A Shocking Truth Anti-Vaccine Nuts Don’t Want You To Know

Image via Refutations To Anti-Vaccine Memes

Image via Refutations To Anti-Vaccine Memes

We’ve been over this before, many, many times. Vaccines are safe, and they’re not some evil plot by some secret, sinister group to reduce the world’s population. They aren’t the cause of autism. So why in the hell would people turn their backs on years of research and not immunize their children? The reason is that we’re a couple of generations removed from the days when polio was common and people still died from smallpox. These days, we’re also bombarded with pseudo-medicine from has-been celebrities like Jenny McCarthy and thousands of quack doctors like Dr. Mehmet Oz trying to sell you various “miracle” supplements and weight loss products. These snake oil salesmen have also even gone so far as to try to convince people through their various blogs and other publications that measles and other diseases aren’t serious and that “natural immunity” is the way to go. From I Fucking Love Science:

It is also evident that many people believe that measles is not serious enough to warrant vaccination. It may therefore surprise some people to find out that, according to the CDC, 30% of cases develop one or more complications including pneumonia, ear infections or diarrhea. Around 1 in every 1,000 will develop an inflammation of the brain known as encephalitis which can lead to convulsions and may leave the child deaf or mentally retarded. Furthermore, 1 or 2 of every 1,000 children who contract measles will die. (Source)

Not just content to tell people that immunizations are unnecessary, some individuals like Dr. Russell Blaylock from the “Vaccine Information Network” also push the false claim that vaccines actually cause brain damage or autism, and people actually believe it. But here’s how the MMR (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) vaccine works according to the CDC:

The MMR vaccine is a live, attenuated (weakened), combination vaccine that protects against the measles, mumps, and rubella viruses. It was first licensed in the combined form in 1971 and contains the safest and most effective forms of each vaccine.

It is made by taking the measles virus from the throat of an infected person and adapting it to grow in chick embryo cells in a laboratory. As the virus becomes better able to grow in the chick embryo cells, it becomes less able to grow in a child’s skin or lungs. When this vaccine virus is given to a child it replicates only a little before it is eliminated from the body. This replication causes the body to develop an immunity that, in 95% of children, lasts for a lifetime.

A second dose of the vaccine is recommended to protect those 5% who did not develop immunity in the first dose and to give “booster” effect to those who did develop an immune response. (Source)

Measles actually spreads very easily, and it only takes one infected individual to create an outbreak as a study by the CDC confirmed. These outbreaks occur even with individuals who have been vaccinated, so it is imperative that as many people as possible are vaccinated because statistically, the odds of spreading disease is lessened even if someone fails to build an immunity from the shot. Then why would anyone with a medical license suggest that children go without a lifesaving immunization? It’s simple – there’s a lot of money to be made in the anti-vaccine movement, which resembles a cult in many ways.

So how come people like Dr. Oz, Dr. Blaylock or others can keep their medical licenses? Doesn’t this information violate the Hippocratic Oath? Vox.com explains:

The AMA—the steward of the medical profession of which most American doctors are a member—has ethics guidelines that do address some of the problems with Oz’s work. “There are ethical opinions the AMA puts out that say that a physician is always going to be truthful and not going to mislead patients,” an AMA spokesperson says.

For example, the AMA Code of Medical Ethics states, “It is unethical to engage in or to aid and abet in treatment which has no scientific basis and is dangerous, is calculated to deceive the patient by giving false hope, or which may cause the patient to delay in seeking proper care.” But this provision falls under the category of “nonscientific practitioners” (i.e., naturopaths) and would not apply to actual MDs like Oz.

