A Must-See Example of Republican Voting Ignorance

dunce_2It goes without saying I have a lot of debates with Republicans.  It’s just the nature of this business.  But I try to avoid political debates with family, friends or even acquaintances.  Well, last night I broke that rule.

While I was online doing some research, a casual acquaintance who I’ve talked to a few times messaged me.  It started civil, until they began pressing me on politics.  I tried to divert the subject but they insisted.

What followed?  Well—I’ll just let you read it for yourself:

*I took out their name and edited any information that might be of a personal nature.  Other than that, the conversation is unedited. 

Me: I take it you’re a Republican

Republican: Very much

Me: Well yeah.  You’re out in the country.  Rural = Republican.

Republican: No, these idiots don’t vote correctly out here….I’m not for the poor….I had to work to get where I’m at and don’t get any help from the govt.

Me: You’re not for the poor?  So you think everyone can do the exact same things you did because you did them?  And trust me, you get a lot of help from the government.

Republican: I didn’t want to sit in my ass and do nothing and expect to get money….I have a disability but you don’t see me trying to take advantage

Me: Okay.  So what about someone with a disability that simply can’t do what you do and must rely on the government, are they a lazy freeloader?  Or what if your disability eventually renders you unable to work?

Republican: As long as they have made some effort in life.  I have family that will take care if me.

Me: Oh, and I hate to break it to you, there are millions of Republicans who rely on welfare and government assistance.  So being a Republican has nothing to do with “not accepting help from the government.”  Family can take care of you all they want, but you still rely on the government every single day.

Republican: I’m my own person and don’t really care what others think….Ann Romney is in the same boat I’m in.

Me: I really doubt that.  Unless you’re worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Republican: We have the same disease

Me: Ok?  So, your perspective in life is judge everyone who might not do what you do because you overcome something.

Republican: Yep

Me: Question, where did you go to school?

Republican: Which school?

Me: College

Republican: Tarleton State, TVCC and TJC

Me: Congrats, you went to all state schools with tuition that’s subsidized by the government.  Subsidies which are paid for with tax dollars.

Republican: And i was told I can’t get anymore loans and I make too much for grants to finish and has to pay cash for some of the school

Me: Did you get grants before?

Republican: Nope

Me: Did you get Stafford loans?

Republican: Nope

Me: So then who’s saying you can’t get anymore loans?

Republican: Sallie Mae

Me: Umm…those are federal subsidized loans and yes they do have caps.

Republican: Hey, wouldn’t they want more money from me?

Me: So you went to public schools with subsidized tuition and used federal subsidized loans.  So I hate to break it to you, but that’s getting help from the government.

Me: Well the program itself has caps otherwise people could in theory continually get loans to stay in school and never pay the loans back.

Republican: I would to not pay my loans, but I do have a little voice that tells me to do the right thing …..this is why I hate discussing crap….you’re not going to change my mind and I’m glad you’re book smart.

Me: But you’re basing a belief on hypocrisy.  Which is my point.  You say you don’t rely on the government and did it all on your own—except you didn’t.  Your tuition that you were billed was cheaper thanks to government subsidies for state institutions of higher learning and you used government loans to help pay for it.  That’s the definition of getting help from the government.

Republican: Ok I will tear up my degree and throw it away, stop doing my injections and live in my truck so I can say I’m not getting help.

Me: Well, it would make you less of a hypocrite than calling others who get different forms of government assistance freeloaders and lazy then judging them for doing so.  I’m not begrudging your degree or how you got it, you’re actually doing that.

Republican: I’m just a fortunate person that has a hard working ethic.

Me: So are a lot of people who just have bad luck in life and need help.  Those you judge.  I know people who work 40 hours a week and still need government help, are they lazy?

Republican: I have bad luck too….

Me: To some, not as bad as theirs

Republican: I’m paying on bills from being in ICU last year, I don’t have health insurance, yet i work in the the healthcare industry.

