A Simple Explanation For Those Who Don’t Seem to Get Why Religion Should Stay Out of Government

religion-governmentHi, I’m Allen.  I’m a liberal and I’m also a Christian — you know, something many conservative “Christians” believe isn’t possible.  To many of these people, liberals are basically the anti-Christ.  I guess it’s because we actually believe in equal rights, helping the poor, giving access to health care for every American, and that we should accept people who are different — not judge them.

Beliefs straight out of the bowels of hell, I tell ya.

But this is the thing about religion — nobody is right and nobody is wrong.  That’s why it’s called faith.  Especially in a country where freedom of religion is one of the cornerstones on which this nation was founded.

I am free to be a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist — or nothing.  Isn’t that awesome?  Hell, I could identify with a different religion every single day of the week if I really wanted to.  Nobody can stop me.

I can be a liberal Christian and someone else can be a conservative Christian.  And we can drastically disagree on damn near everything.  Hell, we do.

So as a Christian, I disagree with my conservative counterparts about homosexuality and a host of other issues.

That’s about it.  We disagree, and that’s why laws have no business being based on religion.  As far as human rights go, it shouldn’t be a debate.  Every human should be given the same rights — period.  That’s not a religious belief, that’s common sense.

But some people interpret their religion as not allowing for that.  Religious beliefs that tens of millions of people disagree with.

Again, it’s a good thing we have a separation of church and state in this country (or at least we’re supposed to).

Here’s a great rule I think we should live by:

If there’s a God (as Christians believe there is) who will judge us for our “sins” in life, let’s just go ahead and let God handle that once we’ve passed on.  Until then, practice your religion privately (or in places meant for religious practice) and let’s let public life be handled based on general human rights — not any specific religious set of beliefs.  Because even within the same faith people can’t agree, so how can one faith set rules for everyone?  Especially in a country based on religious freedom.

Seems simple, right?  I think so.

Because as far as “faith” goes, nobody is really right and nobody is really wrong.  Well, at least not in a country with religious freedom like we have here in the United States.  We might all disagree with one another, but that doesn’t “prove” someone’s religion (or interpretation of their religion) is right or wrong.  It just means we have a difference of opinion about our own personal religious beliefs, or lack thereof.

That’s what makes the First Amendment so wonderful.  We’re given the right to privately believe whatever we want to believe without fear of prosecution.

Keyword being privately.  

Or am I wrong?  Has every Christian — and American — agreed on one singular religion?  If so, then by all means let’s set rules based on those principles.

Too bad that will never happen.

So, since it won’t happen — let’s just go ahead and leave religion out of government.  You know, the whole “freedom of (or from) religion,” just like our First Amendment promises.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.


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  • Suzanne Lehman

    Allen, then please ask the government to keep itself out of my religion. Don’t force me to participate in murder. That seems like a simple request.

    • proud2beDem

      And in what way is the government forcing you to participate in murder , your statement has me confused .

      • Ulrich

        Well one way is that your tax dollars are buying bullets which are killing children in foreign countries. Does that count as murder I believe it does.

      • SmarterThanGlennBeck

        The government doesn’t give you a choice about paying your taxes. “Taxes” apply to everyone, religious and non-religious. And according to Jesus Christ your Savior, the money doesn’t even belong to you but rather to the government so you’re essentially returning their money back to them. Once their money is in their hands they can do whatever they have deemed appropriate with it. That essentially means you’re not a participant in the use of those funds. Without the government there is no money! So Suzanne’s statement is simply invalid. As it defies the very tenants that define the Christian religion. She hasn’t murdered anyone nor has she been a participant in a murder.

        If you people are going to profess a belief in a religion then you should actually spend some time learning what you’re agreeing to believe in.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        my pet TEGU is smarter than Glenn beck
        — Suzanne is a typical white trash regressive republican scum bitching as her “flock” does

      • SmarterThanGlennBeck

        True on both counts!

      • Debbie Lass

        love your response and your name lol

      • Suzanne Lehman

        Nice rationalization. If the money for the HHS mandate (the ACA) were to pass through the government’s hands before being handed over to insurance companies to pay for abortifacient drugs and abortions then I might more easily accept it. If only we had gone with the single-payer system…but, we didn’t.

        If I understand your rationalization, Buddists could protest that their tax dollars are going to purchase dead cows (or, heck meat in general) because the money goes to food stamps but they don’t because it’s taxes and the responsibility falls on the spender of the funds rather than the provider of the funds. Is that the idea?

        I’ll think about it.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Agree with you about single payer. As far as medications paid for by insurance… I think that lame case was moot before it was spoon fed you by ALEC.

        I also think that a soulless corporation can NOT have a religious right or sentiment. The OWNERS can personally have as many or few gods as they want, but to inflict their personal gods upon their employees…. is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

        What you are complaining about would FORCE the employers religious preferences upon EVERY employee, denying them all the First Amendment protections because it would be a GOVERNMENT LAW doing it.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Religious organizations are TAX EXEMPT, no matter how much political activity they engage in. Wanna cut the debt, TAX the CHURCH as if it were a business.

      • Sherri G

        But provide tax exemption for churches with total asset value under $1 Million because those are your local churches who help on a daily basis. Anything over that should be a percentage and NO assets should be exempt about $5 million except the original $1 Million.

      • Stephen Barlow

        The Supreme Court would disallow it. ONLY allow 100% religious worship and strictly defined community beneficial churches tax exemption. Defined as churches who ONLY take funds from members and their parent church organizations.

        if GM wants to join the ‘Church of All Corruption” as a single member… Then they can NOT join any other Church, lest they deny their own expressed faith.

        I see what you see, but also see how religion will be come full of PACS and SuperPACS if we don’t limit worship to a single REGISTERED Tax Exempt faith.

        Or, the Donor could pay the churches tax FOR THEM… and NOT claim a deduction in the business return.

        CAn you see in a decade, Corporations as ‘Church Members” because of the McClellan & Citizens United decisions?

        Then, since your BOSS is going to be able to DICTATE your healthcare choices and options, they can DICTATE your worship/employment options under the SAME foul logic.

      • Debbie Lass

        so basically America should never do war even if it is to help persecuted people or defend America?

      • Stephen Barlow

        America should only engage in war when others bring it to us. Any aggression without being under attack is DEAD WRONG! no matter how pretty an moral and patriotic your excuses sound.