What’s more, the AMA cannot enforce any of its rules. That’s up to the states, which license and regulate doctors. “The AMA is a voluntary membership organization,” says the spokesperson. “We are not vested with any authority at the state or federal level.” (Source)

And once again, this is not an issue confined to the far right or the Alex Jones crowd. While they may believe vaccines are some sort of crazy government plot, the anti-vaccine movement is a very real problem on the left. We now have an outbreak of measles and the rate of unvaccinated kids is at a 20 year high. Coincidence? Of course not. As The Daily Show pointed out, these aren’t crackpot conspiracy nuts living out in the woods, they’re urban and liberal.

I truly believe that the only way to convince these people of the error of their ways isn’t by repeatedly bashing them over the head with science, but by showing them that they and their children are being used to fatten the bank accounts of those who sell pseudo-medicine. As a friend of mine once said, some people will pay more for the sideshow to prove they haven’t been taken in by the circus. The anti-vaccine movement is full of well-meaning, but gullible individuals who have been swindled by opportunists who care only about money, and not the children they hurt. Sadly, it may take a long hospital stay (or worse) before they wake up to the fact that they’re being used.


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  • Michael Siever

    And yet, the autism rate is still going up, in spite of their efforts. Let’s see, vaccination rates are down, measles and pertussis are making a comeback, *and* autism is becoming more prevalent, not less prevalent, like they said it would become. Hmmm. I’m not a doctor, but I think it’s time we started vaccinating our children again…

    • Lee Loving

      No known SCIENCE BASED evidence linking autism to vaccines. So basically, like the right wing nut jobs you are choosing what you want to believe and refusing to look at the evidence in front of you. That is called Cognitive Dissonance. So while you think you are protecting your child from autism (which is a prenatal condition BTW linked to the age of the father among other things, which are not vaccines) your setting your child to suffer from possible encephalitis or meningitis, both of which can cause brain damage and/or death.

      • exmotogo

        pssst — I don’t think you read his whole comment… maybe go back and take a look before you accuse people of being right wing nut jobs — that’s a pretty serious accusation 😉

      • Dissenter13a

        The same attitude pervades. If it is not proven conclusively, it can’t possibly be true. And of course, we can rely on flawed data.

    • Eg Kbbs

      Not only that, but the original “research” linking vaccines with autism was 1) thoroughly discredited a few years ago and 2) blamed compounds in the vaccines of the time which are no longer in vaccines. So even if I believe that early, sloppy research, the cause was removed, therefore effect removed, but folks are still getting autism.

    • ConfusedinBixby

      I think it’s time to study these fertility drugs to see what their effect is on autism rates.

  • felipe63

    “……..quack doctors like Dr. Mehmet Oz…..”
    Um……..isn’t Dr. Oz a big proponent of vaccinations?

    • CatShaw54

      Yep. I’m no fan of Oz but why accuse him of this when he’s obviously not guilty. Alas, this total fabrication will only strip credibility from this article.

      • Jack Knauf

        Nowhere in the article does it state he’s an anti-vaxxer. He does, however, promote weight-loss “miracle” products on his shows that are absolute scams. The author is lumping all these scam artists together to give a broad example

      • Dissenter13a

        Manny excels at that. He is as intellectually dishonest in that regard as Erick Erickson.

      • Dissenter13a

        A lot of what Oz has to say is sound. Problem is, he has to go far afield to come up with new material, and he isn’t always as discerning as he needs to be.

      • Eg Kbbs

        Which as he has a TV show and publishes for the population, makes him very very dangerous as it takes a good scientist a lot of effort to try to sort out the wheat from the chaff. And for the regular-joe it is near impossible to sort out what they should tell their friends as “fact.”

      • Dissenter13a

        Oz turned me on to Dr. Cordain’s Paleo diet, which is remarkably effective. I lost 40 pounds in a little more than a year (the healthy way!) without ever trying. I eat ice cream, cookies, brownies, lasagna, chimis, and don’t have to work at it.

        But yes, I do cringe at times. 🙂

      • Shane Woodman

        You mean in it for the money rather than for altruistic reasons? Sounds about right…

  • Robert Rockey

    Sadly these kind of nuts are beyond hope as it has been proven that any attempt to convince them they are wrong only entrenches them in their pseudoscience. The only thing that will change their minds is an real, deadly, outbreak that affects them personally….

