So I Just Had a Shocking and Somewhat Terrifying Face to Face Discussion with a Creationist…

creationistsWhile I’ve had many online debates with creationists, before yesterday I’ve never really had a face to face encounter that resulted in much of anything.  I suppose that’s a good thing, as these people are willfully ignorant and have no desire to change how they look at anything when it comes to science.  So as I engaged with this person, I didn’t let them know what my political affiliation was nor did I initially express my views on any particular issue.

I simply sat back and listened to them tell me what they thought on a various list of different issues and events.  I was nothing more than a spectator to their presentation of what they believed.  And, to my credit, I behaved graciously – until they started going off on creationism and their beliefs.

While I stomached it for a little while, it was the moment when they said, “Science doesn’t prove anything, it’s just a bunch of theories” that I ceased being able to hold back what I felt like saying.

This person insisted that evolution, climate change and the age of our planet are not “widely accepted scientific facts.”  They claimed that they’re just theories that corporate backed scientists perpetuate on people to make money.  They believed not that dinosaurs and humans co-existed, but that fossils were put here by God to test our faith.  No, seriously, that’s what they said.

When I pointed out that to believe in the story of Adam and Eve means that you’d have to believe that incest was acceptable, they literally didn’t seem to understand that Adam and Eve’s children would have had to have sex with one another to propagate our species.

The discussion, for the most part, was what you’d expect from your average creationist.  Typical “science doesn’t prove anything” nonsense showcasing the fact they really just don’t understand science.  When talking to these people it becomes pretty clear why Republicans aren’t big on improving education and often attack “liberally biased” college degrees.  Because the enemy to this creationist delusion is education.

But what stuck out the most during this whole discussion was the overwhelming feeling I felt that this person had no desire to learn about anything.  Their mind was made up, based on absolutely zero evidence outside of “what the Bible says.”  It only reenforced my belief that creationists are more of a cult than any kind of religious organization.

It’s like when Bill Nye asked Ken Ham what evidence could possibly change his mind, and Ham essentially said ‘nothing.’  That’s the exact feeling I got from this person.  That no matter what was said, proven or shown to this individual – nothing was going to change their mind.

That’s a terrifying thought, isn’t it?  Millions of people, so mentally delusional that they literally will ignore any reality or facts that might contradict what they want to believe.  The evidence proving why dinosaur fossils are as old as they are isn’t “evidence” because they don’t want to believe that they’re millions of years old.  So no matter how in depth someone went with one of these people into explaining why a fossil is 65 million years old – it wouldn’t matter because that’s not what they want to believe.

Then it hit me, that’s how these people are with reality in general.  It’s how millions of poor and middle class Americans vote for a party that supports policies that only benefit the rich, because that’s what they want to believe.  It’s how they call themselves the party of “fiscal responsibility” (even though a president from their party hasn’t balanced the budget since the 50’s) because they want to believe that they’re the party for fiscal responsibility.

For these people, reality doesn’t matter.  In their minds what they want to be real is what’s real to them.  That’s the only thing that matters.  Just as these people can sit there with a straight face and say that all this scientific evidence proving their creationist beliefs wrong isn’t valid, it’s the same mindset these people have when they see nearly 40 years of trickle-down economics favor only the rich yet still they maintain that it’s a viable economic model that will benefit the other 98% of us – eventually.

It’s mental derangement, pure and simple.

Tens of millions of people, walking around among us, living in a state of mind where no amount of reality or facts will ever have any bearing on what they want to believe.

And I don’t know about you, but it terrifies me that as time goes on these people are desperately trying to gain more and more influence over our government, our education systems and our society as a whole.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.

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  • Sandy Greer

    Well, some people know WHAT they know – and that’s all they WANT to know. And that’s the Truth.

    Gotta admit to the tiniest twinge of guilt, tho:

    I’ve been in convo with Conspiracy Theorists (various kinds) I can only go so far, and then I just close my mind to it. I can’t keep beating my head against (what I see as) the brick wall of immovable implacability. I just don’t have the patience.

    So, IOW, I know what I know – and that’s all I want to know. 😉

  • Ive spent all weekend arguing on facebook with these people about Cliven Bundy, who they see as a patriot! For them, faith is only made stronger by denial of facts, the more extreme their efforts to deny the most obvious facts, the sweeter their reward ff “faith” seems to them.