Me: Then you should love the Affordable Care Act.

Republican: Umm no!

Me: Oh, you don’t love a law which will make health insurance affordable for people who can’t afford it?  Requires women not be given higher premiums because of their gender and allows people with pre-existing conditions to get coverage?

Republican: It has been affordable..

Me: Actually, you might not like it.  Rick Perry has done all he can in Texas to sabotage the law, so premiums here might actually be going up.  If he had allowed for state exchanges which would create competition and drive down costs, then you would benefit.  But ether way based on your income whatever health insurance you do purchase will qualify you for tax breaks.

Me: Well if it’s affordable, why don’t you have health insurance?

Republican: My company doesn’t offer it at all and I have all the help from the drug companies….

Me: See, there is where Republicans are screwing people like you.  In states that want the bill to work, they’re opening state exchanges where you could purchase health insurance privately at a subsidized costs—much like your college degree and student loans.  Except, Rick Perry has fought against those so as of now Texas won’t have those and you’re still stuck without health insurance.

Republican: That’s your opinion…don’t throw me in the whole mix.

Me: That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.  You don’t have health insurance because your job doesn’t offer it.  If Perry had allowed Obamacare to work, Texas would create state exchanges which would provide people such as yourself access to affordable health care.  He did not, and people like you now will have to pay MUCH more for health insurance.  Though you’ll still receive tax breaks.  So that’s not an “opinion” that’s a fact.

Republican: I’m one of those that will deal with it….I love my residents too much to go find another position.

Me: So you’ll continue to support a party which is screwing you over, costing you thousands.  Makes perfect sense.

Republican: The only thing I don’t like about the Republican party is the abortion issue…I’m all for it.

Me: You should dislike the fact that you don’t have health insurance because they’re sabotaging the health care law.

Republican: I know, but I can make it on my own and not really worried about it

Me: That doesn’t make any sense.  You support a party that makes your life harder.

Republican: I don’t want to be disowned…..

Me: Ah, there’s those good “Christian” Republican morals.  Disowning a child if they happened to not be a Republican?  That’s insane.

Republican: I’m very loyal….you don’t even know me and make a lot of assumptions.

Me: You should be loyal to friends, family—not political ideology.

Republican: All of the above….that’s how I was raised.

Me: Who gives a damn?  Political ideology shouldn’t be set in stone.

Republican: I do.

Me:  THAT is the problem.  If your political beliefs are a system set up by “that’s how I was raised” you’ve turned your political ideological beliefs into a faith-like cult.

Republican: Why can’t you let me be…I didn’t want this stupid argument anyways….if I wanted to be lectured, I would be in class.

Me: That’s funny.  I talked about brainwashed people who have a political ideology based on facts not myths.  And you’re one of those.  You support a party which screws you over.  You judge people for getting help when YOU got help.  You don’t have health insurance because of the party YOU support—but you don’t want to talk about those FACTS because you were “raised this way.”  That’s a problem.

Republican: Believe what you want.

Me: These aren’t opinions.

Republican: I see it that way….I need more ammo for my guns!!!!!

Me: That’s the problem.  You think facts are opinions.  They’re not.  Reality doesn’t become “a matter of opinion” simply because you don’t want to agree with it.

Republican: Where are you getting them from….probably the Internet

Me: It’s called reading, research, science, education, math, logic.  Where are you getting yours?  “Because that’s how I was raised?”

Republican: Not true science….I really don’t give a fuck

Me: Wow, you’re an absolute idiot.  But thank you for giving me yet another great example of just how sheep-like and brainwashed Republicans are.  It’s conversations like these, where I encounter someone devoid of reality or facts, that make me feel better about my own beliefs.  Enjoy trying to get more government loans to help you go to a government subsidized schools.  Oh and enjoy those public roads and traffic signals paid for by the government.  Oh and that safe food and water that’s required to be so because of government regulations.  But yes, you don’t need the government.  You did it “all on your own.”

