate her, then its your fucking fault when she loses,

      • androphiles

        I’ll say this as gently as I can. If you think Hillary and Bush are the same it’s you who has “issues.” You’re trying to indict her by association; but the fact is she’s as pro-gay as Bernie Sanders. It was never established that she agreed with Bill at the time, and he later changed his mind anyway. You go ahead and vote as you’ve pre-determined. Come the time I may vote for Hillary (probably) or Bernie or someone else entirely. I haven’t made up my mind, but I won’t count Hillary out because of what someone else felt or did in the last century.

      • Suomy Nona

        As i said, if you want to pretend that Hillary and Clinton arent partners, then I wont argue that,,

        Her History is even worse


        I dint mean to get so mad before but that shit is so fucked up, I cant believe people are ignoring this shit…

        over 100.000 people dead from the decision she made
        the Unions are almost destroyed in this country with help from her

        this is who your talking about voting for..I dont think there is a significant difference Bush and her no. Not enough that they belong in different parties

        You know the Clinton’s are friend with Bush Senior right?
        You know they were republican before they ran for office right?

      • JR

        Clinton switched to the Democrat party after she was fired for lying, stealing, hiding files, and denying rights to people involved in the Watergate trial.
        Her heros are Mao, Marx, Alinsky

      • treefrog

        Forgive me, but her vote to go to war was this century !

      • androphiles

        You’re forgiven.

      • treefrog

        Why thank you…Her Monsanto connections are more than bothersome to me…Jeesh, what is she thinking or does she ???

      • Cheryl Sajet

        An excellent and appropriate analogy! The reality is that we need change!

      • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

        Those conditions you mention have not gone away at all so please don’t please do not refer to them in the past tense as if they were abolished completely!

      • Christopher John Pasch

        BS. Change only happens until we make it happen. What the fuck kind of logic are you following.

      • Mr President Sir!

        If you think your going to magically some how get enough votes to put any third party candidate in the White House. Then the question should be, Do you even know what the fuck the word logic means.

      • TransitDave

        Actually, a third party candidate did put someone into the white house, it just wasn’t the third party candidate. Ross Perot took 20% of the vote and helped put Bill Clinton in the white house without a majority of votes, for I believe the first time on history. No one seriously disputes that most of his votes came from fed-up Republicans who read George HW Bush’s lips.

        Ralph Nader arguably helped George W win by taking just enough votes from ALGORE to tip the electoral college to W.

        So far the record of third parties is dividing the vote, and usually they accomplish the opposite of what they hoped to accomplish as far as policy goes.

      • okieggma

        Exactly , we end up with a leader elected by 34% of the electorate at best. Not for me.

      • Suomy Nona

        Should have voted for Nader, then 65% of the country would have gotten who they wanted

      • Suomy Nona

        The point of voting third party is to force the Democrats to take up real issues

        All this is mute now, Sanders is running, If he gets the Nomination then the democrats will win,, If not they will lose

        Nominating Hillary at this point will prove the Democrats arn’t worth a shit

      • tomncali

        then voting for d or r helps make a change how? some vote to win party over value of country or anything else,when you see the push of party it seems to them nothing else matters. if not what is best for country and citizens what good are they at all?

      • Jan Allen

        No, it must not be accepted. It won’t change until people stand up and demand it change instead of just giving in.

    • Greg Singh

      I am so tired of not living in a land of rainbows and unicorns.

      • Cemetery Girl

        I know, completely idealistic notion. We should be gleeful that politicians can campaign on platform that they just aren’t quite as bad as the opposing candidate instead of any actual ideas, theories, or plans for how to do anything at all. Embrace continuing to select the politician that seems to best suited to advance his/her career, right?

      • JD Mulvey

        Not sure what “platform” you’ve been reading.

      • Suomy Nona

        Voted for the Irac War
        Voted for the Patriot act
        Voted for the Bailout
        kept silent about TPA and has no opionon about TPP
        supported NAFTA
        supported to big to fail
        supported defense of Marriage act
        supported the repeal of Glass Steagall
        fought the Unions while on the board of Directors for Walmart
        supported The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act

        was a Republican before her husband ran for office

        Republican anyone???

      • okieggma

        do you know what the Democrat platform is Cemetery Girl……read it. It is the ONLY one I can support.

      • Suomy Nona

        All Democrats are not the same. Sanders is in the Race,

      • Chosun1

        Seriously. Six years of Obama and I still don’t have a unicorn. What’s up with that?

      • Stereotreme

        You didn’t get yours?

    • Malcolm Hume

      So get involved in the party and make it more of what you want. Stop whining and expecting everything to be handed to you in a neat little package that you agree with 100 percent.

      • Corey Hanson

        I find it impossible to get on board with one of two parties that I agree with less than 30% The main issues that divide the two parties distract us from things that have a much bigger effect on society. Also thanks to the “better side” of the two party system, I now get penalized for my decision to boycott the health insurance industry. And the huge added cost that now disproportionately affects people at or below the median income, are you kidding me? And it’s really not 100% whether it’s green, libertarian, or socialist, I see much better alternatives being proposed to change a system that is stagnating and caring less and less for the people it should be representing. Even though you don’t see it, a vote for a third party sends a tiny message, that can contrubute to meaningful change in the long term.

      • zener_region

        Or just go ahead and vote for a Republican, as that is effectively what you will do. Vote in a Democrat for president and help secure the Supreme Court for liberals of any party! Those appontments are for life!

      • Suomy Nona

        I think that’s the plan if Hillary get the Nomination,
        That’s what this entire discussion is about.

        That what i for one will be doing…
        Nominate Sanders or stop crying

      • zener_region

        Vote Democrat to have any chance to change the court, whether Sanders, Clinton, or O’Malley. Or vote for a third party candidate to validate your little self and remain politically irrelevant.

      • Suomy Nona

        Nominate a candidate worth a shit or fuck off.
        and stop using fear mongering to try and pursued people its pathetic

      • Monique B

        Thank you. So tired of being told I will vote for her and I will like it. My vote is my vote and if anyone doesn’t like it fuck ’em.

      • Suomy Nona

        Nominate a Progressive “to have any chance to change the court”

      • Karl Kaiser

        People forget that we wouldn’t have all these nasty Republicans nominees on the court if DEMOCRATIC Senators didn’t go along.

        It is NOT ENOUGH to vote Democratic. If you don’t vote for Real Change the country will continue to collapse.

      • Christopher John Pasch

        or use your right to vote and vote for a third party

      • Jeffrey Waite

        Sorry, that won’t wash. The Republican National Convention in recent past, you know the one where they held a vote and turned off the delegates microphones so they couldn’t call for a roll call vote and had the teleprompter loaded with the results of the vote before it was held, yeah, that’s the one, proves it once and for all. I switched my registration to Libertarian. Human nature is what it is, and the founders of this nation knew it. This is why they put in place all the checks and balances which have taken this long to be sidestepped, destroyed, or simply ignored to the point where the powers that be can do whatever they want. They will NOT allow the reigns of power to be removed from their hands….PERIOD. The Republican National Convention in question had a rule passed that allows for the endorsed candidate to remove any delegate we send at will. A more clear message that they neither want nor will tolerate our influence could not be sent. We are not going to effect change from the bottom up in this country anymore. That ship sailed folks. What REALLY needs to happen is for the former Republicans like myself, and the former Democrats like yourself, to pool their resources behind a third party candidate we can agree on, and you’d be surprised how much we agree on when someone isn’t feeding you disinformation about what we believe in. IF that happens, we have a chance for real change. Otherwise we get politicians that SAY different things, but DO the same things. Republicans = war Democrats = war They may say they have different reasons for them, but the net result is we are still at war when we shouldn’t be. One thing they both agree on is they want more power and will get it however they can. I think we can both agree that is not a good thing.

      • midnightnc47

        Quit checking the D or R on your ballot because you are either stupid or incapable of actually learning something about a candidate. Quit being a generational voter and think for yourself.

      • okieggma

        What the heck is a generational voter? I am a 72 year old great grandmother who is a pro choice feminist…..what generation do I fit into.?

      • Suomy Nona

        Every female your age…. 🙂 sounds like my mom

      • Laurie Wingo LeVal


      • SocraticGadfly

        I vote Green, and I promote the party. That’s how I’m involved.

      • Suomy Nona

        Will you vote for Sanders if he gets the nomination?

      • Laurie Wingo LeVal

        She not WHINING she’s got an opinion and she’s expressing it!