    • robingee

      It’s so bizarre! He doesn’t acknowledge the government or pay his fair share and he steals land for grazing (freeloader!) and he’s a PATRIOT! Git yer guns! Don’t these jerkwads preach “personal responsibility” 24/7? Where’s Bundy’s responsibility??

      • langranny

        I bet he gets Social Security and has Medicare too…

  • Jane

    “Ignorance is bliss.” What a time saver!

  • randrews4

    “My mind was made up. I was not confused by these new facts.” — Earl Landgrebe, R-IN 1974.

  • Daniel Moore

    You realize this is exactly why there are Islamic extremists. Religion trumps reality. And THAT scares me.

    • Lonnie Luchnick

      And Christian extremists. And Jewsih extremeists. And so on and so on!

      • Eoin Maloney

        Actually, I have never heard of modern Jewish extremists. Ultra-Orthodox Jews, yes, but I have never heard of people committing acts of terror or violence in the name of the Hebrew God. Not saying it’s impossible, but I get the sense they’re just too polite overall. To be fair, my opinions may be biased by all the extraordinarily polite Jews I’ve encountered.

      • Stephen Polasky

        Jewish settlers.

      • Rob Mark

        You have never driven through crown heights on a saturday and seen the hasedics throw rocks at your car. Nor seen them in Israel demand that they be paid to do nothing because according to their version of the torah the community has to support anybody that studies torah. There are probably idiotic budhist zealots out there somewhere killing anybody that does not believe in the sanctity of life. Religion is a plague when it takes over your life. It is no worse than any other addiction except that the addicts thinks the solution is for everybody to be addicted.

      • Rizzle01

        Read the old testament.

  • robingee

    But it must be kind of nice to just be willfully ignorant… don’t worry about climate change, or the economy, or anything… God will take care of it all. Ahhh, what a relief. Like slowly freezing to death in the snow. Taking the easy way out instead of using your brain. It seems like laziness to me.

    • kmeghan

      Yep. And, if I remember my Bible correctly, God gave humans free will, so that we are free to ask questions and learn. But, I grew up in a pretty liberal household, and am now an atheist, so what do I know 🙂

  • kmeghan

    Ugh. It’s Easter and thankfully, I don’t have to spend it with my religious family. I am an atheist, but I’ve always said that if proof, concrete proof could be given that there is in fact a god, I would change my mind. But all the ‘miracles’ people give me to show the existence of god can be proven by actual science. Religious people can be very shallow minded, and I believe that children are basically brainwashed and it takes a lot to change that.

  • John Clark

    Its not only the creationists I worry about, its everyone with such a certainty of ideas that they cannot see reality. I see left, right, and center certainty at work in our discourse. But it can’t be a discourse if everyone has fixed, unmovable ideas, can it? We all have too much black/white blue/red thinking these days. And there is a lack of empathy in our failing to listen to others.

  • I’mRightYerWrong

    If you actually knew your bible you would know that it says Cain married someone from the land of Nod. There was no incest in the garden of Eden fable. It really hurts Atheism when you can’t even correctly cite that which you’re trying to show as immoral and illogical.

    • dubious

      And where did that person come from?

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        I don’t know. The bible doesn’t say. That should have been the argument made instead of saying that there was incest in Eden. Point out the logical hole of there being a story about how god created man and woman yet there’s nothing about the other people that were created so how can you believe this story to be true. Not knowing what you’re arguing against is just as bad as believing something without understanding why you believe it.

      • Phil Keast

        God created Adam and Eve. If you argue that their children married the people of the land of Nod, then who created them? You are right, it is such an obvious logical hole, that the fact that Creationists will not even acknowledge it, let alone address it, is yet more evidence of their complete irrationality. By invoking the land of Nod, all you are doing is further undermining the Creationist’s position, but they and you can’t seem to see it that way. [Edit] I notice below that you say you are an Atheist. So why are you defending these idiots? Since Eve was created from Adam’s rib (lets overlook the fact that men and women have the same number of ribs, yet another inconsistency), then Adam and Eve were either clones or twins, whichever way you cut it that is either sex with your sister or with yourself.

        Anti-Creationists (i.e. rational people who may or may not be Atheists, and include among their number respected biblical scholars who are also Christians) merely point out that those who demand a literal interpretation of the bible are irrational and incoherent. Many of us do know the texts used by those who demand a literal interpretation of the Bible, we just don’t feel the need to keep digging through layer after layer of irrationality to find the next layer. Upon recognizing a mind that cannot be changed no matter what evidence or argument they are presented with, just point to the first irrational “fact”, then walk away knowing that further discussion will achieve nothing more than raising your level of frustration, and blood pressure.