        The Dixie Chicks weren’t just RIGHT, they SHAMED ALL THOSE who stabbed them in the back.

      • Debbie Lass

        First of all Stephen, simmer down cupcake. Get off the defensive train ….because you are speaking to someone who thinks more like you than you think….I was replying to Ulrich and something he said…youre taking what I wrote and trying o twist it to mean something based on your desire to argue and fight here…..I asked a question of a person FOUR months ago…..so before you jump on me with assumptions assuming that I have justifications or excuses for something…which nothing I typed offered any of that…maybe you should slow down and actually understand what youre reading before jumping off the deep end and thinking im some conservative war monger, which im not even close to…..

      • Stephen Barlow

        Sorry you took it personally. i feel just as strongly with the Nixon supporters left in the nursing home as i do with the Young Republican Storm Trooping Skinheads who wish McCain were President.

      • Stephen Barlow

        But buying bullets that kill adults is somehow OK?

        How about this: If you don’t have to pay a single tax penny for an abortion or contraception,

        I don’t have to spend a single tax penny subsidizing the tax exemption of any church, any act of spying, terrorism, or military aggression, the purchase of any military weapon I don’t approve of or the subsidy to any industry INCLUDING subsidizing retail, fast food and all other non-living wage company (via food stamps and Medicaid for their underpaid employees).

        Fair enough?

      • Suzanne Lehman

        OOOOH!!! Can I stop subsidizing low-wage retail, fast food, maintenance, and service companies by removing my tax donation to food stamps and Medicaid, too?!

        I’d only do that if the wage actually went up, of course, but it’s a nice dream Mr. Barlow…

      • Stephen Barlow

        It would happen automatically IF the minimum wage were changed to a Living Wage Requirement. it CAN be a reality if the Republicans end their racist hatred of all things Obama.

        But you really DON’T understand that do you? You just do and say as your Master/Husband tells you to do and say because you are biblically commanded to.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Please reply to the WHOLE POST directed to YOU.

      • nsdjhw

        Ahaha so you wanna get read of food stamps too, how very christian of you ahahah

      • Suzanne Lehman

        I think you missed the part about wanting the minimum wage to go up in order to reduce the need for food stamps and Medicaid. I would want companies to pay a living wage. Allowing a low minimum wage simply allows places like WalMart to expect the government to pick up the tab and make up the difference between what they are willing to pay a person for their work and what that person requires to survive – like food and healthcare. Yes, it would be wonderful to drastically reduce the need for government programs such as food stamps by ensuring that being employed full time means that a person has sufficient income to purchase all the food they need.

      • Stephen Barlow

        People like YOU have to stop voting for people who want MORE poverty for all, MORE injustice and MORE class separation. You VOTE you part, and good people will replace Republicans.

      • Suzanne Lehman

        Mr. Barlow, I believe we’ve been through this before. Good people do not defend others’ “right” to kill babies. When weighing evils, I find social injustice easier to address locally than murder. I know we disagree on this. When I find a single politician who believes that every life has value – the homeless vet caught in a cycle of addiction, the (perhaps wrongfully) convicted felon on death row, the severely disabled, the elderly and the unborn – and also that all persons deserve the opportunity gain the pride that comes with earning a living wage, then I assure you that I will vote for that person. Corporate CEOs are not elected. If they were, I would vote most of them out.

      • Stephen Barlow

        But to become a baby, you must be BORN THE FIRST TIME!!! Parasitic cell group called zygotes, embryos and fetuses are NOT PEOPLE My born again friend.

        There is only you belief in a mass hallucination for you to fall back on.

        I am TELLING YOU the law and the science behind
        and infront of (which makes it the actual) REALITY.

        Good for you. So, from what you have told me, you haven’t voted in your entire life…

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        read MY reply to her,,,,,,,,,,,, a bit over the top but delightfully incendiary

      • Suzanne Lehman

        why is it delightful to be incendiary?

      • Stephen Barlow

        You don’t think being incendiary is hot? Oh you cold, cold bitch! ~wink~

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        fire is bthe ultimate cleanser,,,,,,
        and I noticed that U didn’t reply to the “rev” who quoted a ton of scripture destroying your idiotic insipid ‘argument’
        ………………..mustve slipped ur mind; eh?

    • FD Brian

      did you sit on a jury that condemned someone to death? Did you serve in the military and were forced to kill civilians? Did you perform an abortion on someone with a gun to your head? Get a clue lady.

      • Stephen Barlow

        BET she APPLAUDED the murder of doctors and the bombing of clinics that were upholding the law!

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        probably PRAYED for it

    • moe/larry & curly keys

      then don’t get a pregnancy which U don’t want————NO ONE IN GOVERNMENT makes U get an abortion; but the white trash regressive CHRISTIAN scum demand that women cannot GET an abortion,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, JESUS never said anything abortion or gays,,,,,, but the shriveled American CHRISTIANS — mostly white trash crybabies– claim JEEEESUS wants what THEY want. I have yet to see GOVERNMENT try 2 enter religion–but we have a thousand cases of scum CHRISTIANS wanting to enter GOVERNMENT– funny: njo muslims,,,no jews,,,no Taoists,,,, no Buddhists,,,just crybaby white trash pseudo christians

      • Suzanne Lehman

        shriveled? white trash? crybabies? does name calling make you feel better than others? I thought progressives disapproved of bullying…

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        I disapprove of obvious stupidity. — when U make the oligophrenial statement U made I enjoy becoming a prick. I do quite notice U did not DARE comment upon my accurate observation that scumbag rightwing trash are trying ( always TRYING) to administer THEIR myopic version of THEIR VOODOO religious atavistic beliefs into GOVERNMENT. Not muslims; not Taoists ET AL; just scumbag white trash pseudo CHRISTIANS. I will ( again) lay a scenario upon THEE– and see if U can stick to topic in its answer: IF U have a 13 yr old daughter who gets raped and impregnated by a low IQ freshly escaped physically deformed black man would U have that fetus aborted? Or would U let it be born to your family? this answer is simple: Y or N…………………….. you may ( in addition; not substitution) extrapolate a 22 yr old grown woman having that befall her also–

      • Stephen Barlow

        She’d douche the bleach up that little girls cooze in her own basement rather than pay for another black kid’s food and education!!!

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        gonna haf2 to agree with ya there SB!!