    • Jessica Orsini

      To make a long story short: our Congressional system is geared toward a two-party system. If you look at countries that have successful multi-party systems, you’ll find that they are at least somewhat proportional Parliamentary system. But we have a first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all setup, and that lands us in a reality where two parties are going to be dominant.

      The solution — if you want a successful multi-party arrangement — is to switch to a proportional Parliamentary system. But short of a full-fledged Constitutional Convention, that’s not going to happen… and given the cries by some on the far right for a Constitutional Convention, you might not like what would come out of such an event.

    • Noah King

      Rand Paul criticizes both the democrats and Republicans I suggest you look into him.

      • okieggma

        He is anti choice…can’t do that.

    • peaceofmind5000

      We need to find a person and another party and work for the next 4 years to make it a reality. Nothing will change unless we make it change. I hope it isn’t to late.

    • Dan Edgell

      Americans, by and large, are too politically unaware, and yes, I’d even say stupid,to vote for one of TWO choices without demonizing the opposing party…they refuse to recognize that their goal isn’t to “destroy the country” or “take away our freedoms”, but to make America better. And the solution is to add a THIRD choice????
      The reason why dirty campaigns work so well is because it removes logic from the equation and gives the voter choices they don’t have to think about. We got Bush because of Perot. The Tea Party is the reason Obama got re-elected. Rand Paul will not get the nod, but he WILL get the lunatic fringe into the Republican tent before they become apathetic, undecided voters. Right now, our best hopes are with the lesser of two evils…because the lesser of THREE evils is a sad set of circumstances to live under.

    • midnightnc47

      Agree 100%….

    • Karl Kaiser

      You are correct. We have a corrupted two-party monopoly, which works just like any other monopoly in the marketplace.

      When the people have virtually no choice between competing products, the products get shittier and shittier. And that is what has happened to both of our established political parties, only “shittier” in this case means that they support corporate power and institutionalized political corruption.

      We are headed for a fascist state dominated by corporate power, sadistic militarized police, and constant surveillance to keep everybody intimidated and compliant. And BOTH establishment Democrats and Republicans are leading the way.

      But what do you expect? All these Democratic voters tell themselves that if they just keep on voting for the less shitty candidate SOMEHOW the Democratic party will reform itself and actually represent them? Sanders is the first viable and promising option we’ve had in a long time, and STILL people rationalize not supporting him.


      I hear North Korea has some options for you…need a ticket drop me a line:)

    • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

      If you are, then you can have a socialist government where you possibly wouldn’t be allowed to your own opinion. Your choice!

  • Mr President Sir!

    Thank you for the condescending sounding article I am sure that there are some low IQ liberals who were in dire need of having this explained to them as though they were four.
    However I am fairly confident that most liberals are like myself and have already realized all this on their own. We just do not trust her and want her to know that we are watching her and that if she sales us out completely there will be repercussions…….maybe not this election but when the circumstances allow. She will want a second term I am certain, if she gets the first and there may very well be a more viable alternative by then.

    • John Hickman

      You sound awfully full of yourself for a liberal.

      • Mr President Sir!

        Thank you! I am glad to see my hard work and effort being noticed! I shall as always continue to endeavor to persevere!

      • okieggma

        Thinkin that too.

  • Susan Chatzky

    Martin O’Malley Looks like he’s running and he would make a great president. Eight years ago we thought it would definitely be Hilary and look what happened. We elected an unelectable candidate, who was a good president despite our country not really being ready for an African American.

    • Allen Anderson

      Obama i s the worst president ever he should no longer be in office but in prison for all thje illegal things he has done

      • Brian

        So far Republicans have tried and failed to present any evidence of anything illegal. Meanwhile the Republicans in Congress have committed treason, as explicitly defined in the constitution, twice in as many weeks. Watch what you say.

      • okieggma

        Traitor Tom and his 46 cohorts.

  • solomondavidson

    Sadly, since the first airing of the email problem – Hillary is losing support among Democrats. Hillary and her followers must stop attempting to force feed her to the rest of a growing Democratic majority who want another presidential candidate – and that’s a reality that many Clinton supporters need to face.

    • okieggma

      I would not call 81% losing support.

  • Thomas Wallin

    Just for her pro-war in Irag vote as Senator, Clinton will never get my vote. She is clinging to old ideas that have been proven not to work. Let the Democratic Party come up with better candidates. I’m sick of playing this Republicans will be worse game. That’s how we perpetuate a Democratic Party that wants only to stay in power and offers us vague, ineffectual candidates. Let it find someone better or go the way of the dodo bird.

    • Brian

      I’m waiting for a realistic solution. Do you have one? If not, you admit you’re what’s wrong with America now, for refusing to vote.

    • Ed Mc

      I can’t really get behind the whole “pro war” vote to invade Iraq. She simply believed the information and justification given for criteria to go to war. She like many other senators made the mistake of believing the lies they were fed by that mildly retarded republican who was installed in the presidency by the supreme court. I can’t fault her for thinking the president wouldn’t bold face lie to the US senate to get what he wanted. Also- she was the sitting secretary of state when we decided to kill Osama Bin Laden. She gets a pass on voting for the war in my book. I want Elizabeth Warren to run. She’s beholden to no one and she’s not afraid to slip on the stilletos and stomp on some balls. Republicans are absolutely terrified of her and they should be but alas I accept she isn’t running and I will support Hillary. It’s a foregone conclusion she already won this. The 2016 GOP hopefuls just have absolutely no way to be competitive against Clinton. It’s abundantly clear as inbred simpletons like Ted Cruz step up to the plate and talk about the need for a Christian America…….. and Scott Walker who looks so dumb it’s clearly obvious the best parts of him went dribbling down his mothers leg. And then Chris Christie who looks like the mother in whats eating gilbert grape will NEVER be taken seriously and that retard Jeb Bush who already is calling for minimum wage abolishment as if he has no clue his last name will prevent him from running a slush stand.

  • Allen Anderson

    hopefully by the time elections roll around she will have been charged and convicted of numerous crimes and in Jail where she belongs

    • Mr President Sir!

      Bet your still waiting for that to happen to our President Obama too. Well you keep dreaming your little Fox News Entertainment dreams and don’t lose hope now. I will just…. you know….keep laughing every time I read where it’s gonna happen any day now……just like I have for the last 6 yrs. But I am sure it’s gonna work out for ya…….just any day now!

  • raulgarcia

    As a life long Progressive Democrat, I have two words and they are not very nice. You have nerve calling yourselves progressives.

  • A. Rush

    Before we blather on about what a nightmare a Republican SCOTUS would be, has everyone forgotten about David Barron? Obama nominated him for the First U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and the Senate approved him. Barron was the co-author of the Justice Department memos that provided the legal basis for the Obama administration to kill American citizens without due process. Barron’s justification served as a the basis of the administration’s drone assassination of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen. His 16-year-old son was killed in a drone strike shortly afterward.

    That’s the kind of person a so-called liberal Democrat nominated for the court that’s one step away from SCOTUS. That’s the kind of person Hillary could nominate if she became president. We’re talking about undermining 800 years of due-process law, dating all the way back to the Magna Carta. Let me make it perfectly clear one more time: A Democrat nominated him for the court, not a Republican.

    Our courts are in no safer hands with the Democrats than they are with the Republicans. If this is the argument for choosing Hillary over a GOP candidate, it rings completely hollow. Both parties are soulless corporate shills that work for the same interests and care not a whit for our civil liberties. The only thing the Democrats do is talk a better game.

    It’s beyond time to stop supporting this charade.

    • Steve_I_Am

      And Elena Kegan is no card-carrying progressive, either. She was the Solicitor General who botched the “Citizens United” oral arguments. She screwed that one up so badly she got promoted upstairs to SCOTUS.

      We need a new William O. Douglas on SCOTUS. We didn’t get it from Obama, and we won’t get it from Clinton.

    • Ben-Miriam Weathers

      After reading all these comments, it seems that the Democrats are divided and know it. I believe that 40% on both sides of the political spectrum support their candidate. The 20% swing voters are the ones you have to convince. These 20% don´t walk into a poll booth and vote democrat, because they have always voted democrat. They think. They don´t stay at home. Hillary will be the Democratic nominee. She´s going to have to separate herself from Obama in order to sway the 20%. Separating from Obama will hurt her with her base. Republicans have the same problem with all their candidates. There´s some good potential among the Republican candidates. Never underestimate your opponent. I know Hillary won´t. Yes, I´m a Republican. I support Scott Walker.

