If Republicans Would Just Get Out of the Way, Our Economy Would Be Much Better Off

BoehnerThere are a few indisputable facts about our economy since Obama became President of the United States.  We’ve created nearly 7 million jobs, unemployment dropped from a high of 10.1% down to 7.4%, stocks continue to set records and corporate profits have also hit record highs.  Oh, and despite popular right-wing rhetoric, we’ve seen the largest reduction in our yearly deficits since after WWII.

And we’ve done all of this with zero help from Republicans.  None.

In fact, not only have they done absolutely nothing—they’ve done all they can to get in the way and obstruct any kind of progress in any way possible.

So the reality is, we’ve made this kind of economic progress despite Republican efforts to prevent it.  Imagine what we might have been able to accomplish had they actually tried to help?

Well, we know that’s not going to happen.  The GOP has given away to the “American Taliban” and has fully embraced political terrorism.  They’re willing to put the lives of millions of Americans at risk to achieve a political agenda.  Their efforts at blackmail, sabotage and extortion have failed so they’re now willingly embracing tactics which will purposely devastate the lives of millions of Americans and destroy our economy.

And make no mistake, their push to defund Obamacare is nothing more than a partisan political agenda.  Republicans have done everything in their power to sabotage a law which requires cooperation for it to work properly.

But while our economy has shown many positive signs of improvement, it still has a long way to go; and the growth has been much slower than many had hoped for.  A slower than expected recovery thanks in large part to blatant Republican obstruction.

There are many days I just want to shout at the top of my lungs, “Get the hell out of our way and let us fix the mess you caused!”

Because that’s the truth of it.  Our economic issues were caused by 8 years of failed Bush policies.  Tax cuts that were never paid for, 2 unfunded wars and deregulation that led us right into an economic crash that rivaled the Great Depression.

Now these people have the nerve to stand in the way of Obama and Democrats trying to fix all of this, and then try to claim they are the problem?  The same party which is going to using the debt ceiling vote (a procedural measure that simply allows the government to pay its bills on money we’ve already spent) yet again as leverage to try to blackmail the president by holding our economy hostage—they’re the ones blaming Obama and Democrats for a slower than expected recovery.

So, not only were they the party in charge leading up to this massive economic collapse, they’re now the party playing political games with our economy.  

And this doesn’t even include their continued push for devastating budget cuts that have cost thousands of public jobs, hurt our educational system and undermined key funding in our country that’s necessary to sustain ourselves as a world power.  And they’ve done all of this with the basic premise of “Obamacare is bad” and “we need tax cuts for the rich”—that’s it!  

Oh, and they’ve had the nerve to blame poor people for our nation’s troubles.  Yes, because poor people crashed our financial sector, gave the rich massive tax breaks and started two wars which went unfunded, right?

While we’ve tried to push forward as a nation to recover from our economic downfall, Republicans have literally done nothing but cause more problems.

Their only “jobs plan” they’ve had is the exact same policies we had that led us into our economic collapse.  Oh, and we can’t forget about the Keystone XL pipeline, which wouldn’t do a damn thing for real job creation.  It would create a bunch of temporary jobs and a small handful of permanent ones.  An absolute joke of a “plan” in the face of millions of jobs that are needed to get back where we were before Bush and his fellow Republicans sank our economy.

Then we have their insistence that more tax cuts for the rich is a magic elixir for everything.  Sorry, but if tax cuts and more wealth for the rich equated to jobs—our damn unemployment would be 3%.  The rich have never been richer, taxes are still at some of their lowest levels in history (and were for over a decade) and corporate profits are at all-time highs—yet jobs are still tough to find.

That proves trickle-down economics is a scam.

If all indicators at the top are positive, but the rest of the country is struggling, that shouldn’t happen according to trickle-down economics.  As per that economic theory, the growth for the bottom 98% should mirror the growth for the top 2%—it doesn’t.

In fact, reality shows us that the richer they get, the worse off the rest of us end up.  And that’s because money is not infinite.  There’s a finite amount to go around, and the more we shape policies which funnel most of it to a small percentage of our population, the less there is for the rest of us.

And the proof of that lies in the fact that as their wealth expands, the “wealth” for the poor and middle class shrinks.

But more of these same policies is what they claim to be “vital” for job creation.

I’m absolutely fed up with it.  Just get the hell out of our way.  If Republicans want to continue to play childish political games, then stop pretending to be adults.  Just step aside, shut up and let President Obama and Democrats do what they’ve been trying to do the last 4+ years—fix the damn mess.

The best hope for our economic recovery is for Republicans to just shut up and move aside.  Trying to have a discussion about how to help Americans and our economy when Republicans are involved equates to having a conversation with a group of adults while some child is jumping around in the middle of the group throwing a temper tantrum to get their way.

What they need to do is just go off and pout in a corner and let the adults handle business.

And if Republicans ever decide they want to actually start acting like adults, I’ll gladly welcome them back to the discussion to work together and help our country move forward.

Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening any time soon—if ever.  So until then, Republicans, please just get the hell out of the way.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.

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  • SRNCOIC

    This article is like swiss cheese. You left off the millions that have lost jobs and the fact that many of the jobs that were “created” are either government jobs or low-paying or part-time jobs. These types of jobs produce little if anything to add to our overall GDP which is still anemic.

    • Sherri G

      The point that’s being made is if the obstructionist had gotten the hell out of the way and had approved the jobs bills and the veteran bills and all the other stuff that would have improved infrastructure, education etc….we would have a hell of a lot more jobs full time jobs that would have been provided to those looking for work.

      • SRNCOIC

        See my reply to Beverly.

      • tigerlily78

        It’s a lost cause Beverly. SRNCOIC has already learned everything he is ever going to know in life, it’s sad that so much of it is completely wrong and misinformed. You can lead a man to facts, but you can’t make him think.

      • Wild_Bird

        Government needs to get out of the way so that the private sector can expand and create jobs and opportunity. Government has gotten way too intrusive and Obamacare is incentivizing businesses to stay under 50 full time employees.
        Bad fiscal, monetary and regulatory policy are hurting our economy and causing growth to remain anemic and the job market to be weak.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Show me that government has been in the way. Nice sound bite but totally inaccurate. The bad monetary policies occurred under Bush’s watch.

      • Wild_Bird

        At a time when removing barriers to entrepreneurship and business creation/expansion should be the government’s top priority in order to create a strong economy and robust job market, the threat of higher taxes, new government regulations and costly mandates is like a dark cloud hanging over the economy. Obamacare is already having a devastating
        effect on our national economy.

        Obamacare’s employer mandate, which requires employers to offer health insurance or face stiff penalties, is one of the main reasons many companies are not hiring more workers.

        Moreover, Obamacare includes hundreds of billions in tax increases that will hit businesses and individuals hard. Medical device companies have already started laying off workers because of the medical device tax in Obamacare. Device manufacturers are facing a 2.3 percent excise tax on all U.S. sales of their products.

        As to monetary policy, Obama retained Fed Chairman Bernanke who has continued the same easy money monetary policies under Obama that he pursued
        under Bush.

        Free market capitalism has worked every time it has been tried in human history. The choice couldn’t be clearer:

        1) Economic freedom and entrepreneurship leading to much higher rates of economic growth and more jobs for the so many people who can’t find work; or

        2) “fairness” through confiscation of more income of the rich, redistribution of wealth, lowering the rewards for entrepreneurial risk taking and success through
        punitive taxation, and spending money we don’t have without regard for our children’s future. The end result of this misguided approach is very slow economic
        growth and a very weak job market.

        The choice couldn’t be clearer unless you are someone like Obama who is obsessed raising
        taxes to socially engineer equality of result through redistribution of wealth instead of pursuing sound economic policies to maximize economic growth and jobs through free enterprise.

        Full Disclosure: I am a person of very modest
        means who is just barely getting by in this life.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        So explain why around where I live people are hiring like crazy. And why we’ve replaced the same number of jobs lost because Bush wrecked the economy. Also, prove to me regulation is a problem because business people have said lack of demand, not regulation, has been a problem. To what regulations do you refer? Or is that just the convenient bogeyman like “waste, fraud and abuse?”

        I like the idea of fairness. It’s what I grew up on.

        So you do admit, unlike many others, that not all employers offer health benefits. And that someone could be working full-time and still not have health insurance.