    • Dissenter13a

      I’m happy to debate the science, as I know that the government’s stats are FUBAR, and cannot be relied on. Vaccines are known to cause auto-immune disorders, and if you get one of those, it is often worse than anything you will get from the disease itself.

      • surfjac

        Let’s see the proof!
        How many cases over what period of time?
        Was it a specific vaccine or all of them?

      • Dissenter13a

        Let’s do the math.

        Whereas GBS is rare, it is common when compared to Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuritis (CIDP). According to the GBS/CIDP Foundation, between 500-1100 Americans contract CIDP (as CIDP is forever, about 25,000 suffer from it in total) annually. Thus by definition, if we split the difference, about 800 Americans contract CIDP every year

        Now, let us assume that we can say to an absolute certainty that flu vaccines cause 10% of all CIDP cases in a given year. That works out to 80 cases. Now, let’s say that 10% of them–probably an optimistic number– are reported to VAERS, and in half of those cases, a second potential trigger occurred. You’re down to four cases a year. And if you insist that every flu season is a new one, you will never obtain a figure that will qualify as statistically significant, even though you know (we assumed it to be true for sake of argument) that the flu vaccine does, in fact, cause CIDP.

        Two studies suggest a link between the two, but that is owing to the fact that, in some years, neurologists (who diagnose it) made a concerted effort to report suspected incidents to VAERS. In most years, they don’t bother.

      • bexy11

        Which studies? Cite them. Thanks!

      • Dissenter13a

        I don’t know most of the cases off the top of my head, but I would refer you to Glassberg v. HHS (his first name is Brett, to make googling easier) as a start. In that case, both the government’s and plaintiff’s experts agreed that vaccines can cause CIDP, and iirc, two studies were cited and accepted by the Special Master (it was an onset case).

      • BioWonk

        Whenever they have absolutely no evidence from a scientific study from a credible source, the anti-science tribes attempt to use legislative and legal decisions.

        We’ve all seen just how honestly politicians and lawyers present evidence

      • Dissenter13a

        Again, it is not what the Court found, but what experts for both sides ADMITTED UNDER OATH, UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY! What part of that do you not understand? If what you say is true, they both committed perjury.

      • Shane Woodman

        Hey, ummmm, case studies…cite them please. Law suits are not scientific case studies. Can you understand those simple words? Or is that too much troll bait for me to be throwing at you today?

      • Dissenter13a

        What happened in the lawsuit is what is important. Both the government and plaintiff experts, testifying under oath, admitted causation. If what you claim is true, didn’t they commit perjury?

      • BioWonk

        My wife is a neurologist specializing in Multiple Sclerosis. Please tell us *exactly* which vaccines “cause” auto-immune disorders and the *exact* mechanism by which they do it.

        I’m sure that the info would be invaluable to her since none of her medical journals are reporting this.

      • Dissenter13a

        The mechanism? Your neurologist wife would know that vaccines trigger an immune response, which has the potential to go wrong. Roughly 75% of cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome are preceded by an identifiable “trigger” (we are finding new ones all the time) of the immune system (the most common being severe gastroenteritis caused by the Campylobacter jejuni bacillus, typically appearing within 2-3 weeks of the incident in up to 40% of cases). Other potential “triggers” are still being investigated, but anything that puts serious stress upon the immune system (e.g., pregnancy, mononucleosis, HIV, and influenza) seems to serve as a trigger.

        Again, one of the problems with proving a causal link to vaccines is that the data is so compromised, but in many cases, a vaccine is the only possible source of a trigger. Sherlock Holmes’s aphorism and Occam’s Razor both apply.