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        I’m not defending the creationists at all. I’m pointing out that when you make a claim that’s verifiably wrong the creationist will absolutely never even consider what you’re saying is accurate. If there’s even the slightest possibility that you can get through to these morons then you have to make sure that what you say can be backed up. If the person the author was talking to had actually read the bible they would have brought up the point I did and never would consider anything the author said against the bible again. Like I said, you’re only hurting Atheism when you make false claims because it seems like you don’t know what you’re talking about.

      • Phil Keast

        Atheism cannot be hurt by someone disagreeing with it. Unless you feel the need to justify your position whenever someone says “But…..”

        Refusal to engage in a pointless debate does not equate to ignorance, its merely a case of knowing when to walk away. Clearly you feel that the simple “Adam screwed his sister” is inadequate. Fine, get into debates about Nod (and the implication that either God was not the only God, or that God created other races that he didn’t like as much as his two favorites in the Garden of Eden (which invalidates the whole range of Christian principles and commandments)). Or original Sin. Or and whether the fact that cosmologists believe that energy existed before space and time (in as much as “before” means anything in that context) rendering the order in which God created the universe scientifically incoherent (which is a rational inconsistency that occurs in verses of Creation before those referring to Adam and Eve). Personally, I’ll just leave you and you creationist debating partner to annoy and frustrate each other while I go get a decent cup of coffee.

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        Where did I ever say that Atheisim can be hurt by someone disagreeing with it? What I’m saying is that if you discount christianity in such a way that is obviously ignorant of christian scripture then you’re no better than a christian who says “if man evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” If the person the author had an argument with had actually read their bible, I know, a stretch when it comes to christians, they would have countered with the same argument and the author would have been standing there going “uh duhhhhhh”. That’s not a good portrayal of Atheism. An argument can only be won when you have clear evidence that supports your claim, whether the opposition accepts it or not. You go drink your coffee. I’m going to keep fighting the good fight because educating the brainwashed, indoctrinated from childhood masses actually means that I might get through to some of these people and maybe will get them to start questioning why they believe what they believe. If that means that I have to educate fellow Atheists who discount religion without actually knowing why they do it themselves then that’s what I have to do..

      • Phil Keast

        It’s a fight you can’t win, not on their terms, and not the way you wish to argue it. But if you feel that it’s worth the attempt, do it cleverly, and gently.

        Yes, study the bible, and use it like a scalpel, not a blunt instrument. Don’t surrender before you’ve begun. Start simple “Where did people come from?” Let them answer. “So, did Adam and Eve have children?” Let them answer. “Who did Adam and Eve’s children marry?” Let them answer. “So, where did these other people come from?” Let them answer. Continue in that manner until they run out of Biblical references, and when they inevitably drift away from the text of the Bible, bring them back to it.

        Don’t start at the people of Nod, don’t begin by validating their initial position, let the Creationist take you there. Let them think they are educating you. Because if they believe you are genuine, they will wind themselves up on such web of inconsistency and contradiction, where what they were taught cannot be supported by Biblical text, that they must either surrender, or retreat to the default “‘Cos my pastor told me so!”

        Besides, I have no interest in how good or bad Atheism is portrayed, that’s not part of the debate. Debunking Creation-Science is a worthy goal in itself, why bring Atheism into the discussion? The moment you tell a Creationist that you are an Atheist, you’ve lost, game over.

      • poppaDavid

        For fun ask them if they have studied biology.

        Was Adam was created as a modern man?

        Was Eve created from Adam’s bone?

        Do humans breed true, or evolve?

        If Eve got Adam’s DNA, how come we have genetic diversity today?

        Don’t worry about Cain, Noah and his family came from Seth and everyone else drowned.

      • Jeffery Agnew

        The whole who has more ribs thing is a great jumping point for the difference between lamarckian and darwinian theories of evolution. Of course you could go the why are muslims males still born with foreskins route too.

    • gjbivin

      And by the way, it’s “cite”.

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        Thank you. I corrected it.