      • okieggma

        I don’t think these are necessarily Democrats on this page. Most sound like poser’s to me.

  • TheTruth5151

    If “86%” want Hillary then why the attempt to browbeat the progressive left of the party to back her?

    • okieggma

      I don’t see anyone browbeating progressives….I am a progressive and I am supporting Hillary whole heartedly.

  • Steve_I_Am

    Allen Clifton said – “Republicans overwhelmingly won this past November, not because they were popular or ran the better candidates, but because liberals let them win.”


    Republicans won this past elections for TWO reasons. First they won because the electoral map was in their favor. (The Senate will swing back to the Democrats in 2016 for exactly the same reason); and, secondly, because the centrists, who control the Democratic Party, did not provide America with a progressive alternative.

    As Truman famously said “If you give America a choice between a real Republican, and a Democrat who governs like a Republican, they will vote for the real Republican every time.

    America voted for REAL CHANGE in 2008, and the Democratic Party gave us “Republican Lite,” instead. Not surprisingly, America rejected that faux centrism in 2010, 2012, and 2014.

  • Dan Hutchison

    Wow, good point. If a Republican appoints four justices, liberals might not be able to fund their causes with everyone else’s money! Have you forgotten that Hillary voted to send troops to Iraq? You know, back when ISIS wasn’t allowed to gain a foothold?

  • Zyxomma

    I live in NYC, so I have the LUXURY of voting Green if Hillary’s the candidate for the Dems. I have never sat out an election. I vote in every Democratic primary, and every general election, every single year. Once, I even showed up at my polling place when there were NO races in my district, then turned around and walked home. I turned 18 for the 18-year-old vote in 1972, and I ALWAYS vote. I wish every Democrat, Independent, and Green could say the same. They can’t; they stayed home in droves in 2010 and 2014, which is why Congress and the Senate are so messed up now. Apathy gets us Republicans. Register and VOTE.

  • freeulysses

    Why not have articles about supporting Hillary AFTER she wins the primary? Support a healthy debate and fight for the primary first. She’s a lousy candidate, and the only reason there aren’t better ones up there is because she is so corrupt and vindictive they are afraid of challenging her. Democrats should find inspiring candidates that are staunchly in support of human rights and social tolerance, but who are smart on the economy and markets. They would win both their party, and the center. Big Gov 24/7 is a losing ticket no matter who the candidate is, a Clinton or a Bush. You lose the center and the libertarian minded if you go with the establishment power player in either camp.

  • madisontruth

    Hey “armchair Democrats” (meaning those of you who sat out the last midterm elections) and are nervously clutching your 401k. Worry not, Hillary has your back to make sure that Wall St. stays with its current m.o. and isn’t overly regulated. She’s “down” with fracking too.

  • THIS IS SPOT ON……AND BOB J THOMPSON – YOU EPITOMIZE WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICANS WHO CLAIM TO THINK BUT DON’T. however it is likely that Thompson is a troll and Raul should self deport…

    • raulgarcia

      I’m more American than you are buddy. Not to mention much more a Democrat than you will ever be. So go ahead and be another pseudo cop out liberal Democrat and vote for Hillary.

      In the mean time the Democrats can count me out. I’ll be more than happy to watch the Republicans attempt to finish burning this country to the ground. If that’s what it takes for the Democrats and the rest of this country to wake up to reality. So be it. The Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.

  • dividend

    “Too late in the game?” “They would already be a big name?” So much for Bill Clinton in ’92, then.

  • Christopher Bolander

    Do NOT even try to threaten me into voting for Hilary Clinton – I’m done with her!

    • okieggma

      i would bet the farm you were never for her. I can smell a poser.

  • KevinJM1280

    I’ve been playing the “lesser of two evils” game for nearly my entire adult life while both parties moved slightly more to the right each election. Sorry, but I’m done. Give me a Warren or a Sanders to vote for and you might just keep me voting (D) for one more election, but put up another pro-“free”-trade, pro-Wall St., supply-side pseudoliberal like Clinton or Obama and it’s Green Party or write-in for me.

    It might mean some pain in the future, but Democrats haven’t taken liberals in the party seriously in decades because we’ve spent all that time reliably voting against Republicans rather than FOR liberals. If we don’t show them that simply being “not Republican” isn’t enough, then we never will be taken seriously.

  • Leah Marie Travaglini

    Fascism is on the rise—we are no longer a democracy and are crumbling at the seams! GOD HELP US ALL! We are a hypocracy and the world knows it too! Hatred starts from within! “These are the times that try men’s souls!”—Thomas Paine

  • Kojo

    I think the white side of Obama should run for 2016!

  • Bin_Madden

    I already knew that the GOP was a cult, but articles like this make it clear that both polarizations are essentially the same. Big ups to all you out there who elect to think for yourselves, and think for yourselves when you elect.

  • manchmom

    Yo, Alan Cliton. It really ISNT “all that simple”. The reality is that virtually NO one on the left actually expects Warren or Sanders to run in the general election. What we expect is that a strong PRIMARY run by either of these individuals will be the impetus to get Hillary ” GOP Lite” Clinton to go away and make Big Balls Hillary come back out of the closet. We don’t WANT to waste our vote on a 3rd party candidate, but if my choice is Jeb Bush or Jeb ‘ s nearly identical twin sister Hillary, then fuck it. I’ll stay home on the 1st Tuesday in November.

    • Bee Nice

      And, obviously you will be quite proud of your actions. Nothing like throwing out the baby with the bath water. Yes, something to be very proud of. Do you cut off your nose much to spite your face?

    • okieggma

      Why don’t you just stand out in the middle of the street and burn your voter card while whining how this will show them….good grief, grow up.

  • Bill Edley

    I didn’t hear that either Bill or Hill called Justice Ginsberg urging her to retire last
    year, so that Obama had an opportunity to appoint someone younger and healthier than 81 to the Court. Since it’s not a priority with Clintons, it’s not a priority with me. I am refusing to be threatened by bottle necks created to make me vote for the “lesser of two evils.”

    • Bee Nice

      So you really think the Clintons should be pressuring Justice RBG to retire? That is disgusting. And, if they would have, you would be saying they were meddling or applying pressure or some other BS. You are transparent.

  • suziel813

    hillary for president. i like it. i am truly looking forward to it.

    • okieggma

      Me too….these men on here need to get back down to earth.

  • Joe Evony

    Let us take a page out of the republican playbook and use the leverage, momentum and the best candidate we have to “Win This Election”. Don’t screw around 2020 means a census and redistricting and a way to put some fairness back in the electoral system.

    • okieggma

      Smart guy, you did your homework.

  • I live in Texas (yeah, I’m sorry about that also). So I get to vote for the best progressive with a clean conscience. That would be Jill Stein of the Green Party.

  • Patrick

    That argument might have some weight if it weren’t for the Electoral College. The Republican nominee will take my state’s Electoral College votes even if he’s literally speaking in tongues and wearing his underwear outside his pants, and that means there is no pragmatic reason for me to support a Democratic candidate I don’t like over a Green candidate I do like. In fact, if I adopted the kind of political pragmatism Democrats are always telling me I should adopt, I’d have to become a Republican — or move.

  • Bill Edley

    I love these gun to your head articles – “Either support
    Hillary or the Supreme Court will be filled with Clarence Thomas clones.” Really? Last time I checked the Senate had something to do with Supreme Court appointees, and it’s not 50 votes, but 60 votes needed for closure.

    What we do know is that the Democrats from 1930 to 1994 – 60 out of 64 years – held Congressional House Majorities. After President Bill Clinton’s
    first off year election, Democrats held majorities in only 4 of the next 22
    years. FDR/LBJ couldn’t pack the court. I doubt the next Republican President will be able any more successful, unless Senate Democrats decide it’s a good

    In the final analysis, government is about money – who pays
    and who gets. I am much more concerned about Democrats taking back the House and Senate then I am of the Supreme Court suddenly deciding to hang us all from the nearest tree.

    Finally, if Hillary is elected President what type of Supreme Court nominee will she be able to push through a Republican controlled Senate? In my view, not much different than a Republican President will be able to get through a Democratic controlled Senate. Former Justice Souter, considered a liberal, was nominated by Bush I. John Paul Stevens was nominated by President Ford.

    What I feel most ardently is that another President Clinton
    will mean Democrats will cease to be a viable congressional party for decades.