        If you have read Vaccine Court cases, you would know the studies used to prove the link. As for the exact mechanism, GBS and its more virulent cousin CIDP are “orphan” diseases, which means that no one really studies them. There is a lot we in the world of medicine that we do not know to the level of certainty you demand; you sound a lot like the old cancer-‘hos for Big Tobacco and today’s global warming deniers. The evidence will never be good enough, because you need it not to be.

      • BioWonk

        You are claiming that vaccines trigger an auto-immune disorder in people who have compromised immune systems.

        Auto-immune disorders are a hyperactive response while compromised immune systems are weakened responses. Your explanation of the “mechanism” contradicts itself.

        Court cases are not “evidence” and I notice how you still wholly fail to provide *any* source for your claims whatsoever. You just claim I will never be satisfied with anything you present as an excuse for having nothing to present.

        As well, Your ad hominem of trying to tie me to anti-science of climate change denial and the mercenary PhDs of he Marshal Institute only serve to further illustrate how you have to lie to make your point.

      • lucyricardanon

        “Auto-immune disorders are a hyperactive response while compromised immune systems are weakened responses.”

        The immune system isn’t one thing though. Trust me, you can have an AI condition and have an otherwise compromised immune system simultaneously. That’s not why he’s an idiot. He’s an idiot for claiming that either 1)vaccines are more likely to trigger AI diseases than VPDs or 2) an AI disease triggered by a vax is somehow worse than the same AI disease triggered by the VPD. I can’t even tell which one he’s getting at, but they’re both wrongity wrong wrong wrong.

      • Dissenter13a

        If the VPD causes it, it does. If the vaccine causes it, IT does. Whereas you have no control over whether you get a VPD naturally, you shoot the vaccine into your arm.

        Your argument is senseless.

      • lucyricardanon

        Yes, you do have control over whether or not you get a VPD – you get the vaccine, which again, is less likely to cause a reaction than the disease.

      • Dissenter13a

        So, where’s your scientific proof? Again, the problem with VAERS data is that even the FDA admits that the data is useless. Besides, your argument is ludicrous on its face.

        Think about it: If the vaccine triggers the auto-immune disorder by the same mechanism as the disease, you can’t credibly argue that it is less likely to cause the reaction.

        Do the math. If the odds of getting a VPD is 10%, the vaccine would have to be ten times as safe to reach break-even. On what scientific basis do you say this, if we cannot rely on the VAERS data?

        I’m not anti-vaxx; I merely suggest that you exercise caution. In some cases (e.g., the flu), the risk is not worth the reward.

      • lucyricardanon

        “If the vaccine triggers the auto-immune disorder by the same mechanism
        as the disease, you can’t credibly argue that it is less likely to cause
        the reaction.”

        The viruses in vaccines are weakened or dead. That’s why you get, for example, the FLU from wild flu virus, but only mild transient flu-like symptoms, if that, from the vaccine. Is that really that difficult for you to understand?

      • Dissenter13a

        Irrelevant on its face. For a vaccine to work, it has to trigger the immune system. And that is what is at issue here.

      • lucyricardanon

        Yes, but to a different degree. That’s the part you’re not getting – it’s the same mechanism but to a different degree. The immune system is not binary. There is no on/off switch. Your immune system is ALWAYS active (if it’s not, you’re in big trouble) and different stimuli will activate different parts to different degrees. A flu vaccine activates the same PARTS as the full-strength wild flu, but to a different DEGREE.

      • Dissenter13a

        But you can’t quantify the difference because the VAERS data is essentially worthless.

        I’m not anti-vax but rather, anti-over-vaccination. We know that vaccines can cause some pretty dreadful disorders–as the Glassberg case shows, the experts all admit this. What we don’t know is what the actual risk is.

        Polio? Absolutely. Gardasil? Not a chance. Flu? We should be dispensing closer to 14M doses than 140M. If you get the flu, you take a Z-pack, and you’re done with it.

        Mumps? Measles? Back in the day, they were rites of passage. We all survived. Pregnant women ought to get vaccinated, including those who are planning on it. Others? Not so much.