      • modera8

        No, you didn’t. It still says “site”. The name you chose is rather ironic, considering you can’t spell simple words. If Adam was created and then Eve was created from his body (I forget which part), and they produced the first baby (isn’t that the story?), that is in fact incest, and the whole bad thing about incest (besides being just gross) is that whole “genetic mutation” thing. Perhaps a biology text and dictionary would be helpful for you. Put the bible down and go to elementary school. Ignorance is bliss, I guess, because you seem awfully committed to yours.

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        Yeah, because I’m the only one that autocorrect ever affects. Ok, troll, let’s talk about your argument.
        Taken right from the article, “they literally didn’t seem to understand that Adam and Eve’s children would have had to have sex with one another to propagate our species.” How do you possibly tie that into ” If Adam was created and then Eve was created from his body (I forget which part), and they produced the first baby (isn’t that the story?), that is in fact incest,” By your own admission you don’t even know what body part was used so how can your argument possibly be considered to be educated? Secondly, that’s not incest, it’s more closely related to cloning. Since you’re obviously too fucking stupid to look up incest in the dictionary I did it for you. “sex between close relatives: sexual activity between two people who are considered, for moral or genetic reasons, too closely related to have such a relationship.” Thirdly, I’m an Atheist. Obviously you couldn’t figure that out from my saying “the garden of Eden fable” so I guess have to point that out to you. But when I make an argument, I know what I’m arguing against. Maybe you should actually pick up a bible and see why it doesn’t make sense so you can actually formulate an educated argument instead of just being an ignorant grammar nazi.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        If God created Adam and Eve as the first and only people, and they produced children, where did everyone else come from? It still goes back to incest if you believe in literally interpreting the Bible.

        And our priest sincerely believes men have one less rib. I “rib” you not.

    • Julie Echo Tyler

      Read your bible; Cain and Abel were not the only children of Adam and Eve. Who did Seth, or any of the many other mentioned, but unnamed, Sons and Daughters of Adam and Eve marry? No incest? No brainer!

      Cain is the only one that went to Nod and got a wife, everybody else must have married a sibling.

      • I’mRightYerWrong

        So you have no basis in your argument except the fallacy of assumption. The idiot christian can counter that argument with the same fallacy by saying that since it doesn’t say they didn’t find spouses elsewhere they could have just as easily done the same thing as Cain. How is that supposed to convince someone that christian creationism is a myth when all you do is argue over things that you can’t validate? If you want to talk about incest in the bible to populate the world you need to talk about Noah and his daugthers raping him. THAT’S incest and it’s in the bible, which makes that claim verifiable. When you say there’s incest with Adam and Eve any of the few christians who have actually read the fucking story will tell you straight out that you’re wrong and then they will never even entertain the thought that anything you say about the bible could possibly be right.

      • FeRD

        [Mehh… I posted this last night but included a weblink, and it’s languished in approval hell for 11 hours now. So, I’ll just repost without the link, and hopefully it won’t end up being a double-post. Maybe I can delete the other attempt.]

        (Surprisingly enough…)
        Your logical fallacy is: No True Scotsman

        Though, in an interesting twist, you’ve constructed a NTS strawman with which to assault someone else’s argument, rather than to deflect criticism of your own. A+ for creativity, though that doesn’t make the logic any less invalid.

        Your repeated assertions throughout this thread are reminiscent of every insufferable fanboy who popular culture has ever lured out of the dank confines of his parents’ basement and into the dank confines of a hotel or convention center basement.

        “Any true fan will know that this position fails to take into account what’s said in the third panel of page 17, issue #174 of the series (interpreted with respect to the events that were foreshadowed by the ancillary series’ crossover event, because the current series author wrote that storyline as well), because that dialogue clearly contradicts everything being claimed. For someone to miss a detail that so obviously counters their position exposes them as nothing more than a laughably ignorant and misinformed poser who knows nothing about the hero’s history or motivations, which is why no true fan would be interested in listening to further ignorant ramblings on the subject.”

        The only one I see who’s dismissing other people as ignorant or refusing to entertain their ideas is you, although I do applaud how deftly you’ve projected your narrow-minded stubbornness onto that very effective Christian-debater bogeyman you’re sockpuppeting. The fact that their imagined positions decisively validate your argument is quite compelling, and I’m sure hardly anyone could see your lips moving.

  • Dale Rogers

    When a young person learns that mythical creatures like
    Santa and the Tooth Fairy aren’t real they will ask “Well then what about
    God?”