      • Suzanne Lehman

        I do have a 13 year old daughter. I also have the love and support of an extensive faith community. We would weep for lost innocence and the evils of this world even as we rejoice in God’s ability to bring forth good out of evil. Yes, I would welcome that child of my child because I believe that God’s ways are not ours.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        I suspect that answer is easy as it didn’t happen,,,,,, and why do all of U regressives decry the death of an UNBORN fetus yet LOVE to bicth about elderly and under 13 yr olds eating off of FOOD STAMPS? seems U prefer to complain UNTIL the child is born- then U want nothing 2 do with it until its 18 and U can send it to a war ( SEE: IRAQ) which regressive rightwing trash cannot/willnot pay for and is based upon lies. Im tired of religious white trash pseudo-“christians” wanting THAT superstitious voodoo religion mandating our government……….southern aging non sexual white trash scum—

      • FD Brian

        so your 13 year old daughter being raped is an act of God? So then he shouldn’t go to jail for doing the work of the Lord.

      • Suzanne Lehman

        It is tragic that this thought would even enter your mind but doubly so because you entertain it long enough to actually post it. Rape is evil. Evil does not come from God. However, God is able to use an evil act to create new life! To kill the child for the sins of its father would likewise be evil and solve nothing. To break the chain of evil that led to such an horrific act would be an opportunity to participate in the good work of the Lord. So bless the child because that child may some day do God’s work in keeping some other man from becoming a rapist – as a counselor, a teacher, a philanthropist, a coach, a food pantry worker, a constable, or even simply as a friend.
        God’s peace be with you…

      • FD Brian

        For starters, God is too interested in touchdowns and 3 pointers to even know what is going on in the reproductive parts of humans.

      • Rev. Tom

        Why would it be tragic to enter someone’s mind?

        Your Bible entertains a similar thought.

        Deuteronomy 22:28-29“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.”

        Exodus 22:16-17“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins.”

        It appears that if it were rape you would have a new son-in-law. If it was seduction and the person could afford to pay her father off you could have a way out of having a son-in-law. Then again if she were seduced, she was being promiscuous and she needs to be stoned to death.

        I know some so called Christians claim that they follow the “New Testament” and not the “Old Testament” and therefore the “Old” no longer applies however Matthew 5:17-20 would make such claims invalid.

        17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        “there U go again”……… annoying blockheads with FACTS!!
        ( bravo,,,,,,BRAVO!!)

      • really?

        Not everyone believes in your god so your religion can not dictate the law for everyone

      • Melania Gulley

        Lady . you are truly demented. You have no idea what a rape does to a persons mind , heart and soul and you would make your child endure that torment to make yourself feel better.. Talk about sick

      • Stephen Barlow

        Amen person AMEN!

      • Abs

        Funny how the gods people believe in always seem to hate the same people that they do.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        they follow- its easier than thinking

    • Stephen Barlow

      As soon as you feed clothe house and educate ALL the children you force into the world AGAINST a Mother’s will. Until each one turns 18. Sounds like the MOST CHRISTLIKE request.

      • Suzanne Lehman

        Would that I could, Mr. Barlow. We do what we can by donating food, clothing, toys, baby supplies, and medical care to various crisis pregnancy centers, homeless shelters, and food pantries in our local area as do all the members of our church who are able.

        If I paid fewer taxes, I could do even more.

        And I know SOOO many families who would welcome those babies into their homes – if only their mothers would let them be born.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        yeah———– just what we need: more kids in the country with TOO many people. How about only QUALIFIED moms having kids? not the southern white trash– or trash of any ethnicity– pumping out babies who have nearly NO CHANCE at happiness as they are born into a “home” which has no money,,,,no hope- we need to keep RELIGION out of schooling and politics. religion? keep it those stupid buildings of temples /chapels/ mosques/ churches,,,and tax all of them as they are simply a BUSINESS

      • Stephen Barlow

        I appreciate the sentiment of donating used clothes and being proud you are so “GOOD a Christian.”

        Do you agree with Romney and the RED party about “the 47%”?

        Did you think cutting foodstamps was a solution to the Debt?

        Do you think tax payers should be forced to pay for home schooling?

        Have you ever actually talked to a homeless person?

      • Suzanne Lehman

        I’m not sure if you’re just trolling or if you really wish to start a dialog but I will respond with thought and respect in the event you are sincere.

        First – you are making an assumption about “used” clothing. We purchase new items that families and new mothers need. I am not “proud” of this. I do what I think I can but I’m pretty sure my Lord thinks I could do more. This, in fact, shames me but He is merciful.

        About the RED party: I’m not entirely sure what the full implication of “agree with Romney and the RED party about ‘the 47%'” means. CBS News did a fact check about whether 47% of Americans pay no income tax and found the number to be 46.4%. So, yes, I agree that nearly half of Americans pay no income tax. I don’t agree at all that those same people necessarily vote Democrat or that they have an entitlement mentality. I’m not really sure how much more of an answer you were hoping for.

        I think cutting food stamps is stupid. If you aren’t working to solve the underlying problems causing people to need/qualify for food stamps then you’re just making the problem worse. Our church has been asked repeatedly by our local food pantry this year to respond with emergency supplies because there are so many hungry folks in our neighborhood. It is our national SHAME.

        I don’t think I’ve followed the politics of forcing taxpayers to pay for home schooling. No one in my living room understands where this question comes from. Is this about school vouchers? I think that home schoolers pay school taxes for schools to which they do not choose to send their children. I also think that childless members of our society pay school taxes to educate our nation’s children despite having no children of their own. It is our nation’s responsibility to pay for the creation of an educated populace. I think school vouchers are dangerous because they have the potential to give the government control over the educational content of previously independent schooling systems such as religious schools and even homeschooling.

        About homeless persons: I don’t usually classify people that way so it took me a while to remember those I’ve helped who happened to be homeless. Yes, I’ve spoken to many homeless people. Many were students at a very special college I worked for. As an example, when the college closed down their computer science program on their city campus and moved it to the suburban campus, I worked with one of our homeless students (living in a shelter at the time) to get him transferred to the suburban campus, get him a job with the computer science department at that campus, and get him a public transportation pass to be able to get back and forth from campus to the shelter. We spoke often until I left that position. He should be graduating this coming May. He is also a recovering addict trying to rebuild his life after losing pretty much everything to his illness. Does this somehow validate me as a human being in your eyes?