      • Kathy Hoover

        We all survived? MMR vaccine is why! Boomers ALL got these shots and yes we survived thanks to them and others, including the polio “sugar cube”. “Rite of passage” for the parents of boomers, look up the death rate in the 30’s and 40’s due to MMR, polio, smallpox, etc. Then explain again how “WE” all survived. I survived because my parents suffered through many “childhood” diseases and wanted to spare their children the experience! Those that died due to lack of availability of MMR, ect. vaccines never got the chance to have kids. I have one child, and I refused to risk loosing her altogether to a preventable disease. Has anyone ever thought to look into ENVIRONMENTAL pollution as an indicator of autism? Vaccines don’t cause autism, but our polluted air, water and soil could very well be contributing! Oh, and FLU, just like measles, CAN lead to complications like pneumonia that can lead to death. So the smart move is to get vaccinated. Period. My parents understood that because they were LUCKY enough to survive those “childhood” diseases, and wanted to make sure us kids did!

      • Dissenter13a

        This is a simple risk versus reward equation. Sure, the flu can cause death, especially in the elderly. Therefore, it makes sense to vaccinate those who are at sufficiently elevated risk, but probably not as many as we do. And while the vaccine can cause polio.,the odds are such that you are far better off rolling up your sleeves.

        What I advocate is that we try to get a better handle on the risks, and adequately compensate those unfortunates who ‘take one for the herd’. If you know anyone with CIDP (as I do) caused by a flu vaccine (no other trigger, so doctors conclude that by default), you know that the price of drawing the short straw is forbidding. You don’t know what hell is like until you do. But you don’t seem to give a rodent’s biblical transport, as long as YOU are not the one who drew the short straw.

        It is suspected that Alzheimer’s is related to DDT exposure and violence, to lead in our gasoline. About all we can say about autism is that, as the “American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and the Institute of Medicine all agree that there’s probably no relationship between autism and vaccines.” http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/vaccines-autism Probability is not certainty, and to the rational parent, “probably” is a word that translates into worry.

        The “smart move’ is to get SOME vaccinations, as some are less hazardous and more beneficial than others. For most, Gardisil and Fluzone are both a bridge too far, and anything with thimerosal (which is 50% mercury, and can’t be all good) in it should be avoided (it is banned in children’s vaccines).

        I’m old enough to have had the Big Three, and a few others. I survived. Sure, it was a pain to have a puffy neck, but I assure you that it was nothing when compared to the life-altering illnesses which vaccinations can and do cause. Life is about risk, and managing it.

      • Karen Simons

        I was reading this interesting discussion and wanted to let you know that a Zpack will not cure flu….flu is a viral infection, Zithromax (z-pack) is an antibiotic used to treat bacterial infections. Your advice is frighteningly inaccurate.

      • Dissenter13a

        Tamiflu. My mistake.

        My point is that, for 99% of the population, the flu is a minor annoyance, treated easily and effectively after the fact. Why vaccinate?

      • Sarah Oltrogge Colby

        The Flu? A Z-pac? You DO realize that a zpac is an antibiotic and that the flu is a virus, right?

      • Dissenter13a

        Which necessarily means they are dangerous. Your admission.

        What evidence do YOU have that they are safe?

      • John Baker

        We’re still waiting for your evidence that they aren’t.

      • Dissenter13a

        Asked and answered. Read the case, and look at the studies cited therein. Both the government’s and the plaintiff’s experts admitted that there was sufficient evidence to conclude that vaccines cause CIDP. But if you only have a total population of 800 cases/year, and you demand a standard of evidence that would border on the statistically impossible, you can never meet the standard you demand.

        You sound like the 1970s TobaccoWhores and global warming deniers.

      • ConfusedinBixby

        the number of people who haven’t died of polio, measles, mumps, rubella, small pox, whooping cough, tetanus, etc. That all the evidence I need. Bet you anything YOU WERE VACCINATED and look, you’re still alive to show your ignorance.