  • MaryLF

    I have some issues with her but I will vote for her if necessary. I threw away my vote on a third party candidate once and won’t make that mistake again. But under-turnout isn’t the only problem; gerrymandering has seriously affected the outcome of many non-national elections too. So we have to turn out even more voters than we think. And electing Democrats is the only way to do try to undo the gerrymandering. I only hope she will run on upholding and advancng President Obama’s accomplishments and not run away or throw shade on them as Clinton backed Allison Grimes did. In fact every Clinton backed candidate list in 2014, I believe. That makes me nervous too.

  • Marceline

    I completely agree. The only thing that matters to me is who will name the next SCOTUS justices. SCOTUS has been one of the biggest factors in so much of what’s gone wrong with our government (Citizens United, Hobby Lobby, picking apart Obamacare, etc…) that there can’t be any real improvement until the composition of the court changes. I refuse to do anything to increase the possibility that a Republican could get the White House.

    • okieggma

      We women know this…why don’t these men? Could it be they are not really Democrats.

  • Hypestyles

    The Democratic Party– nationally– needs to stop running away from
    black people, Latinos, civil rights, the poor and progressive topics in
    general. This always happens, in the pursuit of getting the almighty
    “swing voter independent”= white, over 30, already skeptical toward
    ethnic minorities and gays, uncritically pro-gun in every way,
    hard-right on anything “crime” related, even when it involves nonviolent
    offenses, hard-right on everything birth-control, uncritically
    pro-police, uncritically for as much military spending as possible,
    uncritical regarding corporate profiteerism, uncritical regarding tax
    evasion by corporations, and hostile toward anything that’s perceived as
    “taking” from them but actually helping (e.g., national health care, or
    at least the severely diluted version that exists now).

    Heavy slashing of “entitlement” policy is always vaunted as this big deal of
    pragmatic magnanimity for every Democratic candidate that wants to get
    into office. Expansion of care for the vulnerable is almost never on the

    That’s it. I don’t care anymore. I’ve been voting since I was 18, and I’m sick of finding new ways to get hosed. The Republican party hates me (black, male, urban), and the mainstream wing of the Democratic party really don’t care about me. They’ll always pick the white swing voter over me every time. Every. Single. Time. Urban, minority issues don’t matter at all in comparison.

  • Earl of Sandwich

    I love how you wrote this entire piece without citing one redeeming characteristic about Hillary at all.

  • Wesley Parish

    Teresa Welby did you ever consider Hillary Clinton’s address to the House after voting for the War in Iraq was simply a political back peddling because, she had the foresight to see the criticism coming? She is a real player and if push come to shove yes I will also vite for her over any republican. Although it seems to me your criticism of others believing she is a flip flop artist is naive. She is a savy player in Washington Hillary knows what to say and when to say it but, believing everything she says no matter how many times it is evident that she has changed her mind and pulled a complete 180 is naive.

  • Jeff Newcomer

    People seem to forget!!

    This is what happens when you mess with the Clinton’s!!

    And in case you have forgotten all the other bodies this witch has left in her wake……Just a quick refresher course ‘lest we forget’ what has happened to many “friends” of the Clintons.

    1- James McDougal – Clintons convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.
    2 – Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown .. The murder happened just after she was togo public w:th her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
    3 – Vince Foster – Former White House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
    4 – Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller commited suicide.
    5 – C. Victor Raiser, II – Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
    6 – Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotelroom in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “dear friend and trusted advisor”.
    7 – Ed Willey – Clinton fundraiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
    8 – Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock .. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
    9 – James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
    10 – James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater..
    11 – Kathy Ferguson – Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
    12 – Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
    13 – Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton’s friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
    14 – Florence Martin – Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal, Mena, Arkansas, airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
    15 – Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
    16 – Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
    17 – Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating MenaAirport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
    18 – Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at MenaAirport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993, in his WashingtonDC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
    19 – Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
    20 – Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
    21 – Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
    22 – Dr. Stanley Heard – Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton ‘s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.
    23 – Barry Seal – Drug running TWA pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.
    24 – Johnny Lawhorn, Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
    25 – Stanley Huggins – Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
    26 – Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fundraiser died March 1, 1994, when his plane exploded.
    27 – Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

    28 – Keith Coney – Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
    29 – Keith McMaskle – Died, stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
    30 – Gregory Collins – Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
    31 – Jeff Rhodes – He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
    32 – James Milan – Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to natural causes”.
    33 – Jordan Kettleson – Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
    34 – Richard Winters – A suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

    35 – Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
    36 – Captain Scott J . Reynolds
    37 – Sgt. Brian Hanley
    38 – Sgt. Tim Sabel
    39 – Major General William Robertson
    40 – Col. William Densberger
    41 – Col. Robert Kelly
    42 – Spec. Gary Rhodes
    43 – Steve Willis
    44 – Robert Williams
    45 – Conway LeBleu
    46 – Todd McKeehan

    Quite an impressive list!
    The public must become aware of what happens to friends of the Clintons!


  • rpmcestmoi

    we do not need this preaching shit right now. most of the annoyed liberals like myself will wind up sending checks and proseletyzing in the end if she is the nominee. we are not kamakazee. but many of us find her as false as the lame announcement and hawkish and taking credit for all good things that have happened for women in the 20th & 21st centuries.

    • sam k

      When a third party rises in votes is that the conversations will widen and not be narrowed as we all know they have. it will force the major parties to address the systemic problems that make a destructive two party system prosper. dont be so damn shortsighted people. on all sides. We can help our kids and grandkids by making the two partys anwser the questions and solve the problems that we are blindly leaving to future generations to undo. Campaign finance is out of control on both sides. A incredibly low standard to the nations press, which both parties have continuously kept them in power and kept us from knowing a stronger truth. many important truths are covered up by the government. this stuff is not conspiracy theory just the normal way those in power keep it. Both parties have strengths and weaknesses and until we listen and help raise the standard of these politicians nothing will change. a major way to do this is build enough non two party support (votes) from both sides to scare them into addressing the system itself which isnt the democracy and intellectual nation we could be. We need a more fair system and corrode the political structure by giving up our allegiance to UTTER BULLSHIT parties. we cant be shortsighted it will hurt our children and grandchildren deeply. or i mean we could stick to the old ways and banter in a fake democracy like complete selfish lames.

      • sam k

        if anyone disagrees with me tell me why. i will take no comment as agreement. that is all.

      • okieggma

        Sounds like you read that in a book. It ain’t true.

      • sam k

        the only thing worse than my stupid and unhelpful comment was yours. wasn’t sure it was possible. reading through some of your comments on your profile though i i realized how much you are consistently on that level okieggma

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  • christopher cupp

    I’m not big on politics. But it seems odd in my opinion that when Clinton was in office our great nation had very little dept compared to now. Social security was nowhere near being destroyed as it is now. Hilary Clinton to me was the back bone to bill Clinton. Our nation always views and worries about the most odd things. When the whole situation was coming to an end for Bill. He was still trying to help this nation and all everyone worried about was his marriage. Sometimes we need to set aside our stupid drama and worry about was is important. Just my opinion though, what do I know.

    • okieggma

      Well thank you Christopher… that makes sense. Unlike many of these on here with their heads in the clouds.

  • Cathy Jo

    Everyone should remember that the only voted that matter are the Electoral College…now that should be restructured and we use the popular vote.

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  • nobodobodon

    I’ll vote “lesser of two evils” in the general election, but I’ll vote my conscience in the primaries.

  • Biggle MacGee

    Do presidents simply select supreme court justices now? Is that how it works? That’s a pretty big change, because normally what happens is the President nominates someone, and then there’s a confirmation process that does not involve the President.

    This argument is hopelessly stupid.

  • Dan Conderman

    Telling us we must vote for the lesser of two evils still makes us vote for evil. I will vote for someone that represents my values, eat my ass Dem’s, next time come up with someone that isn’t a fellow scumbag.

  • Bill Johnston

    We are revisiting the politics of 1850’s….The Republicans are totally without morals, principles, vision, etc – and they are now economic Fascists….the Democrats offer nothing but wishy washy crap and have since Carter…look at the Democrats in the 1840’s and 50’s…same thing…and the end is not a pretty sight ! History repeats because no one learns from history….Hell, they don’t even teach it anymore do they?