        Medical devices are overpriced to begin with. The DaVinci robot is $2 million and comes with a $150,000 annual service contract. Tell me THAT isn’t a waste of money!

      • Wild_Bird

        Thanks for your comment.

        I have no idea where you live, but I do know that (1) labor participation rate, which is a more accurate measure than the unemployment rate, is at its lowest level since 1978; (2) unlike under Presidents Clinton and Bush 43, there has been a regulatory tsunami under Obama that is smothering businesses in red tape and making it harder to be profitable and create jobs; (3) the Left’s version of “fairness” with confiscatory taxes on upper income people ends up hurting the non-rich the most by hurting economic growth and job creation; and (4) there is strong bipartisan opposition to the medical device tax, even from staunch liberals like Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts.

        Again, the slow economic growth we currently have is a direct result of the misguided fiscal and regulatory policies of the Obama administration, which has put our economy in a straightjacket with higher taxes,too much regulation and Obamacare.

        We need to unleash our private sector so that it can grow at a faster rate of at least 3 percent. The job market is mediocre at best. At this stage in an economic recovery we should be creating 250,000 to 350,000 jobs a month, but unfortunately we’re not.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        You are merely parroting FOX talking points with no data to back up your yammering. Ask any business person and s/he will tell you regulation isn’t a problem. What regulations? What “misguided fiscal policies?” How is it we recovered a lot faster than Europe, which bought into the austerity crap? And if you’ve read anything written by a REPUTABLE economist, you’d realize this isn’t a typical recession and we are NOT going to have a typical recovery.

        The rich should pay more in taxes; they have most of the money. The fact that economic gains have gone to the top 1% over the past 30 years never seems to bother you conservatives and I’m not sure why. You are not going to be rich and the 1% are going to make damned sure of that.

        Tax cuts don’t create jobs-never have and never will. Taxes went UP during Clinton and we had a great run. The tax rate during Eisenhower’s administration was 91% and we built schools, hospitals and the Interstate Highway System. And you do remember Obama gave everyone a tax cut, then later raised taxes only on those with incomes over $250K

        I live in the Chicago suburbs. We are doing quite well, thank you. So take your FOX parrot act and run along, little boy.

      • Wild_Bird

        You are a very sick puppy. Indeed, Dr. Lyle Rossiter, a board-certified clinical psychologist, wrote a book in which he diagnosed the ideology of the loony Left as a tangible mental illness. Perhaps though, liberalism is not so much a novel mental disorder, but a more cleverly disguised form of illness already widely studied since the late ‘60s – narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
        The Mayo Clinic defines NPD as “a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration.” This seems in tune with the fact that liberals, along with their degenerate offspring, the Occupy Wall Street movement, believe their policies and platforms fall in the majority WHICH THEY DON’T.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        I think you described yourself perfectly and I do believe there is a corresponding conservative derangement syndrome. I have no need for admiration. I do have a need for factual arguments, which you can’t provide (as you sidestepped my question about “what misguided fiscal policies.”

        Thanks and please try again.

      • Wild_Bird

        I already described them but you are unable to comprehend as your Marxist straightjacket made them to difficult for you to grasp. I guess you’ve been marinating in Marxist ideology for too long old man.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        You have largely listed your opinions. You’ve not presented any empirical data proving those opinions to be actual fact.

      • Wild_Bird

        The progressives are for unlimited government and higher and higher taxes to fund their big government social engineering schemes and boondoggles.

        The U.S. Constitution limits government’s power. The Commerce Clause was written mainly to ensure interstate commerce unfettered by state interference, not to enable Congress to regulate every aspect of life and human activity. And the General Welfare Clause was meant to limit Congress’s taxing power pursuant to its enumerated ends to objects of national, not particular, concern: it wasn’t intended to enable Congress to redistribute private wealth at will.

        The great misapplication of our Constitution occurred during the New Deal after FDR’s infamous Court packing threat, when a cowed Court began turning the Constitution on its head. Roosevelt knew his program was unconstitutional. Indeed, in 1935 he wrote to the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee: “I hope your committee will not permit doubts as to constitutionality, however reasonable, to block the suggested legislation.”

        Rexford Tugwell, one of the principal architects of the New Deal, reflecting on his handiwork some 30 years later:
        “To the extent that these new social virtues [i.e., New Deal policies] developed, they were tortured interpretations of a document [i.e., the Constitution] intended to prevent them.”

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Gee, a lot of people who lived during the Depression would argue with you about the New Deal.

        And why didn’t the Supreme Court declare the New Deal unconstitutional between then and 2013? Maybe because it WASN’T?

      • Wild_Bird

        The actual tax rate in the 1950s was lower than it is today when you consider that the high tax rates in the 1950s allowed upper-income Americans to take exemptions and deductions that are unheard of today. That is right. Tax shelters were widespread, and not just for the super rich. The confiscatory top marginal rates of the 1950s were essentially symbolic—very few actually paid them. In reality the vast majority of top earners faced lower effective rates than they do today.
        In the real world as opposed to your make-believe alternative universe, low tax rates promote economic growth and prosperity because they increase the proportion producers can keep of what they produce, which increases incentives for productive activity such as saving, investment, risk taking, creating new businesses, expanding businesses, job creation, entrepreneurship, and work.

        Your argument about “fairness” and high federal tax rates is the same phony argument that you get from a President when you take a Marxist street agitator off the streets of inner city Chicago and put him in the White House, as the Democrat Party has done to America.
        The real world U.S. economy of today has the lowest labor force participation since 1978 and it is BECAUSE of the misguided and reckless fiscal and regulatory policy of the Obama administration and the Democrat Party.

        In the real world economy, so many Americans have given up looking for work because the miserable job market. Ergo – lowest labor participation rate in 35 years.

        Welcome to the real world disaster of Obamanomics. How tragic for our country!

        Finally, Illinois rivals California and New York as a fiscal and economic basket case. Democratic misrule has reached epic proportions, with the school districts, vendors, and doctors who treat Medicaid patients going unpaid for months. Unfunded state liabilities are mounting.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Do you have any factual evidence of Obama’s background or are you just parroting FOX again? And I’d like to you prove no one paid the high tax rates in the 1950s or that low tax rates have actually done us any good, when the opposite is readily apparent. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that low tax rates stimulate growth, None, Nada.

      • Wild_Bird

        You’re lazy. Do some digging on the internet and you’ll find plenty about Obama’s radical associations such as unrepentant domestic terrorist Bill Ayres and extreme anti-American rabble rouser “Reverand” Jeremiah Wright whose “church” Obama went to for about 20 years.
        Come off your Fox shtick. I don’t watch Fox News. You’re beginning to sound like Johnny One Note.
        The labor participation rate is the lowest in 35 years. The national debt is about $17 Trillion Dollars. The total of unfunded liabilities for the United States is well over $100 Trillion Dollars.
        How’s is Obama’s big government liberalism on steroids working out for the U.S.?
        Hmmmmmmmmmm….

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        We have a much better economy than we did in 2009, so I think it’s working out quite well. And globalism did more to wreck jobs than even Bush. Funny that you never objected to Bush doubling the debt.

      • Wild_Bird

        Actually, we had a housing bubble created mostly by DemocRATS and their so-called Community Reinvestment Act. Fannie and Freddie were at the epicenter of the 2008 financial crisis. Bush tried to institute reforms, but the recalcitrant Barneys Frank and Chris Dodd and the entire DemocRAT Party resisted.

        In 2007, as Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee and just as Fannie and Freddie – overleveraged and stuffed to the gills with risky mortgages they’d encouraged and facilitated – were
        about to go over the cliff, Mr. Frank attacked President George W. Bush’s call for reform as ‘inane.’

        Yet when Fannie and Freddie went belly up in the fall of 2008, Mr. Frank voted for the same Bush Administration reforms that could have averted the financial crisis and the massive bankruptcies of Fannie and Freddie costing taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars.

        Finally, how could you not mention the Koch brothers?

        Was it just an inadvertent oversight on your part?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        We had low tax rates for 8 years under Bush. The economy collapsed. And explain the “before” and “after” jobs numbers in this article, if you can:

        “…Unlike Republicans, the actual numbers don’t lie.