        In a previous post to which you asked me to respond, you were discussing “soulless corporations” and whether they would trample others’ rights. If you really care to hear another person’s point of view, you could peruse the “Feminists for Life” and “Women Speak for Themselves” websites. They’re pretty much spot-on with my beliefs.

        I understand that mighty tegu will likely wish to rant about this post also so I will not be responding further as I’m tired of hiding the profanities as my children walk by. Have a blessed evening.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        all we ask is U regressive republicans do some HOMEWORK on EXACTLY what the tea party ( NEE: john birch society part 2) is attempting. Find out how the repubs are lying– obamas spending/deficit? shrinking DRAMATICALLY yet FOX “news” NEVER mentions this. SHUTDOWN govt to decry a LAW? screw the nation out of BILLIONBS in THAT GOVT shutdown ? Demand ( in some repub states) women get invasive ULTRA sounds when asking for abortion? Repubs voted AGAINST equal pay for women,,,voted AGAINST the bill making violence against women a federal offense nationally? want to quell food stamps for elderly and kids ??? want to KEEP tax CUTS for uber wealthy and mega corporations? yet want to keep spending money on our bloated military? vote against equality in marriage for gays? ( they are good tax paying americans!!) we simply need this nationally: (A) legalize and TAX ( regulate) marijuana…cocaine,,,,, prostitution and gambling ( keep money here in America) (B) TAX churches/temples/ mosques.–they are BUSINESSES (C) do a simple 2 cent tax on ALL internet transactions –each way: 2 cents the consumer pays,,,2 cents the seller pays. (d) make congress and all people who WORK for ANY and ALL government agencies ( president/ congress/ mayors/ governors/ police/ ALL civic employees) take periodic drug tests. If they fail– immediate firing and loss of all work related benefits ( except social security which they have paid into) (E) keep religion OUT OF government and OUT OF schools— if parents want kids to learn “religion” teach it at home or the church/temple they go to….,NO RELIGION IN SCHOOL. (F) backround checks on anything which involves public usage; such as auto/boat/ plane licensing ( already in place) and GUN REGISTRATION– if someone is a criminal( felon) U cannot own a gun. if one is in your possession U go to jail minimum 10 years. and FINALLY— make America more into SOLAR & WIND and NATURAL GAS ( which America is the number 1 country already),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,PLEASE NOTE NO ” profanities” ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, even though they are simply WORDS!!!!

      • Stephen Barlow

        I volunteer @ the Salvation Army once a week. most of theor donation are unwearable and non functional. I apologize for the assumption. It IS a wonderful investment that you make.

        “CBS News did a fact check about whether 47% of Americans pay no income tax and found the number to be 46.4%.”

        First of all, CBS no longer holds credibility.
        Second, the part they DID NOT report is that the 47% are made up of:
        All children under18
        All students over 18
        All those who are disabled
        All those who are retired and live under the poverty level
        All those who have a bread winner in their life and stay at home, but file singly.
        All those unemployed, who actually DO have to pay taxes unless their benefits are above the poverty line for the year.

        now… About those who pay HALF as much as they SHOULD because of Dressage horse style loopholes. (As if Ann Romney can’t afford $80K to feed her little hobby ponies!!!) did you know that ANYONE can ‘loan’ their art to a gallery, and deduct 10% of the purchase price (for security and maintenance, even though the Gallery provides BOTH) annually for as long as the art is on loan. But less than .1% of all filers have a ‘collection’ to lend.

        You are one of the few Republicans who understand that this, ending LT Unemployment and the Shutdown Stunt are VERY negative for everybody. I am actually surprised. You speak as if you come from a very cloistered niche of the GOP, which is why I misunderstood you.

        I stand corrected. Very few who have ever been homeless EVER are so casual about it.

        Have a great holiday.

        BTW, tegu is not a thinker. He reacts and if challenged with an unfamiliar truth… becomes profane as it is the only defense he has for what little he can muster up to call ‘character’.

      • AbdAbs

        Get off of the internet & take care of your children. If you don’t want your children to see profanities, then you might want to consider only looking at G rated web pages, while ignoring your kids.
        I love it when people act so proud of everything they do to help the losers of the country, then, because the bible tells them they shouldn’t be proud, they call their pride something else. Pride is pride no matter what other name you try to give it. Its so ironic to me that so many xtians are so proud to be so much more humble than anyone else they know!

      • Sherri G

        Since when does taxpayers PAY for homeschooling? I’m a SECULAR (NONRELIGIOUS) Homeschooler of a middle schooler in E WA, have many friends around the world that secular homeschool and we don’t get a SINGLE DIME FROM THE GIVERNMENT for supplies, curriculum, and expenses. Could you provide me facts regarding your statement?

      • Stephen Barlow

        In several States, home schooling expenses are deductible 100% without limit. Trips to DC for civics lessons…

        What VOUCHERS do is TAX the public school student by STEALING the taxes for PUBLIC SCHOOLS and gifting it to home schoolers. The issue here is racial, cultural and mostly economic segregation. A banker’s wife doesn’t have three minimum wage jobs without benefits to be at, so she has the time for getting ‘vouchered’ at tax payer expense.

        Working single moms would NEVER get to home school their kids. Particularly in States like Oklahoma where FEDERALly legal abortions are crimes and FORCED CHILDBIRTH and MANDATORY PREGNANCIES would keep them from a fair chance to advance in society.

        I applaud your circumstances and you devotion to your children. I DOP hope you allow them to have more than your knowledge and opinion as source material. I suspect you are one of the 5% who do.

      • Sherri G

        You are a confused individual…..NO state provides 100% homeschool refund on expenses. Some give tax credits like they do for teacher expenses but most homeschoolers don’t use them because they don’t want government oversight. Vouchers are simply a way for alternative (like charter PUBLIC schools or VIRTUAL PUBLIC schools) to receive the funding for each child ENROLLED. Why should my local school get the tax money for my child when they are enrolled in another PUBLIC FUNDED school program?
        My older 3 (now 18, 18 (not twins) and 20) attended an alternative full self-paced high school…..TWO graduated a year early! The funds for all three kids moved with them to that alternative school…..same thing with the vouchers…NONE of the STATE COLLECTED or FEDERALLY PROVIDED PUBLIC SCHOOL MONEY goes to HOMESCHOOLERS.
        I’m a single mom and I homeschool with NO VOUCHER, GOVERNMENT allowance or TAX CREDIT. NONE of the states do that. I run several nationwide FB groups for families that homeschool or use alternative public school programs where Schooling-at-Home is the focus. NONE of them receive any help outside of the mandated PER STUDENT ENROLLED monies that go directly to the school.
        I am PRO-CHOICE so can’t argue with those points. 270+ bills and laws which restrict women’s rights by far-right idiots elected into office…..