      • Dissenter13a

        I had mumps, measles, and whooping cough as a child. No big deal.

        Like I said, global warming deniers. You are just like the Rightards. I’m not against vaccination per se, but think we should be more selective, as the number of adverse effects reported are understated by at least a factor of ten, and some of them are catastrophic.

        If we changed places, you’d be singing a different tune. Polio is not really worse than an adverse vax reaction can be.

      • Cemetery Girl

        You oppose HPV, flu, measles, mumps, whooping cough, and polio vaccine, so which do you feel are possibly worth getting? I’m not sure if someone that has suffered a complication from measles, mumps, polio would agree that it is no big deal.

      • Dissenter13a

        Me: “I’m not against vaccination per se, but think we should be more selective

        I wish that you rabid pro-vaxxers would do me the simple courtesy of actually reading what I wrote. I oppose the flu vaccine for all but the highest-risk of patients because it appears to trigger some of the worst reactions (see the Vaccine Court files on PACER), and the benefit is minimal (it can be a little as 20% effective, and a Z-pack will cure it in most cases). Ditto, the HPV vaccine, as the cancer in question is slow-developing and easily treated. Polio? In that case, the reward is well worth the risk, but I would prefer using a dead strain of the virus. The MMR shot is a closer call (the odds of dying from MMR are low), but I’d come down in favor of vaccination. Tetanus? Same thing.

        I am NOT advocating that we avoid vaccinations altogether. What I am saying is that we be mindful of the true risk, and that we re-work our vaccine compensation system to where if you do draw the short straw, you are fairly compensated.

      • Dissenter13a

        Science starts with this axiom: Your conclusions are only as good as your data. If the head of the FDA admits in JAMA that the number of adverse effects reported to VAERS is understated by a factor of 100, that calls into question all of the conclusions based on it.

        You are the equivalent of the global warming deniers, refusing to accept that one inconvenient truth.

      • lucyricardanon

        You seem pretty confused. Yes, pathogens may be the underlying cause of most cases of GBS, which seems to be what you’re saying. And if, as you say, anything that puts stress on the immune system is likely to cause GBS, then a VPD is just as likely to be a trigger as a vaccine. Or more so, because vaccines are usually weakened versions of the pathogen. And the same goes for HSP. There’s evidence that in a few cases flu vax may trigger HSP, and that actually makes quite a bit of sense, as one of the things most likely to precipitate HSP is the flu, or other acute URI.

        What you’re saying makes no sense – an AI condition caused by a vaccine is no worse than the same AI condition caused by the same vaccine-preventable disease. And as you yourself note, most cases of GBS are *not* triggered by vaccines, but by illness induced by wild-type pathogens. If your immune system is prone to that particular type of nonsense, it’s likely to happen sooner or later, whether it’s from a vaccine, a wild-type pathogen, or some other trigger.

      • Dissenter13a

        Again, with the exception of pregnancy, you have no control over whether you get a vaccine-preventable condition that triggers GBS You have a 100% chance of putting the trigger in your body if you take a vaccine.

        About 40% of GBS are caused by a specific bacterium. Don’t eat chicken, and you will never be at risk.

        If you don’t take the vaccine, you don’t take the risk.

        The facile argument that “it will happen eventually” is transparent outcome-based reasoning. You pro-vaxers sound like global warming deniers. On what MEDICAL or SCIENTIFIC basis do you make that claim?

      • Shane Woodman

        So, ummmm….how do you know the government’s stats can’t be relied on? Is that something an imaginary friend told you one night, or did you actually engage in research following a valid methodology with peer review thrown in just to make sure you actually knew what you were talking about?