        January-June 2012 jobs reports before tax hikes:
        January: 243,000
        February: 227,000
        March: 120,000
        April: 115,000
        May: 69,000
        June: 80,000

        For a grand total, through 6 months of 2012 (before tax hikes), of 854,000 private sector jobs created.

        Now let’s take a look at 2013, after those “job killing tax hikes” were passed:

        January: 157,000
        February: 236,000
        March: 138,000
        April: 165,000
        May: 175,000
        June: 195,000

        For a grand total, through 6 months of 2013 (after tax hikes), of 1,066,000 private sector jobs created.

        For the mathematically challenged, that’s an increase of 212,000 more jobs created this year than last year at the same point.

        http://www DOT forwardprogressives DOT com/show-a-republican-this-to-expose-the-conservative-lie-about-taxes-and-job-creation/

      • Wild_Bird

        To the extent that there are jobs being created, a majority of them are part-time hamburger flipper jobs, not real jobs like during Reagan when he cut taxes and the economy boomed lifting millions out of poverty you moron!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        You forgot that Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration. And the factors that have us awash in low-paying jobs are due to global changes and nothing any president can control. But you are too stupid to understand complexity and can only parrot Rush and FOX.

        What jobs, exactly, appeared under Reagan and can you prove they were due to tax cuts. How about the great 8 years we had under Clinton when he RAISED taxes? THAT was a time to be working!

      • Wild_Bird

        From 1994-2000, we had a GOP House and Senate to keep unnecessary wasteful spending (what Democrats call “investment”) and higher taxes in check. The Clinton defense is superficially plausible, but it fails under closer scrutiny. Economic growth was solid but hardly spectacular in the years immediately following the 1993 tax increase. The real economic boom occurred in the latter half of the decade after the 1997 capital gains tax cut from 28 percent to 20 percent. This tax cut spurred
        much stronger economic growth, job creation and paradoxically increased revenues to the treasury. A genuine Win Win.

        As to Reagan, his sweeping economic reforms and deep across-the-board tax cuts, market deregulation, and sound monetary policies to contain inflation resulted in the largest peacetime economic boom in American history.

        Indeed, Reaganomics was so successful because it increased incentives to work and invest. Real per-capita disposable income increased dramatically (about 18%) from 1982 to 1989, meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just seven years. The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak. The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade. And contrary to left wing disinformation, the economic gains were enjoyed by not just the people at the top but many Americans who moved up the economic ladder from the bottom quintiles to the upper quintiles. Income mobility was great. 21 million jobs were created between December 1982 and June 1990

        Obamanomics, on the other hand, has been an unmitigated disaster as it doggedly pursues the opposite of every aspect of the Reaganomics. Only the rich are doing well now. Incomes are stagnant. Economic mobility is significantly lower. The middle class and the poor are barely getting by. Jobs aren’t even keeping up with population growth.

        Obamanomics is decreasing incentives to work and invest and take risks to create new businesses and grow jobs. By punishing success, people work less and are less inclined to take risks and create the new enterprises or expand existing businesses knowing that the government will punish their success. This doesn’t hurt the already rich, it hurts those who aspire to climb the economic ladder and some day become rich.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        No, taxes went up and spending went up under Ciinton. Try again. And what do you consider “unnecessary wasteful spending?” Anything a Democrat spends money on? I think our military is the biggest waste of bucks. By the way, do you even know the breakdown of the budget and what is “mandatory” spending vs. “discretionary” spending?

        That “economic boom” was largely driven by internet business. The capital gains tax cut had absolutely nothing to do with it. So why was job growth so anemic under Bush II, who CUT taxes???

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        According to THIS (http://en DOT wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms)
        there were MORE jobs created during Jimmy Carter’s term than Reagan’s first term (10,339,000 for Carter vs. 5,322,000 for Reagan.) Clinton saw more jobs created during EITHER of his terms than Reagan’s second term (11,507,000 and 11,223,000 for Clinton vs. 10,780 for Reagan).

        Tell me again how tax cuts create jobs?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        “Regulations,taxes aren’t killing small business, owners say.” http://www DOT mcclatchydc DOT com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html#.UkjgYT-1tnM

      • Wild_Bird

        TOTALITARIANISM IS DEEPLY EMBEDDED IN THE ROTTING, MUTATED DNA OF THE LEFT.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        You poor stupid troll.

      • Wild_Bird

        Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
        You liberals are like vultures, gnawing on the carcass of the American republic.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        No, that has been the conservatives who have redistributed income to the rich. Amazing that you never have a problem with money gets redistributed UP.

      • Wild_Bird

        The bottom 50% of people in the U.S. pay NO federal income taxes you Left#ard!
        You are a flat earth economic illiterate just like the pinprick Obama!!!
        Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        That is because they don’t have enough money. And actually, anyone getting a paycheck pays income taxes. Have you ever seen a poor person’s paystub with NO withholding for federal taxes? Seems that is illegal.

        They just get it back at the end of the year. Some of them benefit from the Earned Income Tax Credit, which was enacted in 1975. Reagan called it “the best antipoverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” (The Chicago Tribune, October 23, 1986.)

        I pay twice the federal poverty level in federal tax and the fact that they don’t pay federal taxes doesn’t bother me. Why does it bother you?

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        reads like small dicked GIAN KEYS “mantid man”…………….. crybaby regressive tea party failure

      • Wild_Bird

        How were you able to remove your straitjacket?
        Who let you out of your padded room?

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        hey little dick— hows the superior prospect of Hillary 2016-2024 and then liz warren after that grab ya? makes me insulated with a padded STRAIGHTjacket,,,,,,,,,,,, NOTE: little bird: please attempt 2 learn how to spell if U wish 2 be “thought of” as viable

    • Beverly Haley

      How many times have the republican voted on ANY type of job bills? That would be… let me see.. oh yes….NONE!

      • SRNCOIC

        The GOP has introduced over thirty jobs bills that Dingy Harry won’t bring up for votes in the Senate. There’s your real obstructionist, right there.

        I would post links to proof of these bills but the site moderator deletes my posts that have links. Apparently he/she is afraid of his sheeple seeing the truth.

      • Beverly Haley

        No, I think it is more that they do not want links here as mine was also deleted… however I used the search string “Republican Jobs Bills” and from what I read.. you are correct 30 bills… but what you are not saying is that these “Bills” would not really create jobs they are designed to cut regulations.

      • SRNCOIC

        Over-regulating has often proven to be a jobs killer. You can’t always take a cookie cutter approach to regulation, especially from a bureaucracy the size of the US government. More often than not, regulations that are appropriate in one region may not be viable in another region. Once it becomes official, It’s nearly impossible to deregulate because of partisan politics. Many of those jobs bills make adjustments to regulations or updates regulations that are outmoded or the technology exists to be able to eliminate the reg all together.

        This is one of the reasons conservatives prefer smaller federal government. We want states to have more power to regulate because regs will be written with local knowledge instead of some bureaucrat a thousands miles away that might come visit once or twice before final regs are written.

        Despite the hyperbole from the left, we just want smarter, more efficient and economically feasible government.

      • gemma liar

        except when u want to make a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SUCH AS ABORTION killed….or when U want to tell women to get a mandated trans vaginal ultrasound procedure in front OF any abortion. Or small dicked rightwing regressives trying to outlaw oral sex even with MARRIED couples,,,, LETS ALL HEAR IT FOR THE RIGHTWING!!

      • SRNCOIC

        Right, it’s so terrible to stop the genocide of millions of innocent lives that was a result of reckless behavior. How many babies have you murdered?

      • tigerlily78

        Believe it or not, birth control is not 100% effective. Nor does a woman’s menstrual cycle stay consistent over her lifetime (I’m looking at you “rhythm method users” many of whom eschew birth control for religious reasons). Is it “reckless” behavior if you forget to take a pill at the right time of the morning or if there’s a hole in a condom. Is it “reckless” to get raped?

        I often muse that if MEN faced an equal reality like that of women, where something as simple as forgetting to take a pill one day could change their lives irreparably and incur lifetime expenses of around $240,000… that men would be singing a different tune on this issue.

        There is also the sad reality that many people can no longer afford to have a child, and there are a good many people that are emotionally and psychologically ill equipped to raise a child. Is it better to bring children into the world who will live in poverty, squalor, abuse than to let them pass innocently into the ether or up into the arms of Jesus in heaven?