  • People who make arguments that Clinton is inevitably the nominee, long before any campaigns actually start
    or any primaries
    are likely the very reason why such a candidate will blow the election. History has already proven that billionaires donations and a large bank balance is not a guaranteed lock on winning the presidential race.
    She had tons of money before,
    and so did Romney.
    they LOST.
    ideas and people STILL create more votes than campaign donations.
    people vote, not checkbooks.
    ANY candidate who has the right ideas, the right inspiration can GENERATE the media and campaign momentum to earn votes and win. the presumption of inevitability is exactly what ruins the momentum of inspiration that wins campaigns.
    pre-primary is not the time to abandon principles or idealism.
    Nobody knew who the hell some dark skinned foreign sounding guy,
    named Barak Hussein Obama was
    and those who DID know said exactly the same thing about Hillary’s invincibility and inevitability.
    if history means nothing to you,
    and you are in a hurry to prematurely sell out your values,
    abandon your inspiration and our country
    based on a disproven myth of inevitability…
    then F#$$ YOU.
    That isnt what elections are about.

    • If Hillary doesent create a compelling campaign that INSPIRES people to trust her with their vote, it isnt the voters fault.
      That is like Hollywood movie studio blaming the public for poor ticket sales to a movie nobody wants to see.
      Inevitability is not inspiration.
      Inspiration EARNS action and votes.
      CONDEMNATION for not being inspired doesent win votes.
      It LOSES.
      Bad strategy.
      Unforced error.
      inevitability arguments for Clinton will do more to elect a republican than they will earn support for Clinton.

  • KingAdrock

    4 justices may retire? That’s the exact reason Rand Paul has my vote. It’d be nice to see SOTUS justices who actually care about the Constitution.

  • Peredon

    Start voting locally for candidates that can voice your concerns. That is where the third party will start and become viable.

  • glowplug

    I will not vote for Hillary. Nope. I didn’t vote for Obama and won’t ever (knowingly) vote for a liar, cheat and ______________ (fill in the blanks yourselves). I want to see America restored to her former glory. I want a President that loves this country, upholds the constitution or moves (legally) for changes that may be necessary. I want a president that doesn’t kiss butt of terrorist leaders and thumbs his nose at our allies. I would prefer a Christian but that wouldn’t stop me from voting for the right candidate. I am more interested in integrity than butt kissing. Hillary will lie to save her butt…that is just the tip of the iceberg. Come on folks. Party lines are fine but we need a president who can pull us out of the hole Obama has created on all fronts. Expecially in foreign relations and the economy.

  • MWorrell

    Re: “And spare me this, “I’ll vote for an independent because Americans need to move away from the two-party, corrupt system that’s ruining this country” nonsense. Look, if you want to waste a vote based on principles, that’s your choice.”

    This is the exact same “wasted vote” lecture the true believers in the Republican Party are giving to us conservatives to press us into voting for a prefab Republican candidate. Both major parties are pro war, anti-liberty, pro banks. Time for some new ideas, and Clinton doesn’t have any.

  • waitsmt

    dems worst enemy is the childish peacenik left.

  • angry_professor

    I’ll vote for Hillary if she is the only real choice, and hope she can be dragged (from the right) to the center and then to the left, but, with all due respect to this argument, if she doesn’t address climate change and the rest of the Global Environmental Crisis and (it’s direct links to) the gap in income and wealth, it’s won’t matter who’s on the SCOTUS in ten or twenty years.

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  • Douglas Uhlinger

    This column is so foolish and so badly written that I smell a rat. This is not the time for consider-the-alternative arguments. Let everyone run, and don’t alienate their supporters. I support Hillary for many reasons: intelligence, courage, right on so many of the issues I care about, an inspiration to women, she will be right on the Supreme Court, clearly right on health care. I also happen to be really really good with the idea that we get Bill too, a major political talent on the right side, again, of so many of my issues. Why would anyone at this stage in the game who really supports Hillary write this lame, well, she’s better than the evil on the other side, nonsense?

  • bryan

    Funny how the article completely forgot to mention that Rand Paul is a candidate. A candidate that polled higher than most of the other GOP candidates.

  • Waiting for perfection? Your personal progressive hero(ine)? If we don’t
    continue the fight against the right (step by step), they will crush us
    in 2016. Senator Warren will make a great Majority Leader.

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  • johnnyboyjohn

    Gay marriage is going to be legal, nationwide. Marijuana is going to be legal, eventually. And Hillary Rodham Clinton is going to be the next president.

    Everyone had better get used to these concepts because they’re all going to happen, like it or not.

  • AmeliaBedelia

    (in the manner of Quantum Leap) Oh boy…

  • Sisboombah


  • TransitDave

    All these musings remind me so much of how I and my friends felt about Bob Dole back in ’96…….We voted for him because we didn’t have anyone else, and Billy Boy beat him like a drum. The same way Walker/Rubio will beat Hillary and whatever poor slob she runs with.

    If the Dems had any sense at all Jim Webb would at least be a contender, but he’s getting no traction at all. Lucky for us conservatives, they have Hillary instead.

  • Jesse David Huckabay

    As far as HRC probably being the lesser of two evils people should probably vote for her, but I’m really tired of the Democratic establishment dismissing the very real concerns (TPP, failure to persecute bankers to name a few) of many on the left by telling them to stop whining. What about blaming HRC for failing to take on the concerns of progressives rather than blaming these progressives for whining. Being marginally better than truly awful GOP candidates may be enough to get there votes but don’t expect people to be happy about it.

  • MaynardDizzy

    Anything can happen to a candidate, they may fall ill or something devastating comes out, all sorts of things happen in a campaign. At this stage in the game leading into the primary season, to only have one candidate is suicide. Candidates learn from each others popular stands and modify their platforms. Having a ‘this is it take it or leave it ‘ now is harbinger of bad things to come.

  • midnightnc47

    I remember the last DNC convention in Charlotte …. and the phony vote to put God in the party platform …..hahaha

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  • RepPress

    This article is really manipulative. What kind of “forward progressive” acts like there is no Democratic Primary? You want to sabotage all efforts to fight for someone better in the PRIMARY by acting like we aren’t even entitled to a primary? Listen, we get to vote in the primary AND the general election so we don’t need manipulators trying to lock us into a candidate well over a year before the election. See this video:

  • Lie_Buster

    This editorial is a load of b.s. …. plane, simple and to the point. Hillary Clinton “better?” Puhleeze. Spare me. Hillary Clinton will do as Obama has done – surround herself with the scum of the earth and appoint the scum of the earth. The author of this article is saying vote for the lesser evil. What “lesser” evil? Obama & Clinton are a Republican’s dream. Invasion of Libya – War. Invasion of Yemen – War. Invasion of Somalia – War. Continuation of Iraq & Afghanistan – War. Continuation of torture and kidnap in Guantanamo. Signature on Patriot Act and NDSA. Israel is their lord & master. When Israel commits genocide, it is hawked as “the right to defend itself.” Hitler was not even so vile as to pull that one. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumass. The distance between the two are null and void. In fact, Democrats can get away with more of this slimy stuff than a typical republican. When Democrats follow the alleged Republican agenda, the phony human rights, civil rights blusterers are silent, lest anyone notices that the Democrat is more Republican than the Republican. Hillary Clinton is part and parcel to mass murder in Libya. So the real “choice” (hahahahahaha – “choice”) is between THAT devil of THIS devil.

  • Dee Sachetti

    It is obviously the Clinton Machinery has done their homework very well and getting even the media to say it is a known conclusion that it is Hillary Clinton or a Republican that will be our President. Greattttttttttt for all the sheepl that have illusions of a different Hillary Clinton on a pedestal leading this country. However, one should not dismiss the many people who did not vote for her in the last election for a very good reason, are they going to have a sudden change of heart? I highly doubt it. I recall seeing all this media and poll numbers in HRC’s favor in the last election and people would scoff at anyone thinking she was not going to win. I, for one was an Independent and once I heard Barack Obama I knew from the onset that this man was the person I wanted to represent my values. I changed immediately to become a Dem just so I could vote in the Primary. I campaigned for this man and was involved in as many movements and grass roots activities as I could. I voted for him twice and I have never ever been sorry. The idea that one has to contend with the shenanigans of a Clinton again not only baffles me it makes me wonder if all this Clinton Machinery in action re the media, and even much of the press was not put into action almost 2 years in advance of the elections giving the most propaganda since Toyko Rose would these people (25 and younger especially) support her? What in God’s name has she ever done that they know of besides being the first woman president candidate? Do they even know that most all of our foreign countries have had a female president for a very long time now? Watching her in the WH as FL disgusted me as she represents people you may have known or worked with that think they are above the law and they will manipulate the system to their benefit. This has been true of WJC as well and HRC …………guess people are just gluttons for their own punishment.