Republican: Get a life.

Me: I have a life.  One where I don’t vote for people who screw me over.  But enjoy voting for people who make your life harder.  That’s really smart thinking.  Oh, and by the way, you’re welcome.  My tax dollars helped you pay for your degree

Republican: Welcome to Texas where you never will succeed as a dumbocrat.

Me: That’s funny.  Enjoy living a difficult life encountering endless struggles without health care because, living in Texas, Republicans will continue to deny you access to affordable health insurance.

And it pretty much wrapped up there.

No, there’s not a clever ending to this article.  That back and forth said more than enough.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.

Comments

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  • bdr

    ahh gotta love texas. People here take great pride in supporting a political party that runs over them roughshod.

  • drae

    That’s just sad. I run into these people of course, but I never dig as much as you did – down to where the truth is they are simply going to believe what they are told and do what they are told because they were “raised that way” and think of themselves as hardworking, self-sufficient, loyal and tougher than the rest of us. There’s actually very little thought behind it and maybe that is the saddest bit – they believe so strongly, even rabidly, and there is zero critical reasoning. It’s like hypocritical stupidity and it’s just sad.

  • Lianne Schneider

    I’ve had this conversation so often – and with family – that I can’t begin to count them. And if it were only Texas, I’d say let them secede. Unfortunately this brainwashing is national in scope and southern in particular. Time to get new friends, I’d say, because you’re right – you will never change their minds with facts or logic.

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      So let the South secede. They get more federal tax dollars than they pay into the kitty, which means blue states like mine are subsidizing them.

      The other part to his friend’s argument: HE deserves the government help he denies he got because HE is white. “Lazy” is a code word for “minority.”

    • Lyola M Roeske Shafer

      I am sorry this happens to you. It does happen to me on occasion but only from the “Super Religious” from whom I expect nothing less or more. Mostly there is a preoccupation with staying out of Hell. I can’t beat that. They are still people I love.

  • justice4rall

    Wow. There is nothing like giving the gun and the bullet to the man trying to kill you , your family , and then assisting him to take perfect aim because you’re loyal to the “man”. SMDH

  • erin

    why would you call someone an idiot!?!? especially someone you’re trying to help! bringing a win/lose attitude to these types of arguments are the problem! ERRGGG both sides have valid ideas but if we could just fucking TALK about the issue without anyone getting offended, then maybe we could identify with one another and come up with a logical solution to our fucking problems instead of just wanting our team to win! come to it with a notion of love and acceptance and REALLY wanting to understand the person and maybe you could change their minds!

    • catdaddy

      You’re an idiot, and I’m not trying to be funny.

    • pattyp

      Um, do you seriously think there was any chance that wingnut was going to change his/her mind? It’s pretty obvious s/he just wanted to start an argument with the Allen but got more than s/’he bargained for. Going into a discussion like that with no knowledge and no facts whatsoever is pretty idiotic behavior, and should be called out as such.

    • Lyola M Roeske Shafer

      Our team MUST win. Health care insurance is necessary and people who do not understand this are either ignorant or a (insulting name.)

    • louis

      get your head out of your ass. love and acceptance….bwahahaha, that’s a good one. all we need is love for the people ruining our lives…moron.

    • Richard Bell

      Both sides have valid ideas? I’m still waiting to hear the “valid ideas” from the Repiglickin side, Erin…maybe you could help me out and enumerate a few? I guess so if you consider “die quickly” a valid idea.

  • Kathy

    I need to know more about states that are refusing to take advantage of ObamaCare. I live in Georgia, another dumb state that refused to set up state exchanges. I understood that this will make us use the Federal exchanges. Does that mean higher premiums? My husband and I are paying over $2,000 a month for insurance right now. Please tell me it will be lower in 2014!

  • Michelle Partridge

    That’s the main reason I moved to Canada. Actual universal healthcare and 90% fewer morons.