        If Conservatives want less abortion there are many common sense things they could do to help the situation. But they largely do not want to embrace things that help people have a responsible sex life, and instead err on the dogmatic. Other people who do not practice your religion should not be expected to live by your covenants, but that doesn’t keep a lot of you from trying to force that doctrine.

        If Conservatives ACTUALLY really cared about reducing abortion, they would:
        1. demand social changes that make families better able to support children… including higher wages, mandatory paid family leave, low cost comprehensive health insurance for everyone. If families could get back to a place where one fulltime income could meet their basic needs, I think you’d see a shift towards young adults feeling capable of raising a baby in a way a lot of them don’t feel they can in the current environment.

        2. Support the widespread availability of free or low cost birth control, including things like IUDs, extended control birth control shots, that maintain a longer period of coverage with less chance of “forgetting” what becomes a daily, mundane.

        3. *Offer* (not force) low cost sterilization to any woman who has more than one abortive service.

        4. Put more money into the Foster Care and Adoption system… so people who will not be good parents can be replaced by people who hopefully can be. As it is now it costs tens of thousands of dollars for a family to adopt a child right in the US. There are also a lot of weird rules for foster care, so that many families with other adopted children can’t take in others unless their children are certain ages.

        And of course comprehensive sex ed in schools, rather than “abstinence only” goes a long way towards reducing teen pregnancy rate.

        Just for the record, I had an ectopic pregnancy once. In states where there are “no exception” abortion laws in play, my life could have been endangered by policy. Lawmakers are often so blinded by their rhetoric that they ignore the many valid, necessary, situations where an abortion is actually a merciful act for the parents and the baby. They seem to think that if they pass a really terrible, extremist law that doctors will just go out on a limb and save a woman’s life despite the laws in place, or that women will just be able to hop a plane (Rick Santorum and wife style) to get the procedure somewhere else…. the reality is these laws are taking what is already a difficult situation for 98% of the women involved and making it even more difficult.

        In my own case, I suffered through this painful situation without even telling most of my family members, including my own mother because she, like you is an anti-abortion zealot. And the last thing I needed while grieving and healing was the possibility that someone would try to heap more guilt or pain into the situation than was already warranted. Maybe my situation would have lent them some clarity, but at the time I just didn’t have it in me to have to face up to any bullshit.

      • SRNCOIC

        Abortions should be extremely rare in certain viable instances. But there have been more than 50 million innocent Americans murdered since Roe v Wade. Less than 1% from rape or incest and slightly less than 10% from medical complications.

        What about the other 89%?

      • tigerlily78

        Wow, did you see the recommendations that would be legitimately anti-abortion and pro-birth and pro-family? Those situations are largely influential in the decisions of many women… the 89% as you refer to them as.

        But of course you’d prefer to ignore the social and financial circumstances that play into both unplanned pregnancies and the decision to have an abortion, and instead just trumpet the same dogma.

        Leave it to a Republican to defend the rights of the unborn, and not give a shit about the people who are living. Ignore the real life circumstances and consequences and instead hold on to the empty rhetoric without any real consideration for solutions that might improve the situation.

      • tigerlily78

        Incidentally, in the natural world other animals, many of them mammals, have the innate ability to terminate a pregnancy and reabsorb their embryos (bears, dogs, rabbits, horses, cows, goats) if conditions are such that the longterm success rate of the offspring surviving to adulthood are low or if the mother is under stress.

        If we had taken a different evolutionary path, we might not even be having this conversation now. That this ability is found in “God’s Creation” could be considered evidence that God does not put new life for the sake of life, above the basic needs of the living. Nature sees reason in the ability to terminate a life, rather than expend resources on a life that may not thrive.

        Personally, I prefer that the children who do enter into this world are given a secure foundation in which to grow and thrive. I don’t see the sense in millions of babies being born into a world where there is not a suitable parent to love them, guide them, and provide the resources, time, and energy required to properly raise them.

      • SRNCOIC

        The unborn are blameless here so don’t you dare. it’s the living who abandon self control and personal responsibility for a few moments of self-gratification. Leave it to you, the hypocritical left, to promote promiscuity and immorality without considering the consequences. Once the consequences become to fruition but are “too much to bear” then you come squealing to the grownups, the ones who work and pay the bills. The ones who take responsibility for their own actions. I’m sick of you weak-minded bleeding hearts who think that you can have a wild ride through life, pretending that you care about others when you can’t see that you’re selfish to the core. It’s all about how you feel instead of how your actions will affect people that don’t even know you. Have some dignity and show some respect, not just for others, but for yourself.

      • tigerlily78

        Your assertion that sex for pleasure or for reasons other the procreation or sex outside of marriage is “immoral” is just more religious dogma. It’s arbitrarily determined by your own personal religious views.

        I know, you think you are special. You think humans are so different from animals. You think a sperm + egg = person, even though it takes another 3 to 5 days for implantation in the womb, and that a large percentage of eggs never implant successfully.

        You think we have some moral obligation to overpopulate the planet with precious humans who think and act just like you. And I am the selfish one.

        So much for personal responsibility.

      • SRNCOIC

        I’m areligious so that bit about religious dogma isn’t relevant to me. However I’m not amoral.

        As a human, I do think I’m special. Animals often kill and eat the offspring of their rivals–I’ve never done that. You’re not so special. Aborting an unborn child to control population growth is no different than the wolf who kills his rivals’ cubs to control the population of his rival’s clan so more food is available.

        I guess that makes you a humanimal. Perhaps you should inquire about being sterilized so you don’t produce anymore humanimals.

        You can beg the taxpayers to pay for that too…

      • tigerlily78

        It’s also reality that about 60 – 70% of the women having abortion these days are already mothers. I am sure their decision to terminate a pregnancy has so much to do with their innate selfishness, and nothing to do with having a child or children already that they are struggling to provide for.

        Again, thank goodness you as a man you are not predisposed by your gender to have to accept the consequences of bad luck, or forgetfulness on your reproductive destiny.

        I do actually have a child. Thanks though for your vote of confidence.

        I always find it humorous when the person complaining about ad hominid attacks in a different part of the thread, decides to use them after all.

        I am not sure I can even imagine what life must be like to live with your level of cognitive dissonance.
        The hypocrisy from the right continues unabated.

        -Be personally responsible, but don’t expect your full time employment for a profitable corporation to meet the costs of your basic needs.

        -Women should never have sex unless they want to get pregnant. Men should view all women as sex objects at all times… never these two views shall meet.
        – A fetus is innocent and alive and precious. A toddler whose mother is getting WIC or food stamps, despite working is a leech by association.

        -And you know, it’s not like people ever get divorced. If they do it must always be the woman’s fault. Single mothers always chose their circumstances because they are all whores, even if they were happily married at the time their children were conceived.

        -If only more women kept their unwanted pregnancies, then our country would be on the road to prosperity!

        Magical thinking. It must be nice to have the comfort of delusion.

      • SRNCOIC

        Wow, you are genetically predisposed to be a victim.

        Despite your rhetoric, no conservative I know desires to deprive anyone of basic necessities. Studies show that conservatives are more generous with their own money and time than liberals, who are more generous with other people’s money.

      • tigerlily78

        This is a generalization based on studies that fail to acknowledge that tithing at church, which is a common Conservative practice that probably amounts for the lion’s share of their giving is in many ways not really a legitimate charitable act… they are donating money to support an organization that they derive personal benefit from and in many cases these donations go to support the clergy staff and property needs of the church (or a giant million dollar cross along the highway for the glory of God), not so much direct support to people in need.

        I can’t speak for everyone, but I know I spend a lot more time doing volunteer work than the average American. I donate to a local food pantry at a church I don’t even attend. My husband often jokes that we have either time OR money to give to various causes, but not both.

        I am generous with my time and my money because I have been fortunate enough to have a little of each to spare for the benefit of others and I feel it is the right thing to do, and can only hope that if the shoe was on the other foot, those programs would be there for me if I needed them.

        I tend to approach life like we are all in the same boat. If someone wants to poke more holes in the other end of the boat to benefit their end in the short term, the end outcome is still that they have sunk us all. That’s not a winning philosophy.

      • Larry

        Boy! That last statement by Guest, and the for the most part the rest of his comments, Complete and utter Blind BullShit!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yeah, they do. They just voted to kill 40 billion from food stamps. Conservatives are not more generous when you take giving to church out of the equation. In my experience, conservatives are mean-spirited and stingy.