  • Stephen Cromwell

    Sounds so familiar.
    Switch a few names around and it could just as easily have been written by a Republican voter in 2008 or 2012. Let’s hope Clinton is as big a turn-off for her base as McCain and Romney were for theirs.

  • nyc girl

    This sounds like the boilerplate fear mongering that we hear every four years. Both parties are owned by Wall Street. There IS no changing this broken system from within. The two corporate parties simply won’t allow it. And a lot of us know it. And we’re not having it. And don’t you dare try to blame the voters. We’re not having THAT anymore either. Lesser evil? Forget it.

  • Moe Profane

    Give O’Malley a chance!

    This sort of thinking is what gives Hillary the sense of inevitability. If enough people aren’t comfortable with her, then she needs to be put up against others to see most of us can get behind.

    Of all the people on the left bitching, she isn’t going to fix much of that. She’s one of them.

    I get it. She’s better than Rand Paul. Great. But she’s not better than O’Malley. People just need to start finding out who he is.

  • PrairiefireOriginal

    History has shown that the Supreme Court, when it tries to buck a sea change in American politics, cannot hold out for long. If the Democratic Party were to renounce its global corporatist puppeteers and take the lead in bringing about the pro-democracy, pro-middle class revolution our nation needs, they would start winning nearly every election and the Supreme Court would be no barrier. It would fall into line soon enough.

    And what, you might ask, is keeping the Democratic Party from doing that?

    Stockholm-syndrome-type thinking like that we see in this article. If enough of the People turned their back on the establishment’s picks for Republican and Democratic nominees and started to think for ourselves, we would see the changes our nation and this planet need. If we continue to limit ourselves to picking only from the bad options the corporatist masters present to us, we will get only more pain.

  • Herman Snerd

    I would vote for Hillary for bordello madam of any cat house in Nevada. One hundred sixty million liberals and she’s the best you can do? Pitiful.

  • slopemope

    So… get over “it” and get behind Hillary because its all you have otherwise the republicans will take over the world. While the message is highly premature, preaching to the choir who *will* ultimately vote for Hillary is fine, but the middle will decide who becomes president. And once again we have to pick from the most savory choices of gruel on the table. The stew will need to be lightly forked through to see which ones have insects and which ones have mold, and they will pick the one which in the end simply hides its unsavory appeal further beneath the surface where the bland middling voter pretends nothing bad exists. In essence, the victor will be the one that convinces the middlers that the chocolate covered roach is in fact a brand new formula of crunchy caramel goodness. It is going to be a long ride.

    • Chuck Kassing

      Except a few of those roaches have Yersinia pestis. or Vibrio cholerae and I’m not a fan.. Hillary ain’t even claose to perfect but she isn’t TRump or Cruz..

  • sky35

    Hillary is so extremely ANTI-CONSUMER that she has opposed letting
    Americans know that genetically-engineered substances and poisons like
    glyposate ( RoundUp) are in most all food in the US that is not organic.

    60 countries around the world label GMO stuff ( including Communist
    China ) yet Hillary OPPOSES labels that would inform consumers.

    Do you realize that there are laws that require food producers to tell
    us if food has been homogenized or comes from concentrate, or even if it
    contains water ?!

    Yet when it comes to actual harmful stuff that poisons us and our
    children and kills honeybees, Hillary wants to keep us in the dark.

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  • suziel813

    FELLOW AMERICANS: stop the hatred. do not listen to the so called righteous conservatives that feel superior in their own right. god loves us all. we all need to stand up for our right to co-exist on this planet. who gives them the right to feel they are better than any of us. the only way we will change is by not enabling these haters, and showing them that we know they need and want attention, as they are not happy in their own lives. well guess what, they can be. but they choose to make themselves known as haters, bigots and misogynist. if they choose to be unhappy, let them. we will be able to stand up to these bullies. and they are everywhere, they will continue their persecution as long as we enable them. STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES. STOP THIS MADNESS. AND on another note, just saying. employees are the ones who make the money for the employer. yes it is good when the employer hires, but they should be all knowing that without their employee, they would not have a business. turn our country around and say “NO” to corporate greed. bring america back to where it should be. if employers do not want to pay for their help and stop their greed for profits, then put them out of business. period. it is what makes the world go around. it is honest and true to each other. if we keep enabling the greedy, we will get more of the same. if they are greedy, who needs them, anyway. they should be ousted. time to take control of the helm, america. let’s do it

  • Bill

    Texas hasn’t elected a Democratic POTUS since Carter. My vote will be either symbolic as it’s been for my entire life, or the vast diaspora of nonaligned and disenfranchised citizens will come together and smack down the social terrorist, economic predator establishment that Mrs. Clinton and all the Republican candidates serve. Sanders is the only one who can unite the Left, seduce moderate Republicans, and fight the scum.

    Your SCOTUS boogieman and lesser of two evils trope is disingenuous and manipulative. #Sanders2016

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  • Joel Cochran

    I cannot support Hillary, because she does not represent my values… she will not even speak to my values. That is why i am pledging all of my support to Bernie. At least he will SPEAK to my values, as long as he is in the race. I won’t waste my vote, but i won’t give it to Clinton as anything more than the lesser of 2 evils. I will not give my support to someone who hires a Monsanto lobbyist to help run her campaign (that in itself, is almost enuf to keep me home as a non-vote)…

  • bknapp

    So Hillary Clinton endangers national security by using a personal email server for classified and sensitive documents and that’s okay with you. Don’t pretend for a minute that if that was Jeb Bush or any other Republican that you would not be demanding his impeachment. You all are so pathetically two-faced. At least if Hillary was in my party, I would be demanding she be held to account, and maybe even serve prison time. I would not be promoting her for president. I guess that’s the difference between conservatives and liberals, as long as the person is on your side of the fence you have no problems with them, no matter how brazen the crime.

    Don’t pretend she didn’t do anything wrong. Others with far less responsibility for classified documents have faced far greater consequences for their actions than she has.

    • freen the merciless

      hillary didn’t use the personal email servers for national security issues. she used them to coordinate the lesbian pyjama parties. didn’t you get the memo?

  • freen the merciless

    Again. it’s about SCOTUS. citizen’s united, hobby lobby, roe.v.wade. this is for all the marbles, kids. I hope that the bernie and liz show pulls hillary far enough left to make her stink a little less. either way, we got to hold our nose and vote for the nasty hoe in november.

    • Chuck Kassing

      At least your honest and have your head in the game..Bravo..Now just convince all these Tea Party style fanatics of the same.

  • haywoodjablowme

    Ye that’s sounds great 90 year old men and woman who are on the supreme court. I have served in the military during the Clinton administration. It was not good. I scraped body parts from the Cole bombing. And watched Osama bin Laden. Let freed by his aministation allow him to return to Afghanistan. In spite of the cooperation of the Nairobi governments apprehension of him following the Cole bombing And overwhelming evidence of his involvement. I am no big defender of George Bush but after those two big big buildings fell in NYC. 3000 Americans died. George Bush got the blame no doubt. But no American was opposed to our military actions to follow were opposed. With that being said I am not a big supporter of our invation of Iraq although I participated. With that said as a 25 year retired vet. I have watched our bill of of rights disappear. And to think that the current supreme court justices will be in charge to eliminate the rest makes me want to leave the country. Killary is just a disaple of King Obama.

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  • Matthew Edelblute

    Undo the good that has been done the last 6 years? That is hilarious!!

    • Chuck Kassing

      Watch what TRump or Cruz will do to America..You really think they are about Liberty and Freedom??

  • Kingscairn

    I’m all for it..Pillary Clinton and her bloody necklace of the Benghazi Four, she’ll do just fine following up on Obamas euthanasia of America by bleeding it with Solyndra, cash for clunkers, cash for caulkers, welfare for foreigners, latino childen crowding out and taking education resources that tax payers pay for…hell yeah, 18trillion and counting (that can’t be fixed) but who cares now, certainly not the sheeple… Clintons coup de gras is welcome… nothing will really change until the fires rage and the slaughter begins, it’s going to get ugly – should I call you ‘comrades’ – we are definately “beyond the point of no return” .
    Man, I hate liberals and will live to piss on George Soros’ grave …. my ass !