    • DrDon

      as global warming becomes more and more real, I just might join you.

    • Lyola M Roeske Shafer

      I’m waiting to see if Sen. Cruz is actually an “Illegal alien.” who will be forced back to Canada and have to be part of a health care system less wonderful than his Senate care

      • Cathryn Sykes

        He is a U.S citizen. However, the Constitution does not consider that alone a good enough qualification to be president. You must also be “natural born” which I interpret as being born IN THIS COUNTRY. Think about it, folks….none of the Founding Fathers were born as U.S. citizens. They were born British subjects, the children of parents who were British subjects. They had to deal with the idea that someone from Europe could come to America, become a citizen, and on that basis alone, run for President. With, just maybe, the intent to hand this country over to a foreign power. At least someone “natural born”–born and raised in this country–would tend to think of America as home, would tend to be more loyal to the land and the people. What other interpretation can there be of “natural born”? As opposed to “unnaturally born?” What the hell would that be?

      • raggedcompany

        The Founding Fathers weren’t born as US citizens because the United States didn’t EXIST when they were born. Hence the reason we call them the Founding Fathers of the United States. Also, for what it’s worth, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and George Washington were all born in American colonies.

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Ragged: I would have thought the fact that they weren’t born citizens of the United States because there was, at the time of their birth, no such thing as the United States was OBVIOUS and I didn’t have to state it.. And yes, our first bunch of presidents were al born in America. That’s my POINT! They were among the first US citizens, and ALSO “natural born” U.S. citizens. . As opposed to someone coming from Europe, or from the European colonies surrounding our very small, very weak country, becoming a US citizen with the intent of running for president, but also with the intent of betraying this country to an outside power, a very real danger in those early years. Remember, we were literally surrounded by potential invaders. The British from Canada, the French from the Louisiana colony, the Spanish from Mexico. We couldn’t afford to have what we would no call a “sleeper” president. So…TWO requirements to be president. An American citizen, AND born in this country. Two requirements ….not one.
        Under that interpretation of “natural born”, Cruz would not qualify.

      • Phil Beebe

        No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

        Place of birth has nothing to do with it. The qualifications for “natural born citizen” have changed over time. For instance, John McCain was not a natural born citizen at birth in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone. But, due to a law enacted in 1937, he, as well as any other citizens born there after 1904, was retroactively declared a natural born citizen. There were no natural born citizens when the Constitution was adopted, because, of course, there was no USA before then. But, that was covered by “a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution”,

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Phil: The clause about being a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution was obviously a one-generation qualification. Martin Van Buren was the first president born a U.S. citizen…all before him had been born British subjects. As for the 1937 law, it may indeed allow Cruz to run for president. However, I have been talking about the Founding Fathers intent….and that, obviously, has nothing to do with the 1937 law.

      • raggedcompany

        Your comment didn’t make that seem so obvious. And I believe Phil Beebe’s reply clears things up far better than I ever could.

      • Cathryn Sykes

        My comment doesn’t mention it AT ALL because I, obviously erroneously, thought that everyone on this thread would KNOW that our first few president’s were born British subjects because the US didn’t exist before 1776. Maybe I think people are smarter and more educated than you give them credit for.

    • louis

      ill be joining you soon. I just gotta get my wife on board. I have had it with this country! not too mention i am now a slave to the government via debt of my student loans. Save me a spot by Toronto, see ya in 2015.

      • guest

        Thank you. I will be so happy to pay for your college education. NOT!!! You borrowed the money, now pay it back.

  • Dennis Smith

    A little context? You are saying he messaged you first and it started this conversation. Believe me Alan I agree 100% with everything you are saying to him but by the end you do come off as if you are the one badgering him and desperate to.get him to agree woth you. What was nature of his original message to you that led to this conversation?

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Sorry, but idiots like that NEED to be badgered.

    • Lyola M Roeske Shafer

      Badgering a willful idiot is OK with me.