      • Stephen Barlow

        The voucher money for Paul Ryan’s grand kids will come out of the Madison ghetto school budget. HIS Federal Budget for the last 4 years has said exactly that. And vouchers have NEVER been stand alone funded. Vouchers have ALWAYS been about robbing the poor so the rich can get special treatment.

        Al the way back to General Bush I.

      • Sherri G

        Again, the money follows the child so if the child leaves a ghetto school for somewhere else, the money isn’t gonna stay there but stay with the child. Its NOT about stealing from the poor HOWEVER, I believe the school funding should be evenly distributed with additional federal monies based on enrollment….would MAYBE help the poorer schools obtain better resources.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Allocate the $ per student. Which was how America has been successfully educating it’s children UNTIL Gen Bush I.

      • Sherri G

        Apparently I’m not making my statement clear enough….EACH CHILD is allocated a flat rate/year for public education. That SPECIFIC MONEY follows the child to whatever PUBLIC FUNDED school he/she attends. Homeschoolers DO NOT receive any school funding. Online/Virtual/Charter schools are all PUBLIC FUNDED or monies PER STUDENT enrolled MAY (but not always) be provided via a voucher to STATE APPROVED PRIVATE CHARTER SCHOOLS.

      • Stephen Barlow

        I get it, you don’t get CASH. But in some places you get TAX DEDUCTIONS AND CREDITS.

        Do you STILL have to pay for the education of all the children you don’t want polluting YOUR special ones with socialization or actually fresh ideas?

        Or do you get tax exemptions because you are opting out of the system?

      • Sherri G

        Only at the STATE level is their small tax credits for homeschoolers and only a FEW offer them. Allotted per student money goes nowhere except where the student attends unless private (no public monies) or charter (voucher program or simply choices in and money follows). I believe I have stated CLEARLY that I get no monies from the government to homeschool, no tax breaks and no tax credits…..that means NONO, I DONT GET ANYTHING AND NO, NOT TAX EXEMPT….

        First of all, 4 of my kids went through the public school system and the reason I’ve homeschooled my now 15 year old daughter the last 3 years is because the schools which I pay taxes to FAILED TO PROVIDE LEGALLY REQUIRED FEDERALLY MANDATED SPECIAL EDUCATION SERVICES FOR HER. She is High Functioning Autistic with learning disabilities and a host of other medical issues. She was TWO YEARS behind in math and language arts and is now caught up to the 8th grade level (held back one year while homeschooling to RETEACH what the SCHOOLS failed to do……).
        I am a SECULAR (AS IN NONRELIGIOUS) Homeschooler. We learn about the world without rosy colored glasses (unlike subjects line the U.S. history is taught in school), we work on subjects having real world applications in the 21st century, we study world religions, cultures and art along with sciences and math. She is taking American Sign Language for her foreign language.
        Many many many homeschoolers today are secular and are teaching their kids at home because of bullying weapons and guns; abuse by the staffstaff; disabilities that are ignored by the school; gifted kids who are bored out of their mind because they’re ignored by the school; teaching to the test rather than individualized learning; and too much noncreativity.
        My daughter may have disabilities but she doesn’t let that stop her. She plans on focusing on the fine arts, educationeducation and social services. She has goals to be an Art Education Teacher for the Deaf and eventually open her own art studio specifically for the Deaf, nonverbal, and disabled to help express themselves.

      • Stephen Barlow

        So the answer is NO.

      • Sherri G

        No, I don’t get any money, credits or exemptions…..Yes I still pay school taxes….My daughter is more socially accepting and has a diverse group of friends of multiple ages, volunteers in the community and participates in sports, both as a player and a Jr Coach. She doesn’t need a brick building to gain social skills. The socialization you are talking about–(2) 15 min recesses and lunch where they are with only same age kids and have talk quietly, deal with social pressures, clicks, being an outcast because she’s not “normal”, worrying about being accepted even though she doesn’t wear the cool clothes or have the cool shoes, and bullying–is worthless and teaches kids how to hurt others andmakes others feel low about themselves when they are good kids. No thanks.

      • Stephen Barlow

        In other words, you are raising the kind of monster kid who decent parents stare @ in the food court in the mall.

        I am GLAD you are keeping her on the ‘reservation’.

        If you have that much contempt for society anyway, why even bother with social discourse? Why bother voting? Why bother working or shopping in the American economy with all those ‘normal’ people?

        I hope to all that’s holy that I NEVER get to ‘SPECIAL’ like you.

      • Sherri G

        WOW, what part of WORLDVIEW learning, SECULAR, SOCIALLY DIVERSE do you NOT understand? Why do you have such IGNORANCE of homeschooling and then HATRED for what you don’t know? My daughter is more “SOCIALIZED” than the kids in public school because she explores the world during the day and doesn’t sit in a classroom with ONLY kids her age. She is exposed to ALL ages, all kinds of personalities, ages, and is ACCEPTING of all she meets, unlike those in public school who judge you for your looks, personality, hairstyle, and clothes and labeled an outcast if too slow, too smart, too loud, too quiet, etc etcetc. How is that better? What’s with the “keep her on the reservation”? She is out of the house at various classes, events, field trips, etc 3-4 DAYS A WEEK and being exposed to more of the world than any classroom can provide.

        ALL 5 of my kids (including the ONE who is homeschooled) are well-mannered and polite. Why would you think that homeschooling=monsters? Have you watched the behavior of public schooled kids on the playground or in the mall? Rude beyond belief!!

        You CLEARLY were NOT provided enough SOCIALIZATION in public school and are a prime example of my point! To attack someone for their choice in educating their child for NO REASON since you don’t know me or my family is ridiculous and uncivilized. You made statements which I corrected so now you are going to attack my educational choice for my daughter with ignorant and hateful statements? To what purpose? Does it make you feel better about yourself to tear someone else down?

        I have NO CONTEMPT for society but with the school FAILING to educate my daughter because they FAILED to provide federally mandated special education services, WHY would I rely on them to also provide my daughter with SOCIALIZATION (BTW one socializes their DOG, and teaches their kids SOCIAL SKILLS)?