      • melloe

        What studies. I have heard this before, and when asked to put up or shut up, they cannot provide where or some off the wall supposed study posted on breitbart. Give me a beak. Those studies include the very rich who almost NEVER give a penny that purposefully goes to the poor or needy. In their personal lives, the rich give to museums, and the like..seldom for the poor or needy. The rights total giving outside of their favorite “charity” which if it aids anyone outside the rich is an accident, is less than a trickle. Again, you are FOS. You need to turn off fox propaganda machine.

      • melloe

        To start with, we have the minor lie the right uses about abortion. Life does not begin at conception. Mammal life begins at some time after that when the two combine and do their job. Human life does not begin until the mammal fetus develops certain human specific qualities ( about when there is debate )..2nd trimester maybe. If you are going to use the Biblical argument, then you lose. The bible states in several places, that it ( human life begins and gets a soul ) begins when the fetus takes the first breath.
        All that said, I don’t believe in abortion as a means of birth conmtrol. But I am dead against The Governments involvement in the issue.
        So how many of those “murders” you falsely tout are actually “murders” ? At what point do they become so? Anser: Once born when you and the rest of the right could give a crap about them.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Well it was liberals that brought us eugenics and defend 50 year old Muslims who mary 10 year old children. No liberal has ever cared about children.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        And you can prove that? What an idiot. Liberals are far more concerned with living kids than conservatives. That’s why we like things like low-cost child care, early education, Head Start, decent education, decent housing, etc.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        History proves you wrong…..Eugenics of the 1930’s abortion of today…..apoligizing for Muslim child abusers. No liberals have a very long history of not caring for children.

      • DJD11

        Who has been *apologizing for Muslim child abusers?

        Show proof, please.

      • splashy79

        Apologizing for Muslim child abusers? Where on earth did you get THAT one?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Teen birth and abortion rates are their lowest since 1972, largely because of contraception. And it’s a pity you’re not as concerned about kids once they are born.

      • disqus_6AeSbMRBY2

        Typical rightwingnut response; trying to be oh so holier-than-thou on the abortion issue, and it is ALL you’ve effing got. Problem is, after that kid has popped out, he/she is on his/her own. Cuts in SNAP, cuts in education, insane repeated attempts to repeal something that will NEVER BE REPEALED. I used to think that Republicans were stubborn, but at least principled. Now it seems that even principles have been rejected as “too moderate.” The Republicans will lose big in the next few elections, and they will have no one to blame but themselves.

      • DJD11

        Aaaand you just lost your credibility.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        The US has regulated business out of America and it is great for the rest of the world….unfortunatly for Americans but since they were stupid enough to let it happen they don’t deserve to have any jobs. Thay wanted a communist economy and now they have one. China, India, Canada are all getting the rewards from American over regulation. What is America left with…..a $15 TRILLION dollar debt……$5 TRILLION in the last 5 years alone….and a constant cry to increase the debt. When the money runs out America collapses…..the rest of the world thanks you.

      • DJD11

        The only businesses that have been “regulated out of America” are ones that don’t want to pay a living wage or don’t care about the pollution they produce.

      • Jeff Barber

        The Republicans just cost us 24 billion due to a government shutdown.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Over regulation is NOT a problem and you can’t prove it. The biggest problem with the economy, according to business, has been lack of demand, not regulation. Either prove regulation is a problem or stop drinking the FOX Kool-aid

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        And cut taxes…so they are not real jobs bills.

      • gemma liar

        hey kreskin,,,,,,,,,,,,,, those so-called JOBS bills always want cuts to medicare/Medicaid/ social security ETC,,,thats why harry doesn’t waste taxpayer money on a senate vote. get YOUR FOX “news” ‘facts’ straight,,,, then nod in approval of the lean weighted rhetoric from Hannity and Limbaugh and michelle ( still pissed at life for no breasts) malkin

      • SRNCOIC

        You played the Fox Card again? Together with hate radio??? Consider me trumped…LMAO!

        It’s obvious you get your talking points from the union hall and the Daily Commie…er…Worker.

      • Brent Slensker

        Oooo! The “commie” word”! When you can define that word and put it in a discussion with the proper context, maybe people would take you seriously. But right now, you can’t define it, or use it in context, you LOSE!

      • SRNCOIC

        What did I lose, there Slinky? You gonna brag to all the other little androgynous cohorts that you one-upped some anonymous person on the Internet?

        LMAO! Carry on then…

      • gemma liar

        hey kreskin,,,try “epicene” instead,,,,, it is “infra dig” to attempt thy oligophrenial name-calling without utilizing a common word such as androgynous,,,,dontcha think??
        I do believe lemmings of your ilk are more comfy with the over-used “socialist” – please stay in step with the regressive verbosity or U will be placed further down the list.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yeah, he one-upped an anonymous scumbag troll.

      • gemma liar

        absoluuuutely! im a commie because I actually READ and look at cnn/fox/msnbc and READ even more for the ability to make decisions upon what I see and hear– remember: 6 yrs ago I was neutral: knowing nothing about politics….started reading newspapers and watchingfox/msnbc and cnn,,,,,guess what? I became an independent with liberal leanings after I saw FOX “news” relying upon opinions,,,and cnn and msnbc using FACTS ( backed up by impartial stuff from CBO and graphs and silly little things as that. I will bowingly acknowledge your consistant approach of sidestepping what I said ( repub job “bills” simply trying to cut needed programs such as medicare ETC) by NOT showing me any repub bills to the contrary yet namecalling akin to your mentors on regressive radio and TV ( see: FOX “news”) we all do appreciate thy unmoveable consistency!! keep up the great work,,,and don’t U dare actually show us any bills the repubs have which HELP americans!

      • SRNCOIC

        You’re too emotional to make any qualified decisions. It’s great to want to help everyone that needs it…however eventually you help yourself into the poorhouse. We’re going broke because the system set up to help people is rife with fraud and abuse, inefficiencies and endless bureaucracy in addition to being used as political pawns.

      • gemma liar

        so ur saying that some smelly white/black/Asian/latino trash beggar who screws the system by getting govt handouts ( foodstamps/medicare/unemployment) is far more injurious than these uber wealthy huge corporations who pay lobbyists to PAY congressmen to make laws allowing said companies to send profits overseas in hidden accounts or avoid ALL taxes with colorful loopholes to America???? Im emotional? yes when it comes to myopic trash who make these statements in abstentia while telling us JESUS is salvation and Obama is muslim/ martian/Kenyan ETC- You are an idiot because yo0u see BOTH sides yet ONLY cry about ONE

      • SRNCOIC

        LOL! I’m 180 degrees from being myopic, sweetie. And I’ve already explained that I’m areligious.

        I can see how emotional you are just by the syntax of your comment. I hope you don’t have any firearms or poison. I think you could be a danger to yourself.

      • gemma liar

        lets hear it for the sidestepper SRNCOIC!!! again ( as vermin of their ILK) didn’t answer my very very simple question??? FOX “news” will soon be hiring you for your own crybaby myopic ( YEP) show!!!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        you are extremely myopic and I’m amazed you can breathe and type at the same time.

      • 65snake

        You really cannot legitimately claim to be areligious while spouting religious rhetoric, “sweetie”.

      • gian keysTOOEASY flat mom

        hey!!!!!!!!!!! heavy calvary sergeant disguised!!!! fat loser regressive white trash with different name!! paid troll eruptus!

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        And you are just a pathetic clown troll. We’re going broke because the rich raped the economy.

      • melloe

        NO. we are going further in debt because of two wars on the credit card, the drug giveaway, , handouts to PIG OIL, and other corporations. Tax cuts for the Wealthy. Over 50% of the budget is for the Military Industrial Complex. Social Security and Medicare are not entitlements, but paid for by deductions from the workers checks. If Reagan and a few other dug into those funds, it is the politicians to work it out. But with those off the table, there is a very small part of the budget allocated for social programs. Sorry to mess on you right wing lies, but that don’t fly

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        funny how small dicked ( and smaller brained) losers such as U didn’t CRY when a white republican drove us over a cliff financially- now a black democrat? lets all hear it for MR BALANCED crybaby “guest”

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Why would they….Government can’t create jobs.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Neither can Republicans even though that’s what they campaigned on in 2010 and 2012. What happened when they got elected? Gay marriage and abortion.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        America only has two parties the Progressives and the tea party…..you’re not stupid enough to think the old republican and democratic parties still exist are you.