  • Chandler McGrew

    I don’t understand the comment about exchanges and Perry. LePage up here in Maine (rated the 2nd worst in the nation though we’d argue that he rates top billing) kept us out of the Medicaid expansion and refused to set up a state exchange. But in all those states that do that the Feds are setting up their own exchanges and in October we Mainers will be able to get cheaper health care! You can go to Webmd and there’s a section to put in your state, income, etc. to find out approximately what you’ll be paying for what.

  • newsie34

    Here’s the conversation I had yesterday with a Republican in my home state of Oklahoma regarding Obamacare. I posted an article about a Republican who was turned down for health insurance because of a pre-existing condition and now he “gets it” and supports Obamacare because of what he, personally, experienced.

    Republican: I have had the same issues but because of the high cost of the insurance I can’t afford it for my family but I am being forced to get it.

    Me: You have an issue with your shameful Republican politicians, not Obamacare.

    Republican: I have an issue with both democrats and republicans on this issue.

    Pre-existing I have NO issues, but forcing me to get insurance when it is NOT in my budget is another.

    Me: I guess some people need the government to nudge them a little to be
    responsible American citizens. If having medical insurance that
    protects your family from financial ruin due to medical bills doesn’t
    “fit into your budget” then you can always apply for a waiver…. which is government assistance funded by tax payers.

    But, don’t be surprised if you get the same snarky comments so many
    Conservatives LOVE to use, for example, on people who are on food stamps
    questioning your spending habits regarding cable tv, mobile phones,
    expensive trucks, weapons, etc. Of course, you could always take a bath
    and get a job…

    Republican: We budget for medical expenses, and you are correct I could go get a job and put my children back into a substandard school system, that has already failed one of my children, and pay for childcare for all three
    children. But when we did the Math my whole paycheck would be to cover childcare and school expenses ie uniforms, . Especially when you add in summer cost to cover camps/childcare. The affordable health care is NOT affordable!!!

    That’s when I had to end the conversation. There’s no getting through to them at all. And, I was actually shocked that she didn’t tell me to eat shit and die after the way I talked to her. I am always amazed how Republicans can continue conversations after being told they are in fact free-loaders on the government, ignorant, hypocrites, the opposite of Jesus-like and basically knuckle and heel dragging morons. I guess they have such a strong indoctrination of self-hatred they aren’t off-put by someone else’s criticism.

    They are truly special people with special needs. Bless their hearts, but we shouldn’t have to convince them before we do what we know needs done.

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      So…what does she expect to happen if she or someone else in her family suffers a catastrophic illness or injury?

      And it may not be the school system that is “substandard.” Maybe she has a stupid child.

    • louis

      who is making the school uniforms? Versace. let her home school another knuckle dragging idiot. Ill hire them in the future to cut my grass and trim my hedges. btw, my condolences for living in Oklahoma. I am all for the ACA. right now I owe 25k in unpaid medical bills. I cant buy a home, i cant do shit but contemplate bankruptcy. sure 25k isnt a ton of money, but throw in my 100k student loans and I am sunk!

    • dsr3

      Just had a similar conversation and happily after about 10 minutes, my heartbeat has slowed to normal. I know better than to try to make sense with people who deny reality but somehow I always get sucked back in. And I agree completely with your last paragraph that we should continue to do what we know needs to be done regardless of their ignorance. I need to repeat the Serenity Prayer over and over and march on.

  • Jerry Taggart

    Lord have mercy on me—I just wanna reach out and choke people like this….

  • gemma liar

    I say it all the time,VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!! remember: if U are republican U are either WEALTHY or stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ask thyself: are U WEALTHY?

  • tcaruso01

    We’ve all had this conversation with Murdochian-lobotomized GOPers! Of course, once you blew his argument out of the water, all he had left were insults! I’m torn between despising people like this and feeling empathy for their ignorance!!