      • Sherri G

        None of my 5 kids are “monsters” as they were taught respect, kindness and manners. You do realize the MAJORITY of brats and rude/disrespectful kids come from the public school system, right?
        What the hell is this “reservation” you mention? As stated above, I’m part of an evolving homeschool community—->SECULAR (as in NONreligious), teach a WORLDVIEW and encourage our child’s interests while still teaching core subjects. Im a VETERAN, college educated, and successfully raised my kids to be contributing members of society and respect ALL beliefs and cultures. We appreciate that each family should be able to choose an educational option that best works for the individual child, whether that is public school, charter school, virtual school, or home schooling. My daughter is a SOCIAL BUTTERFLY, is socially mature and has a diverse group of friends. She attends classes with a diverse group of kids 2-3 days/week, volunteers in the community, and participates in sports and the fine arts. She is in NO way isolated or have a narrow group of friends. Why would I want a school who FAILED to educate my daughter be responsible for teaching her SOCIAL SKILLS (one “socializes” a dog but teaches “social skills” to a child)????

        Why are you now attacking my LEGITIMATE choice to school my daughter at home? Does it make you feel more like a man to degrade and attack someone based on your IGNORANCE? Are you mad because I corrected you about how school funding works and you don’t like women who know more than you of any particular subject? Why the hatred? Apparently the “SOCIALIZATION” you received in public school taught you to be judgmental, a bully and obnoxious to those who don’t feel or think the same way.

      • Sherri G

        Why do think I’m “special” and why are you bashing me? What have I done to you?
        “If you have that much contempt for society anyway, why even bother with social discourse? Why bother voting? Why bother working or shopping in the American economy with all those ‘normal’ people?”
        Where did I EVER say I ha e CONTEMPT for society. What the hell are you talking about? I correct you about HOW school funding happens, bring up homeschooling my daughter because the school failed her and correct your perception of what school “socialization” is really about and somehow that makes me a bad person, American, or human?? WTF?

      • Stephen Barlow

        That’s simple #’s, not any kind of statistic. If only 1% of American kids are exempted from public education by their radically extremist evangelical or otherwise abnormal parents, then they SHOULD be out#ed by “public school monsters” 99-1.

        No surprise that a retarded kid has no social compass and is readily open to meeting new people. Read “Flowers For Algernon” of watch the movie “Charley”. The fact that she is in “Special Ed” with a ‘diverse group of 2-3′ explains WHY the public schools don’t have a program for her. There are not enough kids to FORM a class.

        Sorry for your tragedy, and I am glad you love her so unconditionally, but expecting special treatment from Government for keeping a birth defect alive is NOT the taxpayers’ responsibility.

        One Question: “Did prenatal testing warn you to terminate this pregnancy for risk of massive birth defects?”

        It’s pro lifers like you who proliferate Republicans. I mean who else would vote for GWB twice? And before you can say, “People didn’t vote for Bush, the computers swapped the poll results in Ohio, and erased the record as they were programmed to do.

      • Sherri G

        What the HELL are you talking about? I’m NOT RELIGIOUS, DEFINITELY NOT REPUBLICAN AND DIDNT VOTE FOR BUSH. Sooooooo according to YOU, anyone who homeschoolers is a religious fanatic who should be part of society and having a disability = being a MONSTER? WTFH? IM AN INDEPENDENT DEMOCRAT WHO LEANS TOWARDS BUDDHISM, PRO-CHOICE on WOMENS ISSUES and PRO-EDUCATIONAL CHOICE.
        I said my daughter has classes 2-3 DAYS/WEEK as a HOMESCHOOLER with a diverse group of kids as in kids from all walks of life, normal or otherwise. She is NOT MENTALLY RETARDED nor SEVERELY DISABLED. she was NEVER in a special education or resource room = always mainstreamed.
        She is actually very smart. She is a SOCIAL BUTTERFLY but has trouble understanding the social rules, especially the unspoken or nonverbal. Her brain is just wired different and apparently not only did the public school fail you on socialization but your MAMA didn’t teach you anything about accepting people for who they are! She is NOT a MONSTER and I am not a FREAK for homeschooling her. My daughter was not something I had to sacrifice for….she is loving, cares about others and artistically creative. LEAVE ME ALONE and stop bashing my family. I’ve done nothing to you and you just continue to attack……READ ALL MY COMMENTS AND YOU WILL REALIZE YOU ARE ATTACKING ME FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

      • Stephen Barlow

        Autistic? As if that’s not a birth defect.

      • Sherri G

        That is NOT A BIRTH DEFECT….AUTISM presents itself in the first 5 years of life with developmental delays (which she didn’t show until school-age). Its a NEUROLOGIVAL DISORDER and still doesn’t make her “special”, a ” brat”, a “monster” or any of the other labels you used. YOU ARE AN IGNORANT ASSHOLE who needs to go BACK TO SCHOOL for YEARS of NEW SOCIALIZATION so YOU can become a REAL PARTICIPANT in the DIVERSE WORLD known as SOCIETY.

      • Abs

        I’ve heard so many people say the same thing. If it were true, there would be no children in permanent state custody. Of course as soon as I remind them of all of those children needing homes, I always hear “oh, I would take them in a heartbeat if I could.” The part they forget to add is “but I can’t, so I won’t. I don’t want children, I want fetuses that can’t cost me any time or money. The ones who were born with things like Downs Syndrome, & unwanted? They’ll just have to pull themselves up by their booty straps & work if they need frivolous things like formula, or milk.”

    • Rev. Tom

      Suzanne you should actually try reading the Bible before spouting your ignorance. Among other places you may read Matthew 22:15-22;

      15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

      18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

      21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

      Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

      22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

      So apparently by paying taxes and government requirements with respect to money you are following the teachings of Jesus and not violating them no matter what the government requires or does with the money.
      Your complaint against government requirements is in effect a complaint against the teachings set forth by your supposed religious beliefs. Jesus made a distinction between the secular and the sacred and directed that this is what he expected others to do also.
      I understand that many self proclaimed Christians put their own (or their church’s) interpretation and twist on what is written in the (multiple various versions of the) Bible but if it needs to be interpreted and twisted then by preponderance of evidence it is not in itself something that is accurate as it is written and may be able to be interpreted and twisted to be used to justify whatever fits someone’s own agenda.
      So the question would be is your belief in the teachings of the Bible actual and something that you follow completely or something you use and manipulate the meaning of to justify your own agenda?
      If your claimed beliefs and faith is honest and well founded, your argument here is invalid.