      • melloe

        That common right wing lie /statement is so stupid it is beyond funny. Government don’t hire anyone? Are you really that stupid. Or just like to repeat that stupid lie. In total , the government jobs, directly and indirectly make up a large portion of the jobs in the country. Directly, all politicians, NASA, and other government and state agencies, assistants to down to and including State level, Government health care workers at all levels, The Military, and indirectly, workers hired and partially funded to work on infrastructure. The way we pulled out of the 6 recessions or depressions that have happened till this one was government at partially funded programs including such things as roads and bridges. Get a life!

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        How does the Government pay for these “so called” jobs? It has to take the money from other jobs that exist in the real economy. So no Government can’t create jobs. Taking away real jobs that pay taxes to create new jobs that live off taxes….is a loss, not a gain.

      • Erika Frensley

        Jobs as a finite resource, really? If a gov’t project is funded, either gov’t resources (Army Corps of Engineers, etc) performs the work, or more likely, hires private contractors to perform the work. Thus a job is created, either directly or indirectly. Where is this bull about taking away jobs – links and solid proof, and actual logic, please.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        how about the military? that’s republican JOB ” creation” at its finest

    • schwarherz

      because government jobs aren’t really jobs…right…

      Also: part time job will still pay (most) of the bills better than no job.

      • SRNCOIC

        Government jobs don’t produce. They just recycle existing money through the system. Private sector jobs often produce new revenue spurred by private investment that mostly come with risk of loss.

      • tigerlily78

        So government jobs don’t inspect, maintain, or build bridges, or educate children, fight fires, prevent crime. Those things should all be free or provided by the lowest profiteering bidder? There is this interesting thing called “investment” where you spend money towards a goal in order to save money or generate more money in the future. Apparently some people have a hard time understanding how this principle applies to taxes, the commons, and the public good.

      • fdsa

        The Government makes investments also. Roads/highways, man on the moon, the atom bomb, are just a few examples.

      • mperhaps

        And the only people that get hired are from the tiny select union group, the private sector-you know the ones that get to pay for everything-they’re not allowed to bid on your govt infrastructure investments. In Calif the unions run the state Gov Brown is loyal employee of the SEIU, The Teachers Union, Cops, Firemen. The private sector has no say whatsoever in how much we pay for their services or how many we should hire. We have no voice in the system anymore. We just watch one county after another go bankrupt from their pensions. Calf Highway Patrol get to retire before puberty. Once they reach the age of 50 all of them and I mean ALL OF THEM come down with an obligatory back injury. Their contract awards them full retirement benefits PLUS 85% of their pension on top of their existing pension for faking a whatever injury. These people are in the top 7% of the states income bracket. We’re completely screwed by liberalism run amok

      • tigerlily78

        Sounds like jealousy to me. Maybe you should join a union? I live in Georgia where Unions are pretty scarce, so your assertion about who gets contracts is pretty much non-applicable.

        This seems like more anti-union rhetoric for the sake of being anti-union. If anything, maybe you should be asking why other industries and companies without unionization are doing such an excellent job marginalizing and devaluing workers, such that many jobs in America haven’t gotten wage or benefit gains to keep up with inflation over the last three decades.

        It doesn’t bother you at all that non-union workers are generally making less now in inflation adjusted dollars than they were in 1960?

      • mperhaps

        I’m all for unions in the private sector and I’m not really sure how to get rid of the state employee unions. Its just the natural progression of things. Of course state employees are going to organize, once they do they grow out of control. In Calif the largest corporate influence in state politics is At&T spending approx 8 million per yr buying politician to push policy in their favor. That’s child’s play- the SEIU spends 4 times that much buying politicians which is less than half what the Teachers union spends. Between them and the other state employee unions the private sector (the fools that pay for it all) have no voice whatsoever. There’s nobody on our side of the bargaining table, the unions and Gov Brown are both on the same side of the table discussing how best to screw over the private sector, there’s nobody representing us. No politician would dare, the union leaders would see to it that their political career is over. The results are predictable-San Bernardino, then Stockton, then Oakland and, Los Angeles all going Chapter 11 because they cannot afford these incredibly wealthy civil servants. I don’t know what the answer is. since we don’t have any voice in our political system anymore it seems like the only solution is let the unions keep going the direction they’re going. The only thing that will get their attention is checks that bounce. These unions are the enemy of private business they don’t care who they destroy as long as they’re helping the members. They pass laws that forbid private businesses from even bidding on jobs so the results is the poverty level of the city goes up but what do they care as long as their members are loaded.

      • tigerlily78

        So by your logic, one group of people making a living wage and getting retirement benefits due to their “connection” to government contracts is impoverishing “private industry” to an extent that everyone else lives in poverty?

        This seems like a tenuous explanation at best. Consider that the majority of people working for poverty level wages are in retail, food service, and other “low skill” service jobs like tanning salons… How do you account for the influence of Unions in forcing wage stagnation on these positions? There is no bidding process, there are no government contracts, there are no giant “food service worker unions” driving up benefits for some employees to the detriment of everyone else.

        What you really see the the “free market” working it’s magic… some stores such as Walmart are content to pay poverty level wages to their employees while the company itself sits poised in one of the top 3 slots of the Fortune 500 year after year as one of the most profitable US companies. In order to keep funneling company gains to the Walton Heirs and their stockholders, they are completely okay with letting millions of their workers collect social welfare programs. A recent study purported that every individual Walmart store in America is getting between $900,000 and $1.75 million in social aid for their employees. That is money that you and I as taxpayers are paying in to subsidize Walmart’s profitability, so that they don’t have to pay their employees a living wage.

        Contrast that with a store like Costco, that offers similar price points on a lot of items, but manages to pay their store associates an average of $54,000 a year… enough for most people to raise a family on without any government aid. Costco isn’t bankrupt, in fact it’s profits and market share are growing. Doing the right thing is not impossible, but it certainly isn’t seen as “good business” by executives in a corner office somewhere who will take advantage of every opportunity to line their own pockets at the expense of everyone else.

        “The ratio of CEO-to-worker pay has increased 1,000 percent since 1950, according to data from Bloomberg. Today Fortune 500 CEOs make 204 times regular workers on average, Bloomberg found. The ratio is up from 120-to-1 in 2000, 42-to-1 in 1980 and 20-to-1 in 1950.” Incidentally, the rise in CEO and Wall Street gains is almost inversely related to the decline in Union membership. This might indicate to some that the “power” of the Unions is really overstated, and expanding collective bargaining is probably long overdue in a lot of industries. Individual employees are in a pretty poor negotiating position in the current economy.

        For another matter of perspective, let’s look at how much compensation has grown over time for each group. A Economic Policy Institute study from 2012 found the following:

        – A 5.7% Increase in workers annual compensation from 1978 to 2011.

        – A 349.1% increase in the value of the S&P 500 from 1978 to 2011.

        – A 726.7% increase in annual CEO annual compensation from 1978 to 2011.

        To me that seems pretty well indicative of why so many average Americans seem to be treading water against inflation. It’s not because Unions are getting such sweet deals for just a few lucky workers and all the other businesses are struggling to get by. It is because the C Suite has systematically funneled the profits of most American enterprises to themselves. Greed, pure and simple.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        If PRIVATE business can not bid on the very projects they pay for then those business should not have to pay ANY income taxes.

      • Larry

        Seems to me ,it was only a few short years ago, under Repub Gov. California was going quickly down the Tubes. Now, finally, Under Brown, Demo by the way, Calif. is again one of the most prosperous places on Earth.

      • melloe

        Have you any idea how stupid and… never mind I ‘ll have to use a dirty word… how really stupid that remark sounds. So employees of the Government include politicians, and their staffs, health care workers, Police, the Military, NASA and other agencies, Fed and State. Just to name a few of many…And all those people are controlled by Unions. We could hope, but no, that is either a stupid lie, or ignorance, or just a very broad exaggeration.

      • gemma liar

        so,,,,,,,,,,,,explain how this SOCIALIST Ghana/ Kenyan/martian president “allowed” those all-time record profits in huge businesses or that silly DOW hitting ALL TIME HIGHS>>>??