    If convinced at that time that the God symbol is about
    “a” being, even a “supreme” one, then that young person
    will face both an intellectual and a spiritual crises. An intellectual crises
    because he will have to believe in scientific impossibilities like an invisible
    “being”. A Spiritual crises because the sacred nature of being will
    be reduced to the whims of a capricious God thing.

    • davybaby

      I guess I should confess outright that I am a God believer. I like some of your arguments but looking from the other-side I find that how you describe the one-eyed view of Christians can also be used to describe evolutionists. I reckon that it takes faith to believe as you do also but at the end of the day I am very glad I have the faith system that I have.
      If I’m wrong I have last nothing and if I am right I have gained everything. A simple argument I know but, hey. I’m a New Zealander living in Australia so what chance have I got when it comes to great intellectual discussions. I have tried to get the spelling correct but please refer to the sentence above 🙂

      • Phil Keast

        I respect those with genuine faith, but faith does not require irrationally believing that everything in the Bible is the literal truth. Both my wife and my mother have a deep, profound faith, and they are both, when we discuss it, appalled and amazed that someone could possibly hold the position Creationists do.

        As for faith in science, on a purely dictionary level, perhaps. I have faith that when the preponderance of evidence, which supports an explanation that has no logical fallacies or contradictions, indicates that a particular process occurs, then that process is real. Note that for Creationists, evidence, logical fallacies, and contradictions are irreverent, because they have faith in the Good Book. There is a not so subtle, and very real, difference between faith in science and the blind faith of creationists. I would hope that your faith is not blind.

      • davybaby

        Thanks Phil for your measured and reasoned argument. Some Christians, believing that God wrote the Bible, will not work outside its pages. I believe in God because that Bible written by over 40 writers, I believe inspired, but not controlled by God, over a period of over 2000 years has the same thread running through it. No-one can possibly say that those first two chapters of the Bible are a complete explanation of what God created and some of my friends do take the position that this is all that is necessary. Creationist do tend to change their stance to combat arguments from the other side which is understandable and unfortunately it can become a bit of a bun fight.

        (You better not disturb my faith or I’ll stand in the corner and sulk and just call you names because it seems your logic may overcome my faith) This said tongue in cheek but I do feel that a lot of Christians have to believe in a certain way because they perceive that is how Christians should act. Sometimes we just stop using our brains.
        What do you believe? Oh I believe what my church believes. So what does your church believe. Oh my church believes what I believe. So don’t start me on narrow-minded, well intentioned people who have all the answers. This whole paragraph should have this behind every sentence and most probably every word. 🙂

        However to keep the discussion flowing I have to say I still believe in a literal 6 day creation and that an all knowing powerful creator spoke and it was done.
        Then He rested, maybe as an example to me but I really cannot not tell you why such a powerful being had to rest.

      • Phil Keast

        I was raised as an Anglican (Episcopalian in the USA), in particular as a High Anglican, which has occasionally been accused of being more Catholic than Catholics, with all the pageantry and saints of the Catholic Church, but recognizing that ones relationship with God is deeply personal, and does not require the intercession of priests and saints. After all, an omniscient loving God is no more likely to listen to a prayer delivered second hand from a Saint than a prayer directly from one of his children. Whilst the faith may have arisen from the personal desires of a serial monogomist (the monogamy bit is debateable) who desired a divorce the Catholic Church denied, it has become far more. There are many more subtleties, (married priests, gay priests, women as priests, I could go on), but they are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion, since while I was raised in that faith, I am not exactly what you would call a practicing Christian. Despite my family tree having a rather extensive list of Anglican Priests and Bishops in it, my personal faith and belief system has become tainted by the views of non-Christian faiths, and by study of philosophy and science. Although some of that early teaching has become imbedded in my value system (love thy neighbor, give to the poor and the sick, do unto others, etc.).

        With respect to the Bible, however, I’d point out that the Old Testament is much much older than 2000 years. The faiths of the Book, as they are sometimes called, being Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, differ in their interpretation of what comes after the Old Testament, but they come from the same origins. It’s one of the reasons I find the hostility between fundamentalist Christians and Muslims sad, rather than any other description. Both moderate Judaism and moderate Islam recognize Jesus as a prophet, they just disagree on the whole “son of god” bit.