    • Kat Rogers

      How are you being forced to participate in murder? Remember, if you’re trying to put it into law, you have to back it up using legally accepted methods.

  • Lala

    Thank you finally some common sense!

  • khallacy

    Now if we could just get the fanatics to listen.

  • djmikeyb

    makes absolute sense to me.

    I’m a gay christian liberal who studies all religions but identifies with Christianity because Jesus himself lived in such a kind, generous, forgiving, and inclusive manner. Jesus was a liberal, he hung out with and was kind to ALL types of people, and he taught them NOT to judge each other!!!

    I do not know for the life of me…who can look at the gospel…and then turn around and be judgmental and discriminatory of others. It just blows my mind.

    Thank you for representing the the spirit of christian liberalism.

    • Brooke

      I am also a gay liberal christain. I don’t get it either. Love is the most said word in the bible. Being judgmental is not loving. My religion says to be Christ like. He was a generous man, that told you to love each other.

    • Eddie Krebbs

      Do I know people who don’t get this – I assume a rhetorical question ?

      Agree from the angle that the USA is multicultural and has people of all religions. Might disagree with them, but their beliefs are their right. For that matter, although the Church had periods where it practiced conversion at the point of a sword, in the time of Jesus and for several hundred years afterwards, Christianity was the minority and it was Christians on the receiving end of persecution and death. The Jesus depicted in the Gospels in no way represented persecuting others.

      In the early days of the settling of North America which was mainly from Europe, the arguments had turned to who was the true Christian denomination and many left for the USA to avoid persecution (although they did all sorts of ills against the non-Christian native Americans).

      Now we have gone full circle where some proclaim we are a “Christian Nation” so we can persecute others with impunity.

    • Stephen Barlow

      JEZZZZZZZ!!!! Did you buy the DELUX kit and caboodle on that one!

      The Gospels are the most published plagiarism ever sworn to as the ‘truth’ in the entire history of the world. Not ONE biblical author can ACTUALLY QUOTE Jesus as a witness, reporter or even as a gossip. Each one a further perpetuation of second, third or fourth hand speculations about conversations there is NO actual archalogical, historic EVIDENCE ever took place.

      Even the Sermon on the Mount. Where else isa corroborating documentation of a gathering of 5000 people on a sunny afternoon? Do you think for a second that Pontius Pilate, the egotistical despot would not have called his centurions to commit slaughter if he knew of such a gathering?

      5000 would be about 5% of the entire regions population. Think on that.

      I love the principles, but you find them in predicate religions of the Hindu and Buddha. Native Americans lived these principles as entire nations 5-10 millenia before the alleged allegory of the Christ was hallucinated into existence.

      I am NOT ridiculing your beliefs,particularly because I share them. Just the absurdity that attributing common sense to ONE PARTICULAR quasi historical icon validates, legitimizes or increases their worth.

    • Charles Vincent

      People confuse the old testament covenants with the covenant that Jesus brought to the gentiles.

    • Tony

      You say you are a gay Christian. The Bible teaches we are not to judge those who are not of the household of faith, but judge, reprove and correct those who name the name of Jesus. Saying that you practice and idnetify yourself with what the Bible clearly says is immorality is inconsistent with being a Christian. The Bible tells us to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus, maybe you have believed and that is one half, now turn from your sin and be saved. I promise, if you turn and trust, God will give you the power to die to your appetites and truly live for Him. How can we who are free from sin live any longer in them.

  • Erin Weldon

    Mr. Clifton nailed it once again. Too bad that the people who need to read this won’t.

  • Edward Krebbs

    Well, if someone is allowed to stand up and become the national example of religion, I guess everyone should be cheering the Westboro Bapt crowd when they protest at military funerals ?

  • Dewey

    Let’s remember the purpose of the separation of church and state was to protect religeon from the government due to the persacussion of religeous freedoms in England at the time, not to protect the government from religeon.

    • moe/larry & curly keys

      and today we certainly NEED OUR America protected from ALL religious intrusions: and as “CHRISTIANITY” is whats causing more potential problems as the pseudo Christians attempt to put THEIR sh*tbag teachings into OUR government( NOT the teaching of JESUS CHRIST) we need to continue to be vigilant against scum who CLAIM to know what “GOD” wants,,,which is simply what these aging redneck white trash wants

    • Stephen Barlow

      Read Jefferson, Adams, Washington and Madison if you REALLY wanna know who the 1st Amendment was penned to protect and from what.

  • Gavin

    It’s really a pity as when you pass from this life to the next, your liberal options will suddenly narrow to heaven or hell. You on earth only have the time to choose your destiny on where you will go. Removing all signs of God/Jesus from government , schools etc will not remove His existence whether you decide to remove Him from your life or not. However it sets you on a path for choosing Evil/helll, in your next life. Whilst God is Love He is also a judge and if you decide to write Him out of your life and out of existence then the consequences are by your own hand, not by His loving actions of sending all that He dearly loved to you to save you. Reject Him now from everything, then accept everything given you in the next life as you will get what you truly wanted, a life without Jesus.

    A sad and terrifying place to be…

    I hope you will reconsider as your consequences are far too great to contemplate.

    Repent of your actions, seek Jesus and find eternal life before you take many with you.


    • cary0

      What did Gavin say?

    • SmarterThanGlennBeck

      A life/death without your perverted version of Jesus would certainly be preferable to one with. Seek knowledge and use the brain God gave you. Learning doesn’t stop just because you found Jesus. You’re not done learning unless you’re dead. Are you dead Gavin? If not then open your mind and learn all there is to learn before you die because God detests a fool!


      1. Gavin is absolutely right!
      2. There is No such things as “Gay Christian”.
      As there is no agreement between Heaven and Hell, Jesus Christ and the Devil and no such place of mixture of Heaven and Hell, there is no such gender mixture of man and woman, unless a person tries to make himself or herself artificially being under influence of the demon from Hell. But God made Adam and Eve as husband and wife, Not Adam and Steve.
      3. Disciples of Christ were called Christian in Antioch, read the book of Acts 11:26. Those of you who really want to know what qualifies a person to be a Disciple of Jesus Christ, read Luke 14:26, 27, 33; John 8:31; 13:35; 15:8.

      • secondlook

        At the most it’s a sin. You sin too. Get over yourselves.