    • freen the merciless

      put the bong down, bucko.

  • Douglas Sherman

    Regarding Sanders being a ‘self-described socialist.’ Is that really all it takes for people, not all people but the voting public, to write him off? Is it too much to ask that people dig a little deeper than socialist = bad. Just off the top of my head, what’s a socialist? Someone who favors social policies like social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, etc. Are those things bad? Sure there’s a subset of the voting public that believes those social welfare programs are bad. I believe their argument is ‘cut my taxes and let those people fend for themselves.’ Do we really want to live in a society where it’s every person for themselves and he/she with the most money wins?

    Jus’ sayin’

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  • Jason Menadue

    I’ve got a message for the author of this article. I don’t really care about those Supreme Court Justice nominations. I will NOT vote for Hillary. I’m tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. There are many other people like me, too. If the DNC elite gives Hillary the nod over Bernie Sanders, I will handwrite Bernie’s name on the ballot as my ‘none of the above’ selection. If the DNC wants ‘scorched earth’ voting, they’ll get it and we’ll hand the GOP a gift. Hillary is ‘GOP Lite’ and is as untrustworthy as the day is long. Period.

    • freen the merciless

      wah wah wah. you really want 3 or 4 scalia clones on the supremes just because you think hillary has bad breath? we’re talking about theo-corporo-fascist paradise. this isn’t the DNC elite’s problem. this is your problem. do yourself a favor and watch the republican debates. that’s what’s coming if you and other idiots throw your vote away.

      • Chuck Kassing


        These are people who want to reenact Slavery (Remember the American Nazi’s Just endorsed the GOP front runner). Just forget about work place safety ,,every GOP candidate has said they want to get rid of EPA, Dept. ED and OSHA…

  • Libertarian73

    Lot of smart people on these boards, I can see. I enjoy talking with freedom-loving liberals that don’t hate those who disagree with a few of your policies. Yeah Hillary isn’t the best and ideal candidate for the Democrats, but compared to the Republicans it’s really her election to lose.

    I know where I stand, and I’m not voting for either party. Gary Johnson will get my vote yet again.

    I do have to say that Bernie Sanders is a likeable old fellow, even if you disagree with his far-left socialist ideology. Likeability is not a strong suit for Hillary like it is for Sanders (or was for Obama).

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  • Guest

    There is no difference in voting for Hillary or a republican. Hillary might as well be a republican. I will never vote republican so if Hillary wins our primaries I’m staying home. We need to send a message
    Sanders for President!!!

  • Dillon Roberts

    I WILL NOT BE VOTING IF HILARY GETS THE NOMINATION. SANDERS WILL WIN, QUIT SPOUTING HORSE SHIT. he has so much support from millenials. i believe people my age (millenials) will show up to the polls in enormous numbers in support of sanders this election. i was through with this trash article the second you said sanders wouldn’t win. fuck Hilary, she’s just as bad as the GOP. i’d probably vote for Rand Paul before i voted for her, that’s how much i hate her.

    • Dillon Roberts

      the fact that Sanders is a socialist is exactly why i like him. i also like libertarians (hence the Ron/Rand Paul vote). i self identify as a democratic social libertarian. fuck the Dems and fuck the Reps. you’re two party nonsense can shove it

    • Chuck Kassing

      You do realize, your “people” are INFAMOUS for being all about candidates and then not showing up 2nd Tuesday in November..Your people cost us the Senate..So please get some reality pills.

  • slickster

    Hillary has lost any credibility during her email debacle. You might as well vote for Bernie, even if he is a socialist. He has integrity.

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  • Wearyartist

    I hate to tell you but the only vote you make that counts is in the primaries. The electoral college already knows who they’re voting for and they don’t give a rat’s @$# what the rest of us think

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  • ndo1230

    More Hillary propoganda. You lost me when you called Bernie a Socialist. If he’s not on the D ticket, my vote ( if I vote at all and if I don’t it will be a first in 20+ years) is up for grabs. Sorry. Done with the corporate owned candidates and if there EVER needed to be further proof the system is rigged, the way the DNC, this group and the national (D) entities are shoving Hillary down my throat is all the proof I need. ps I didn’t see a mention of how old Hillary will be when she takes office if elected – hidden agenda much?

    • Chuck Kassing

      Uhhmmm,, Bernie called Bernie a Socialist Repeatedly including in the last week…So did BErnie lose you as a voter too?

  • jaybird

    #Bernie2016 #Women4Bernie #BLMforBernie #Latinos4Bernie#VetsforBernie #Theworld4Bernie

  • Laurie Wingo LeVal

    I would love to see a conservative be POTUS. Then we would restore moral values in the Supreme Court and allowing God to be taken out of this country!

  • As a long-time liberal that leans socialist (possibly way moreso than Bernie)

    If Hillary is the nominee, I’d tell everyone to begin voting Trump or Kaisch. Even Jim Hedges is better, and he wants to put the prohibition amendment back in! I would rather see the whole country burned down, than risk another 8 years of betrayal. It’s about time to call it quits and start over. I leave you all with one last thing to remember.

    Family Entertainment Protection Act. If you wouldn’t vote for Jerry Falwell, you shouldn’t vote for Shillery.

  • Old Man

    My problem with Hillary is she’s a republican.

  • grngrl

    I live in a very Red State, so no matter whom I vote for, the Republican candidate will get the electoral votes from my state. If Bernie gets the nomination, then he gets my vote. If not, I’m voting for the Green Party, whomever their candidate may be. I will not vote for Hillary, as she represents more of the same war-mongering, neoliberalism, just like every President since Reagan, including the first Clinton and Obama (both of which I voted for twice BTW). I agree that the right-wingers are bat-sh!+ crazy and hope none of them become President, but this will be the 7th Presidential election I’ve been able to vote in and I will no longer be beholden to the Democratic Party that refuses to support Progressive ideals.

    With all that being said. If you live in a Purple Swing State,
    then by all means, please vote for the Democratic candidate, whether it is
    Bernie or Hillary. The author is correct about the importance of controlling
    the Supreme Court nominating process and in Purple States, your vote actually matters. As a Red State resident, I finally have the option to vote my conscience, and I plan to do so. #feelthebern

  • kentandrewlang67

    I’ll only for for those who favor a small federal gov’t. Need to knock big brother down a few notches.

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  • John Hopskin

    Either get on board with Hillary Clinton, even if she’s not everything you’ve dreamed of. – or – Whine because Sanders probably won’t win the nomination, become apathetic, then let Republicans win the White House in 2016; likely replace four Supreme Court Justices over the following 8 years; start a war with Iran; ruin the planet; destroy our economy again; and undo all the good that’s been done these last 6 years.

    I am a swing voter.

    Here is your third option.

    If you do not vote for Bernie in the primiaries, I will vote for Trump.
    I do not like Hilary for she is a corporate shrill. Kinda like how Bush was a coporate shrill.

    • Chuck Kassing

      Yeah, right..So let me get this right..Sanders or Trump???? ANd how does that work?

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  • Roshan

    Polls show Sanders to be as electable or more than Hilllary against leading Republican candidates, and this despite media blackouts on him.There is just no reason to be arguing against voting for Sanders in the primary unless you want Clinton period.

    • Chuck Kassing

      That’s because the GOP hate Machine is solely aimed at Hillary..Which should tell you something..IT’s not even like they are caring about Bernie..They are literally trying to HELP him get the nomination (that came out in the news today, quotes from GOP operatives) ..

      So what does that tell you..the GOP WANTS Bernie to get the Nomination..Do you really think it’s becasue they just love him as aperson and think his policies are peachy?

      • Roshan

        Fair point about the hate machine aimed at Clinton influencing poll results, but they direct it at her because they truly loathe and despise the Clintons, and will go to any lengths to destroy them, including attempting impeachment. It has nothing to do with wanting Sanders to be the candidate so he can lose, as you perhaps imply. They just don’t see him as a potential candidate just as they didn’t with Trump. Their own myopia.

  • Marshall Taylor

    Are you serious? So many scandals and unethical behavior even if 10% of it is true she has non business being President. She doesn’t care about the american people she is just power and money hungry…… Power at all cost. Please wake up.

    • Chuck Kassing

      Spoken like a true GOP troll!

      • Roshan

        So everyone who disagrees with you doesn’t really exist?

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  • Ruth Ford

    I’ll be voting for Sanders in the Primary, because I feel he’s consistently been more of a progressive than Clinton and our best choice for a brighter future. However, if Hillary wins the nomination, I will vote for her in November.