        As for the text of the Bible itself, I treat all of it as a collection of teaching parables, stories to inspire, (with a side order of rules for how to survive in an environment that is both ecologically and socially hostile, but which don’t apply to the modern world). It is much like the zen koans, intended to lead someone to enlightenment without a step by step manual of how to get there.

        Finally, since this is getting a little long, I do have some issues with organized religion of any form (Christian, Bhuddism, Hindu, and the rest), since they seem to become fossilized and more of a collection of “Thou shall” than a guide to how to live an ethical, fulfilling life.

      • davybaby

        The other very small point I would like to add is that there have been volumes written to prove that two chapters of the bible have it wrong. The Bible is not a complete explanation of why or how it was done just a summary that it was done. I just love the simplicity of the whole thing. Confuse me with big words and argue about spelling mistakes but the fact remains for me that God is trying to get through to us that He (whatever the gender you like to use) is trying to point out that He loves us and has given us stories that show how He has loved us and is trying to get this point across.

  • Krist Martin

    Welcome to the party of no duh. This is pretty much the conclusion every intelligent person has come to when it comes to creationists and the GOP and their followers for years now.

  • Thyrymn

    I think you are making up your story. Please name names so we can fact check.m anyone can make up a story about a stupid person.

    • FeRD

      Please, tell me how you would fact-check a private, one-on-one conversation with an individual, one whose views are (presumably) not laid out in any book, article, blog post, or other attributable work that would make them a matter of record and therefore verifiable.

      I’m not saying that makes the story true, but I’m confused how you imagine you’d go about validating such a story. Not to mention, it would be the height of rudeness and impropriety to engage in a closed-doors, one-on-one discussion with someone, only to then identify them by name when giving a(n inherently) biased, one-sided public accounting of the conversation.

      • Thyrymn

        I made the comment somewhat tongue in cheek. One could always call them.

        But I’d think that whoever this poor person is, they’d want to know who is writing about their conversations so they don’t make the same mistake talking with Allen.

        I suspect the whole story is made up anyway to get hit hits and views from progressive people.

  • Ian

    I love the fact that no evidence could ever convince them that evolution is a fact.I often wonder if their God came down to earth and told them that evolution is real would they even believe him? Would he be attacked as a servant of satan sent to test their faith as he couldn’t really be god as he doesn’t share their beliefs?

    • davybaby

      Thanks Ian but He actually did come down and disagreed with the religious leaders and He was attacked as a servant of satan and was killed. in part, for the message He was trying to get across, but I know you already realised that

  • suburbancuurmudgeon

    It is less that they believe the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility and more that the believe the GOP will keep tax dollars from going to “those people.”

  • Preacher son

    The whole premise of religion is that you HAVE TO BELIEVE. If you question your faith, you’re burn in a lake of fire FOREVER. I think that most Christians believe out of fear. Other comments have been covered before I saw this article.

    • davybaby

      Hi Steve
      The unscriptural belief in an everburning hell is a terrible doctrine and is only there as a form of control. We have people who believe in God and That He loves them unconditionally but apparently He wants them to burn for ever in this place called hell and if you are only a little bit bad you can spend some time in a half way house and get your sins burnt out of you. It’s enough to terrify anybody and we wonder why they become one-eyed. No wonder most people can’t believe in a God like that. I know I should not be quoting the Bible here but it says that humanity will take a bit of wood cut in in half, fashion a god out of it, which they worship and they throw the other half onto the fire to keep themselves warm. In another place He says that we make gods out of wood and paint eyes on them that do not see and lips that do not talk and then we become like the god’s we worship.
      It must be interesting living in America where political parties are tied in with religious or faith beliefs.

  • Michael

    Must be the same kind of delusion that allows progressives to vote for corporate tool Obama.

  • Kim

    So a man, ( an atheist) is walking through the woods and in the distance, he see’s a bear, slowing coming toward him, he speeds up his walk,as to gain more distance from the bear and him, the bear, in turn speeds up his pace, to get closer to the man, the man seeing this, begins to run a bit, try to evade this bear, which seems to be getting closer and closer, the bar starts to run toward the man, The man, now running faster and fast to get away from this bear that’s obvious determined to get this man, The Atheist, now running desperately through the woods to get away from this bear, screams out,, God!!! make this bear a Christian. ( wink ), strange what we turn to in a moment of desperation huh.

  • Juliet23

    It’s called Cognitive Dissonance. And it’s something that exists in all people. It’s why the pot calls the kettle black.