      • Stephen Barlow

        LMAO!! Go get ’em!

      • Stephen Barlow

        Maybe not “Adam and Steve”, but your church teaches it was jesus and matthew and John and his own brother james, and Judas and Timothy and Simon and PETER, that rock of a Peter!!!!

        but NEVER Jesus and Mary!!!!

        Christ was a FAG dude!

    • secondlook

      Interesting. I never took away from this piece that this guy wanting to remove God from everything. This is what the problem is in this country. You can read something like this, you immediately get your back up, you put way more into it than what was intended. Perhaps at some point some of you will calm down and listen to us.

      • Debbie Lass

        I think the same can be said for conservatives as well….

      • secondlook

        I was speaking about conservatives.

    • Stephen Barlow

      As you judge, you shall reap what you sow. Enjoy earth because hell will be full of hatemongers like you, all judging YOU as you judged others.

      If Jesus was as you conceive of him, then you know that sleeping with 12 guys and only letting women cook and clean for him surely means Christ was GAYER than Little Richard!!!

    • Abs

      & you are wasting the only life we KNOW we have. Of course you know what your imaginary friend thinks is right or wrong, he lives in your head. Its always amazing to me how god always hates the same people that each follower does. (I know you’ll say you don’t “hate”, but what else would you call it when someone worships an imaginary friend who thinks its loving to torture your friends & some of your loved ones, forever.)
      Truth is, even if there is a god, you only have about a 1 in 3000 chance that you’re following the “real” one, and around a 1 in 41,000 chance that you’re following the right sect. Do you think another god will want to torture the people who worshipped a fake god & acted hateful towards people? It seems to me that it would be much easier to live your life instead of threatening other people about something that you have almost no chance of being right about.

      • Debbie Lass

        so long as ones religion isn’t forced on you who cares what ones belief is? if it keeps them on a track of good etc….not your business….im a Christian and a believer and I don’t force my beliefs on anyone..i believe the constitution , if we are to really follow it, should leave religion out of laws….im great with our leaders being religious people but not creating laws about their religion that mposes on others. On the other hand, I think it perplexing why people seem so ugly and attacking to those who believe…as if there is fear in those who don’t…and the way they deal with it is to dismiss what someone believes….and beat up on them for believing…which then borders on the line of forcing NON belief on someone and is just as wrong as someone forcing their belief on another…worry about yourself..and leave people who believe alone as long as it isn’t being forced on you…

  • Stephen Barlow

    The flaw in Allen Clifton’s statement, “That’s what makes the First Amendment so wonderful. We’re given the right to privately believe whatever we want to believe without fear of prosecution.” is that the Constitution says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; …” There is ZERO protection from PERSECUTION by others, only the prohibition of a state religion.

    TAXING religious entities should NOT violate the 1st amendment simply because taxation does NOT prohibit the free exercise of religion. it is NOT a law intended to even inhibit religion, it would just eliminate the 90% of scams and cults, thus protecting your rights under the Amendment.

  • RIbluebird


  • CP

    God doesn’t exist or he would have killed me with a lightning bolt by now.

  • Richard Passanante

    Why would anybody want to drag their faith down to the level of politics? Is anyone dumb enough to believe that politics will rise to the level of a common faith and spirituality? Good luck with that.

  • Marshall Rogers

    By keeping the Church out of the State you keep the State out of the Church.

    • Gary

      A Simple Explanation For Those Who Don’t Seem to Get Why Religion Should Stay Out of Government

  • Spammeplez

    Ummm, don’t get it at all. Dennis from Utah

  • colBoh

    “Give to Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and give to God that which is God’s.”

  • tsm

    It’s a bit strange that the title of this article says “Religion should stay out of politics.” However, in the first sentence you state that you are a liberal Christian?

  • Theresa Lydy

    It makes perfect sense to me.

  • JR

    “Because as far as “faith” goes, nobody is really right and nobody is really wrong.” No, correct or incorrect is most certainly an empirical fact. That you can’t prove that you’re wrong doesn’t mean that your answers are equally likely as other things. In the end though, only one out of any group of contradictory ideas can be true. You religious folk can’t all be right, but you can most certainly all be wrong.

  • Chris

    WOW what a pile of senseless dribble. First of all as Christians WE are supposed to care for the poor that is our personal responsibility. To often Liberals want to remove themselves from that equation and make it a government program which have by in large made matters worse. Secondly Christians are to treat people with love and kindness, but that does not mean we have to condone or approve of sinful lifestyles. Homosexuality is a sin plain and simple that is not hateful or judgmental it is a fact. If we truly love homosexuals we do need to make sure they are treated equally under the law and in society but we should still offer them a loving way out as well. Many can deny the success of these programs but that doesn’t change the fact that they work. That being said the fact is that Christ Himself said that he was going to offend people and break apart families. This whole “cant we all get along” stuff has got to stop!!! IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO ETERNAL LIFE THEN YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!! CALL YOURSELF WHAT YOU WILL BUT YOU WILL BE SURPRISED WHEN THE DAY COMES. AND IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN YOU SHOULD WANT YOUR GAY FRIENDS TO JOIN IN THE SAME FUTURE. CONDONING SIN IS CONDEMNING THE SINNER TO HELL

    • DrVonEvilPants

      Maybe next time you should read the article.

  • BrianP


  • Amy Elizabeth Poehler

    Very well said.

    The radicals complain that Christians are being persecuted – they should try being ANY other religion and then tell us what persecution feels like. Some people find out I’m an atheist and our relationship is never the same. I respect all religions and beliefs, but I absolutely will not sit back and let others push their beliefs on to me or anyone else. If this were any other religion, it would be an entirely different story.

  • littleellum

    One thing we do know, is that we don’t know, and may never know the truth to our existence. We have plenty of current and past examples of religion run countries and the destructive force of evil that comes out of the hate for others they have been taught

  • Sean David Jackson

    Not all “conservative” christians judge people because of their sexuality. Yes we don’t agree with it but it is not my place to judge that person. I do believe homosexuality is a sin. sin is sin. we all are guilty of it. we are all destined for hell based off of our sin. However, by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, he made the only way to have eternal life with Him in heaven. If you are a homosexual, a person who performs sex outside of marriage, or any other form of sin and you are a Christian then I would like to encourage you to study scripture on these issues. Those sins among others is mentioned in different places talking about how it is sin and that it is an abomination. Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.