      • SRNCOIC

        He didn’t build that. Someone else did, despite his deliberate actions to destroy the economy.

      • Brent Slensker

        HILARIOUS! You mention yet ANOTHER bullshit taken out of context propaganda meme!

      • SRNCOIC

        Hey Slinky! Didn’t know you were the scorekeeper or I would have paid my respects before.

        This site is really fun; you have a troll monitor, an ad hominem monitor, the grammar police, you got the card dealers who have full decks of race cards, the Fox News card, hate cards, every-type-of-phobia-there-is cards, you got your Koch addicts and now a scorekeeper.

        That is so cool how you are getting all organized and stuff. Do you all meet for coffee to divide up the work or is it more like a collective subconsciousness like the Borg?

      • gemma liar

        no silly,,we drink some bizarrely altered KOOL AID according to micropenile slubberdegullion such as you. Please make your notes accordingly as we all sit awaiting the quotidian effects of lysergic acid diethylamide 25 . Much better than the grain alcohol which has sharpened your jejune “wit”

      • gemma liar

        hey gerbil droppings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, as bush was “credited” with 9/11 and Obama was “credited” with our triple A rating dropping to AA,,,,,,,if it happens on a presidents watch its his “credit”. So your nugatory argument is in spite of OBAMAS best best best intent our stock market DOUBLED and huge company profits skyrocketed to all time highs??? YOU ARE A REGRESSIVE!!! attention: pleeeeeeeez give a BIG communist Ghana /socialist/Kenyan/ martian hand to MR IMPECCABLE logic himself: srncoic!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!

      • fdsa

        Private sector jobs are just money from the customer’s pocket into another person’s pocket. That is no more or less recycling money than with government jobs.

    • tigerlily78

      You have some stats to back that up? Because from the reports I have seen, government employment is actually down under Obama from where it was during the GW Bush years… down by about 700,000 jobs the last I read.

      • gemma liar

        so is spending,,,, so is unemployment,,,,,and none of those pesky wars!! hey!!! who the hell am I to bring up those damned critters called …..’facts’??

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Obama brought in RECORD taxes and yet his debt has grown by $5 TRILLION dollars.

      • gemma liar

        and per capita it is slowing dramatically,,,,,,, look at the ONLY place it has risen: on our VETERANS,,,( as NOT EVER seen on FOX “news”),,,,funny how u clownd never mention how SAINT REAGAN quadrupled our debt,,,,,,funny aint it>>??

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        1/3 of the entire national debt occured in the last 5 years….and your trying to raise the debt limit again….so you can go further in debt…..LOL Some people are just too stupid to ever learn.

      • gemma liar

        so,,,,,, knowing raising the debt limit is PAYING FOR BILLS ALREADY INCURRED,,,,,,,and all the rightwing regressives always always voted for raising it in reagans/ both bush presidencies,Im still awaiting your “logic” for NOT raising it now??

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Your’re justification is were already in debt more than we have ever been in the entire history of America so why not go for broke? Why don’t you pay some of you’re bills instead of ramping up more? You’re not paying for anything if you have to pay on credit.

      • gemma liar

        hey schmuck,,,,,Im totally debt free- all 3 of my cars are paid for and I hope that within 9 months I can—-FOR CASH– buy a new 2013 (or 2014) Shelby supersnake mustang ( 862 HP) to sit alongside my schoolbus yellow 1972 583 HP MACH 1 mustang and my caddy,,,,,I remain conservative financially but always LIBERAL socially which is anathemal to regressive crybabies on the right. Wanna try 2 tell me about My credit problem again? self employed ( since 1989) chef who ONLY contracts kitchens in the south florida adult strip clubs. And U might wonder why I have an attitude similar to a PRICK??? I wont tell U what I look like but I will tell U I lost count of how many large breasted women I have entered with THEIR consent ( they must be democrats,,,EH?) U barked totally up the WRONG tree in attempting to revile me and my lifestyle. Go to church; tithe to those TAX FREE houses of superstition and tell me how your “after life” salvation tastes knowing I have mine here and now

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        If any of that were true you wouldn’t be on a website that pushes communism.

      • gemma liar

        im not on the site except when it placed articles on my facebook page. U doubt me? H,,,,,…. then again: U wombats DOUBTED Obama was born on earth

      • gemma liar

        also- if U doubt what I have imparted to you about myself why not find me on facebook? My nname is Victor wiley,,,I have a photo of my pet argentine TEGU eating another lizard ( a common south florida denizen called a Knight anole). take a peek at me and my autos,,,,as well as my ladyfriends and my CURRNT girlfriend: 5’6 136 natural DD breast and neither of us drink or smoke or take drugs. But then again,,,,im probably lying about that tooooooooooooooooooo

      • melloe

        Another lie. A good part of the 5 trillion is from two wars on the credit card that Bush did not put on the budget, but Obama did. As an example, Bush’s last budget has deficit of 1,4 Trillion with the appropiate part of the War debt plus the interest on the almost 11Trillion Obnama inherited

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Are you aware it’s 2013 and America has a record debt…….and the dedt ceiling will have to increased next week. That will only buy America less than 2 months…..because interest is due again in November…..than you have to go furthur in debt or default? NOT one dollar have been removed from the debt in the last 5 years and it keeps getting bigger…..crying about the past does not change the position you’re in NOW.

      • melloe

        Another lie. Actually taxes on the average person are a t an all time low DID you get that LOW. Taxes on the rich are back about where they were before Clinton. Actual taxes on the rich average about 15%.. an all time LOW. You need to do some different research

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Are you aware that 2012 was a record tax year? Yes, Obama collected a record amout of taxes…..even higher than under Bush……yet t he debt has increased almost $6 TRILLION in the last 5 years. Are you also aware that Taxes in America are higher than many parts of the world….and you are losing jobs to other countries at a record pace because of the over taxation and over regulation. The first thing that marxist cry is that greedy employers move to China……but you over look that Canada right next door is taking your jobs by the thousands because of the lower corporate taxes. The wages are the same.

    • gemma liar

      all done whilst dragging the anchor of the GOP TRYINg to make dems look bad so they can WIN white house,,,,, lets all hear it for the slowly atrophying GOP!!! bring back those great policies!

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Yeah, those millions lost jobs because of Bush’s policies. And we have low paying jobs because corporations started sending good jobs to Mexico and China 20 some years ago. I don’t see either YOU or the Republicans with any viable alternatives. Put up or shut up.

  • mperhaps

    Really? So just say yes to every single liberal program that comes down the pike? I’d be willing to try it. Its gotta be better than what we have. And the 2 or 3 problems that are always created with EVERY liberal program, we’ll just solve those with more liberal programs yes? All righty then. One thing that’ll be guaranteed to come out of it is job security for liberal politicians. Ya boy, you won’t see those lovers of bureaucracy in the unemployment line.

    • tigerlily78

      Did you know that Conservative voting states tend to get more Federal money back than they pay in via taxes? If Conservative policies are so great, then why are the places with the strongest, most enduring Republicans control predominantly impoverished and in need of subsidization by more moderate and liberal places? *shrug*

      As far as I can tell the real goal of these neo-con economic policies is to re-establish serfdom.

      • SRNCOIC

        Not one conservative in Detroit, now bankrupt and the city looks like a third-world country.

        California—a very liberal state that has two major cities declare bankruptcy and dozens of counties who have unfunded liabilities that are forcing them to cut pensions. That’s the problem with socialism, eventually you run out of other people’s money. ~~ Margaret Thatcher

        Incidentally, can you explain why conservative voting state get more federal money than they pay in? Could it be that the vast majority of those states have huge military installations that receive large amount of federal money?

      • tigerlily78

        Michigan lost 48% of all its manufacturing jobs from 2000-2010. What does one suppose would happen if a city with a predominantly manufacturing based economy lost half of it’s middle class jobs in a decade? In response the population in many of the urban areas like Detroit fell by upwards of 25%… It’s pretty much simple math.

        Smaller tax population, and more of the remaining people earning less money. The precipitous drop in revenue caused a downward spiral in spending for things like infrastructure, education, and public transportation… which furthers community decay, causes home and land prices to drop, which further erodes the tax base.