        Back to the kool aid for you I think…wait…maybe you’ve been drinking too much of it already? 😉

      • Dissenter13a

        The FDA head admitted that no one bothers to submit incidents to VAERS. I could call a neurologist to testify if it mattered–no one makes VAERS reports because neurologists like to get paid. What part of this do you not understand?

        A study is only as good as the data, and the data is so hopelessly compromised as to be useless.

    • BioWonk

      Just as sadly, that’s not always the case. During the smallpox outbreak at the turn of the 20th century, NYPD had to accompany public health medics into the tenement areas and assist with forcing vaccinations on people who were literally watching their neighbors and family members suffer and die right in front of them. The same had to be done in Boston and Philadelphia.

      And just like today, that fear of the vaccination being worse than the disease was propagated and maintained by sociopaths snakeoil salesmen no different from Joseph Mercola, Mike Adams, Mehemet Oz, Sherri Tenpenny and Suzzane Humphries. They don’t care who they harm as long as they can turn a profit selling themselves and their products.

      • Dissenter13a

        In some cases, the vaccination can be worse than the disease. If I were God, I would afflict you for a month, so that you could see just how much fun it is.

      • BioWonk

        Wishing divine wrath on someone who civilly challenges your claims.What a wonderful human being you have proven yourself to be.

      • Robert Rockey

        Really, don’t bother keeping up the argument. Refusing to back up his arguments with credible sources, dismissing any sources against his argument as unreliable ,and from his other posts its easy to see he has the mentality of “I know what I know, don’t confuse me with the facts!”

      • Dissenter13a

        Pull your head out for a moment. In Glassberg, EVEN THE GOVERNMENT’S EXPERT admitted causation. Why would he lie under oath???

        The FDA admits that their numbers are FUBAR. If you care at all about science, you would be concerned at that. But you are like global warming deniers, raising the bar beyond the realm of reasonable.

        You have no standing to complain about the Rightards.

      • Dissenter13a

        You keep claiming without good evidence that vaccines are safe. I have real-life experience to the contrary.

        Experience would change your mind.

      • peregrine829

        Sigh…the fallacy of the “first hand experience”. YOU, personally, and maybe another person you know, had a bad reaction to a vaccine. Therefore, logically, vaccines cause bad reactions in all people.

      • Dissenter13a

        One of the arguments advanced by your side is “have you ever seen a child that.” What is fair for the goose is fair for the gander.

      • Robert Rockey

        And as I said arguing would be pointless. Your still trying to use court cases as proof. You need to go look up the basics of the scientific principle and what “Correlation does not imply causation” means. I’m done here.

      • Dissenter13a

        Yes, Governor Palin. ShEEEEEEEsh!

        The case contains citations to the studies, which two experts acknowledge as constituting evidence of causation. Correlation alone would not constitute causation, but correlation plus mechanism does.

        Like I said, global warming deniers.

      • Debi Biderman

        Don’t believe in divine wratj. I believe in the science of Vaccinated Choldren.

      • John Baker

        Making claims you can’t back up is a way of life for you anti-vaxxers, isn’t it?

      • Dissenter13a

        You’re the ones claiming that vaccines are safe. Prove it.

        Even the Government’s expert in Glassberg admitted causation. Why would he lie under oath?

      • Brian

        Burden of proof is on you. You’re going against all known medical science in favour of the word of a former playboy model and discredited physicians.

      • Dissenter13a

        You’re using discredited data and demand a standard of proof which is unreasonable on its face, but that is par for the course for you global warming deniers.

        You have no standing to criticize the Rightards.

      • Debi Biderman

        Hey I proved it I vaccinated my kid No problem.

      • Dissenter13a

        If there is a just God, your child will end up like Brett Glassberg.

  • Dissenter13a

    Manny: “We’ve been over this before, many, many times. Vaccines are safe”

    Manny may mean well, but he is Sarah Palin-class ignorant here.