    If Bernie wins that nomination, I certainly hope that the greater percentage of Clinton supporters will do the same and support him on election day.

  • Dennis M Dewey

    You had me reading up to the point about Bernie Sanders being a self-described socialist. For a political science major, you must have had help from your peers. He is not a socialist is the historical sense of what made that a dirty word (and neither were the Russians). There’s a huge difference between being book smart and really knowing what it is your actually talking about. It’s really a non-issue anyways because, if Hillary wins the primary, I’m obviously going to vote for her in the general election. I just know that Clinton will be more of the same populism / centrism that tries too hard to be everyone’s friend. I want another FDR and I see that same kind of spirit in Bernie Sanders. Clinton is a chameleon that changes her mind based on which way the wind is blowing.

  • sevven

    Smh. The true “harsh reality” that ALL Democratic voters “need to face” is that $hillary will NOT win a general election, and so, if she takes the nomination (she can’t “win it” legitimately), the DNC will be electing a Republican President.

    Smarten up, people! Only Bernie Sanders can beat ANY and ALL of the Republican candidates!!!!

  • patb2009

    so now that Sanders shows that he performs well in head to head polling, is it time to revisit this?

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  • mickrussom

    Seems like you all have a PLAN to legislate from the bench. Seems rather treasonous.

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  • Songwriting

    I am tired of the Hillary people calling the race after the first furlong.

    Claiming Bernie “can’t” get elected. He most certainly can.

    The argument that 41% of DEMOCRATS won’t elect a socialist – is specious at best. That means a MAJORITY of Democrats will vote for a socialist and then put the shoe on the other foot – will Hillary supporters stay at home and risk giving the White House to the GOP – with Supreme Court picks and all that?

    Who represents the Government that we WANT. Period.

    To say it’s impossible to go to the moon – means you won’t even try to go to the moon. You have to set a goal and work towards it. The people who believe in Hillary AGAINST Bernie are like people in an abusive relationship who after years of being told they can’t do anything – refuse to believe anything is possible so they settle for something they don’t really want.

    Vote for which candidate you WANT to be president. Period.

    If Hillary is who you want – if her goals and ideas are your – more power to you. Me? I am voting for Bernie Sanders. I like his vision. So what if Republicans block it? They will block anything Hillary tries as well. So what if single-payer healthcare is CURRENTLY impossible – if we back Bernie – and others like him … eventually it will be possible.

    No one ever achieved anything standing on the ground telling themselves that what they really want is impossible – you have to dream – you have top reach for what you want.

  • masswaster

    Still trying to scare us with the Supreme Court? Of course since Clinton is losing. Here’s the answer – elect Sanders and he can appoint Clinton to the Supreme Court.

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  • togeika

    I will vote for a Jew: Bernie or Jill Stein. Better to loose 2016 and win 2020 if someone like Clinton runs & can’t bring the House and Senate with her.

  • As I see it, America is like an alcoholic in denial. We have serious troubles in this country Hillary won’t make it better and she can’t beat trump so maybe 4 years to let the country burn will wake up enough people and a phoenix can rise from the ashes.

    If not my guess is people will start shooting at the focus of their rage.

  • jbagram

    Your article is patronizing to Bernie Sanders supporters. I’m not “whining” and as far as I am concerned all this talk is more media c…p to swing voters to Hillary. I’m disappointed in the DNC and their promotion of the Clinton’s. Today I was listening to an African-American woman asking Chelsea Clinton about her father’s stance on black laws, etc. Chelsea, said they were sorry and about three years ago her dad “apologized” to the NAACP. Well, good for the Clinton’s. Bernie Sanders doesn’t have to apologize for any of his votes, or comments he has made. I am with him to the end. So you can stop trying to get this Bernie Sanders supporter to rollover, cause it ain’t gonna happen charlie.

  • Jan Allen

    The problem is, I seriously doubt Hillary will appoint liberal judges, seeing as she is a conservative republican herself. She doesn’t fulfil 60-70% of my wish list. She is part of the problem. Personally I think she is the biggest danger because she will push through conservative republican agenda and the dems won’t stand up to her, since the DNC has sold it’s soul to the corporations as well. She will push through conservative agenda and no one will stand up to her. The republican will be happy she is ‘getting things done the way the want it. The dems wouldn’t be able to lose face for shoving her down our throats. I will vote for Jill Stein before I vote for a conservative republican pretending to be a dem.

    Overturning citizens united is the biggest issue for me. Hillary is in their pocket. She will not get that overturned, she won’t even try.

    Besides, It is not over for Bernie. Obama lost much of the same states Hillary has won so far. It didn’t turn out so well for her in the end. Bernie actually polls very well in the general election.

    so if HIllary is so strong in the general, you don’t need our vote, then do you?

    Many Bernie supporters would never vote for HIllary regardless if Bernie had run or not. Because they just don’t like her at all. They don’t trust her. They see her as dangerous for the country.

    And apparently the DNC wasn’t worried about getting bernie supporter votes either or that Trump would win if she doesn’t get our vote, or they would not have been so blatantly bias in this primary.So don’t come back to Bernie supporters and say if we don’t vote for Hillary ,Trump will win. Well many of us already think Trump will beat Hillary, because independants, moderate republicans, green party, etc will not vote for her . She has too much unpleasant baggage herself. She is a war monger. WE are sick of war.

    I see HIllary as the great danger. She will push through the conservative republican agenda, she will make sure Citizens united is not overturned, because her masters don’t want it overturned. The republicans will be thrilled with her because she will give them exactly what they want. The dems won’t stand up to her, because they have shoved her down our throats, and the DNC is just as corrupt as the republicans and they all sold their soul and our future to the corporations.

    So don’t even try to guilt Bernie supporters into voting for that war mongering corporate shill. The DNC wanted her so bad they are willing to rig the election. They can have her, but don’t expect all of us Bernie supporters to fall in line and support her. Some will, but a good many of us will never vote for her. If Trump wins, then that is on her for being such a poor candidate. And it is on the DNC for running a biased primary.

    Some of us have chosen to finally stop voting for the ‘lesser evil’. If the country wants to elect evil, then we’ll all just have to live with the outcome. Because I will no longer, never again, vote for the lesser evil. I will only vote for candidates who represent me. If I can’t vote for Bernie, then Jill Stein will get my vote.

  • Irene Berns

    you lost me on the first sentence #NeverHillary

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  • SocialJustice

    Wait I’m confused.

    “likely replace four Supreme Court Justices over the following 8 years; start a war with Iran; ruin the planet; destroy our economy again; and undo all the good that’s been done these last 6 years.”

    This was describing what Hillary “Deregulate the banks and vote yes on every single war” Clinton would do right? Sounds like it. I thought you were going to compare Trump and Hillary, not just give us two facts about a Hillary presidency.

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  • TexasVetgal

    Clinton crime family should not be anywhere near the presidency. Hillary’s hacked email server will provide ample data for decades to come for anyone wishing to blackmail this evil b|tch.

    Gucifer and Putin (and possibly many others) have 20,000 emails, many of which are rife with information that makes her vulnerable to ongoing blackmail. Which of course the American people would never be apprised of, in the event of her presidency. Corruption, lies, malfeasance and incompetence are not traits of an American President. PERIOD.

  • Mike S

    What is it like in your funny little brain. It must be so boring.

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  • bptr

    The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to support corporate PROFITS and the 1%. They do this by lying, cheating, and conning the deluded ignorant Reactionaries with false issues like gay marriage, immigration, abortion, flag burning just to get votes so they can pursue their real agenda: helping rich assholes while laughing at you working-class morons who fall for their bs.
    They also use witch-hunt “scandals” and whatever lies and total shit they can dream up. They just spread these lies on Faux News and fatass rich cult leader am radio shows that filter out all calls from all dissenters.

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  • Miki2X33

    I will never forgive the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz for cramming Hillary Clinton’s corporate liberalism down our throats, when the REAL popular candidate was Bernie Sanders. Sanders should’ve won! Now let’s see if Trump protects Social Security & Medicare like he promised, or just cheats all the working people who actually voted for him, while Trump seeks the approval of Republicans like Paul Ryan. There will be riots if Trump follows typical Ryan Republican policies like privatizing grandma’s Social Security.

  • Kevin Swizzelistic Papa

    Allen, I love your articles. Keep up the great work! 🙂