        The jobs leaving town for Mexico and Asia are the primary source of the woes of Detroit and other former Manufacturing Centers. I suppose you can argue why the jobs left… were the Union wages really so expensive that these companies couldn’t stay afloat? If we had imposed a tariff on car imports, instead of signing Free Trade agreements I think Michigan would have faired much better than it has. Ultimately exporting those jobs was about maximizing profits.

        One of my parents worked in manufacturing for 15 years, and had even continued their education to work their way up the ladder within the company. Said company got a lucrative government contract in 2007 (it was renewed/extended in 2011), had continually solid profits year after year, was in no financial difficulty, yet in 2008 decided to relocate about 80% of it’s manufacturing to Mexico. This was not a business decision that originated from necessity, but rather because someone in the higher echelon determined they personally could get more compensation if they cast off generations of skilled employees for cheap labor.

        I’d suspect the situation in these towns in California may be similar to Detroit, perhaps even more exacerbated because of the severe real estate inflation in California before the bubble burst. If you have thousands of homes in Foreclosure it works quite a number on your tax base, particularly if the previous tax digest was based on a 2 bedroom rambler with one bathroom being valued at $400,000.

      • SRNCOIC

        You’re right. Business is about maximizing profits. Unions made people lazy, overpaid and unproductive. And ungrateful.

        You people dug your own grave.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Over regulation, over taxation…..also played a big role. The Detroit auto jobs are now mostly in Canada…the wages stayed the same….and Canadians are glad to have the good paying jobs. Canada has a much lower corporate tax rate….less regulation….and no inheritance tax. Many wealthy have moved from America especially as they get older……this is how liberalism eventually destroys all countries……just look at Europe.

      • tigerlily78

        The Corporate tax rate, as well as the upper marginal tax rates AND the capital gains tax are at a record low rate. By the time you figure in all the loopholes and tax credits and write offs, the US corporate tax rate ends up averaging about 12%… that is lower than most other developed nations.

        If anything we should lower the corporate rate and remove all the tax credits, loopholes, and other special tax giveaways that benefit special industry interests… that would put more small businesses on an equal playing field. However, this is not a solution Republicans have ever supported unless the net revenue from such a change was also much lower than our current already rock bottom rates.

        There are plenty of charts and graphs of the historical corporate tax rate, marginal tax rates, rates compared to other countries,.etc that completely debunk the argument that overtaxation is really a legitimate reason for these companies to be offshoring jobs and profits. It’s short sighted greed, pure and simple. It’s companies operating without any historical context to appreciate that they are already getting a sweet deal compared to a century of businesses who operated before them.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        You keep saying rock bottom rates……but the tax rates for business in America are HIGHER than many parts of the world. Including mine…that’s why we have so many new jobs and they all come from the states…..Business escaping the over taxation, over regulation of the US. It’s not the repubicans but rather the Democrats who refuse to remove loopholes, subsidies, and tax perks……businesses like the wind and solar business would NOT EVEN exist…..if it couldn’t live on tax handouts. Most of the Projects of democrates like survive this way….changing the tax code would remove all such industries. Keep in mind the things Democrates like most can not stand on their own feet.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        Another LIE……America has some of the highest business taxes in the world. Taxes combined with over regulation has caused many business to leave. Many more will be leaving in the future. It might be bad for the US….but it’s good for the rest of the world. Countries all over the world have a new middle class….thanks to the Americans driving jobs and tax revenues away…..good work fools….Many of us are better off because of the stupidity of American liberals.

      • melloe

        There is not use arguing with the guy from idiocy, he has the right wing lies down pat. Straight from Fox, and right wing global network. He is right about one thing though, a lot of countries have benefited from the corporate greed and the rights refusal to allow cutting some of those loopholes.

      • tigerlily78

        Thats interesting rhetoric not born out by the facts. Do yourself a favor and Google: “America Workers Are More Productive, But Their Wages Are Flat”

      • fdsa

        We had a very strong middle class at the height of union strength. With the collapse of unions, we are now seeing full-time jobs becoming part-time along with wages staying flat while worker productivity is at an all time high.

      • SRNCOIC

        And the blame lays squarely at the feet of the Democrat Party.

      • melloe

        What is wrong with the tea baggers, there for their Democrat Party?. interesting unproductive???

        In any case, the blame lays with corporate greed. They want the big population that used to have money to spend, but don’t want to leave their jobs there. Greed
        It is slowly biting them in the arse as their percentage of profit in the US market is starting to fall off. Wonder why?

        Corporations have no ethics, no morals, no conscience, and no country.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        The De-toilet auto jobs went to CANADA….not mexico or China. Yes most of the jobs are only a few hundred miles from where they used to be, This is what over regulation has done to American business……Canada is glad to have all the good jobs and new tax revenue.

      • fdsa

        Canada’s business environment is more regulated than the US’s. Also, Canada has a higher percentage its workers belonging to a union than in the US.

      • Guy_in_Kingston

        15 years ago that would have been true…..but while Canada has rolled back it regulation……the US has only increased theirs. Second you act as though Unions are a good thing…..there not. Most people OUTSIDE of government are not unionized…..and would not want to be. Most people want freedom and do not want to be part of a communist union collective where you are forced to give up your voice and rights to a collective to decide FOR YOU…..regardless of what you think. The people who think good things about unions are usually people that have never had to be part of one…..it’s ignorance that makes them think unions are good. Canada also has a much lower corporate tax rate…and no inheritance tax. America is sending it’s jobs by the thousands.

      • melloe

        One more piece of partial truth or mis formation. When Reagan signed the “pay to move ” legislation.. that year, Ford ( and Zenith of Electronic ) that I know of moved to MEXICO, and few year later, Chrysler moved a lot of their body work to Canada to consolidate their efforts. In that case it had nothing to do with “regulations .. the big right wing lie “. By the end of the 80’s, the mirgration for greed had begun. Mostly to Mexico and China. Of course those plants built in Foreign countries to build auto or auto parts were just for local consumption GREED

      • gemma liar

        hmmmmm,,,, that’s would (??) partially explain the phenomena of a state such as NJ which pays TONS more “in” and yet when it got crushed by that hurricane regressive tea party repubs voted NO for funds for disaster relief…..Hmmmmmm,,,, mustve missed that little nugget

      • melloe

        Detroit was run into the ground by Republican State policies, and job exporters like Mitt. Send all the jobs to China and get paid to do it, bound to end up hurting the average Joe. BTW, that pay to move off shore legislation from the Reagan admin is still on the books… But now in the form of tax exemptions that keep giving ( to the corporate )

        California is doing great now that they got rid of a Republican Governor. Took some fancy accounting, but they declared a 24 billion surplus this last year.

        So, those Military installations need more social program money? I think not. Good try though.

    • gemma liar

      nor the thousands of brave men and women killed in IRAQ for haliburtons glory and momney

  • Guy_in_Kingston

    Typical they left out that 7 out of 10 new jobs was part-time. They also leave out that the job increases don’t even keep up with population growth….and immigration…..otherwise there is fewer jobs now.

    • fdsa

      “‘Typical they left out that 7 out of 10 new jobs was part-time.'”

      That’s the price we pay when our unions lose power.

  • Wild_Bird

    The House GOP has passed dozens of bills that are stalled in the Senate. Harry Reid’s pocket veto of these bills means they never even get a vote in the Senate.

    • fdsa

      The only things that were in those “jobs bills” were gutting clean air and water standards for the energy industry, and slash taxes even more for corporate bizzilionaires. Slapping a “jobs bill” label to an attempt to further GOP special interests is just cheap and gimmicky.

      • Wild_Bird

        Thank you for your comment.
        You are totally wrong, however.
        1) Leaving more money in the pockets of individuals and businesses instead of recycling it through trickle down government is a better way to foster economic growth, prosperity and jobs.
        2) easing up on the regulatory straightjacket that is shackling our economy with red tape will give businesses some breathing room to expand and create jobs.
        3) the war on fossil fuels is hurting our economy and the poor bear the brunt of these misguided policies.
        Bad regulatory, fiscal and monetary policy are hurting ordinary people who can’t find work, not corporate “bizillionaires.”

  • James

    GOP handed over the U.S. Military to the NEOCONS and the Corporations if they are able to get back in they will finish the job and install a Dictator just like they have in so many other countries once they crashed the middle class with sanctions.