    It is an axiom of science that your conclusions are only as good as your data, and compliance with the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System can only be described as abysmal. As former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Commissioner David Kessler confessed in the Journal of the American Medical Association, adverse reaction reports the FDA actually receives “probably represent only a fraction” of the actual number encountered by providers. David Kessler, Introducing MEDWatch, 293(21) JAMA 2765, 2765, available at [Manny will have to approve the original post with cites] goes on to cite one study claiming that only “1% of serious [adverse] events” are ever reported, id., and it is easy to see why. The paperwork is onerous; doctors don’t get paid for reporting incidents, and they are in the business to get paid. Besides, as a general rule, they all know that no one bothers.

    Government statistics are the functional equivalent of a dirty test tube.

    I’m not anti-vax per se but rather, urge people to vaccinate with caution, and presume that the risks are far higher than the government lets on, and that if you draw the short straw, you will be screwed. If you have ever tried to get fair compensation in Vaccine Court–and yes to that moron out there, there is such a thing; it is a program of the federal Court of Claims[cite]–know how difficult it is. As Dr. Marcel Kinsbourne observed in testimony before Congress,

    The Department of Justice [“DOJ”] attorneys make full use of the apparently limitless resources available to them, in order to defeat petitions [for relief in Vaccine Court]. They increasingly often substitute one expert for another if the opinion rendered by the first is unfavorable or seems not to impress the Court (or one theory for another), or recruit multiple experts for a single case, as against Petitioner’s usually single expert. Multiple Entitlement Hearings result. The DOJ has retained and paid a group of professional investigators to perform a scientific study for litigation purposes, to reopen and defeat claims (Hanlon v. Sec HHS, Plavin v. Sec HHS) for which entitlement had previously been found. This was a considerable expense that Petitioner’s attorneys could not remotely emulate under present rules. If the Court’s decision in a particular case is unwelcome to the Justice Department attorney, he or she increasingly often reopens issues at the Damages Hearing that automatically follows, that are similar in nature to the arguments that failed at the stage of Entitlement. As a result, Damages Hearings threaten to become as burdensome to Petitioners as Entitlement Hearings. If after all this the outcome remains unfavorable to Respondent, the DOJ attorneys increasingly often resort to the multistage appeals process. The process is adversarial at every step.

    Compensating Vaccine Injuries: Are Reforms Needed?: Hearing Before the H. Subcom. on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources, Committee on Government Reform, 105th Cong. ___ (1999) (statement of Dr. Marcel Kinsbourne), reprinted at [cite]

    Manny might have the absurd blind faith in Big Brother emblematic of many Progressives, but a lifetime of experience has taught me to assume that the government is lying to you until proven otherwise. Polio? Yes. Flu? No. Measles? Maybe. I know that the government doesn’t want you to know how dangerous it really is. Manny, why should I fall on my sword for the benefit of the herd?

    I would VOLUNTEER to vax if I knew that dogmatic pro-vaxers like Manny would be the ones to draw the short straw.

  • Matthew Reece

    Penn and Teller had an awesome episode on this subject. The highlight can be seen here: https://www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

  • jim_dandy_is_a_big_sundae

    Just because Jenny McCarthy is on the left does not mean the majority of anti-vaccine folks are from the left. In fact, the anti-vaccine movement is pretty evenly spread across all parties. Some aspects of stupidity are not political. They’re just stupid. Why inject politics into a place where there is none?

    • GrFace

      This is more than somewhat true but the defining thing about anti-vaxers seems to be that it suckers in people who feel like they have “special access” to secret information about the perils of vaccines thanks to this thing called “The Internet” (which is of course also where they learned that ChimpyBushMcHitlerBurten organized 911 with the Joooooooooos and that 0bama is a Kenya-born Muslim and uses code works like “Levant” to show that he’s in with his “homeys”) will likewise believe that vaccines made their child autistic. And yeah, that five colors of chalk crazy is everywhere…

  • Monkeyfling

    CDC Whistleblower Dr. William Thompson. Look it up and then reevaluate your article.