  • Lyola M Roeske Shafer

    How could this be ? It certainly explains a lot. I did not realize that even a Republican could be so devoid of true information. I has to be hard to live with so many contradictions.
    I need a Republican to explain this to me…without lies or name calling.

  • Paul Peterson

    That’s very telling. But on the other side, what did you achieve? I’ll bet he walked away thinking he was right and you’re an asshole, and continuing to do exactly as he has, just because that’s what he’s always done.

    • Suzie

      Hey, at least he tried to educate the person, and they continued to avoid any fact that was told to him/her. I know lots of people like this too. I call them, ignorant of the real truth, and basically, I feel sorry for them. I hope they take the time to learn the truth, like I have, and maybe they will get it right before election time returns!

      Thanks for continuing to educate people, Allen. Sometimes we are successful, and sometimes not, but we have got to keep on trying.

      • Paul Peterson

        My point was, Suzie, albeit poorly made, that beating people with a 2×4 over the head doesn’t work. Even if it is the full and honest truth. When they are blasted out of their wits with an argument they’re losing, they just shut down, and do not change their mind, or learn a single thing, as is obviously the case with this person. Gentle persuasion works better, even if it makes your own head want to explode.

  • dsr3

    I swear, just 10 minutes ago I had a similar discussion with my son’s health care aid who makes just a little over minimum wage. When I offered facts and statistics, she said she didn’t believe them because people could make up anything and who knows who these people are. She believes the gut never lies that it is the mind that screws you up. I gave up and said that she will continue to believe what she wants to believe and it was useless to engage in any further discussions. It all started when she said the government was going to shut down, businesses were going to close and the U.S. will be destroyed and much of this is because the Mexicans don’t pay taxes but still receive all the benefits.

    • dingdongs

      So your saying that Illegal Mexicans are getting No benefits from the U.S…. Here’s your sign….

  • openlyblack

    Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

  • Stevie

    Here is a problem in the nutshell Allen Clifton thinks the democrats policies are 100% correct, and this so called republican thinks they are 100% correct.

  • mrky

    Where mah check be is?

  • brownp51

    The thing I find most alarming about this conversation is the fact that the Republican who works in healthcare works for a company that provides him no health insurance ???, has a chronic illness, and just finished a bout in ICU, but thinks it is affordable. This guy is not paying his bills or or he is getting some kind of help. I have this conversation all the time. By asking a few question you quickly see he/she has put no thought into his/her position. I believe that membership in the GOP for many is purely social. It’s like being in the “in group” of middle school.

  • Unfortunately, if you forward such a thread to a Tea Billy – in order to educate them – they won’t be able to “get it”, or accept/absorb it. Part of their cognitive dissonance is to be able to deflect the truth, or facts, as liberal “opinion”, not to be believed. Part of their Faux Spews misinformation “osmosis”.

  • TroyKelsey

    Holy dog shit. And the worst part is that AGAIN, truth is stranger than fiction.

  • Drew

    Gotta love liberals. “Hey look I found a dumb conservative, this is how they all think!” Nonsense. It’s funny how close minded the so-called open minded are to those whom they call close minded.

    • miketothad

      You’re all dumb (and mostly white), and you’re too dumb to realize it.

  • ExRadioGuy15

    Wow….that GOPer suffers from severe cases of fear, ignorance and cognitive dissonance…yikes…calling that person an “idiot” is actually a compliment. “Complete and utter moron” is more fitting….

  • Mal McLean

    As a fellow Texan (7th generation even), I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had similar kinds of conversations with other Republicans in this state. One Republican friend in particular avoids talking Politics with me because she doesn’t follow Politics and I keep ‘confusing her with facts’. At moments it’s bewildering to me.

    I have hopes that Texas is becoming more purplish soon, especially with candidates like Wendy Davis and the Castro brothers, but the hardest part is for some overcoming the core indoctrination of the party that is rather like that of religion. They have faith even though it doesn’t necessarily make logical sense.

  • miketothad

    Brilliant.
    Thank you.