Our Pledge of Allegiance and the Myth of “One Nation Under God”

You often hear many on the right claim that our country was founded on Christianity.  They’ll use our Pledge of Allegiance as “proof” that this nation was founded as a Christian nation.  Many of them put bumper stickers on their vehicles that say “One Nation Under GOD!” or emphasize the word “God”  when they recite our nation’s pledge.

It all sounds great, except for the fact that our pledge wasn’t written until until 1892.  Yes, you read that correctly, our Pledge of Allegiance was written a full 116 years after the Revolutionary War and Declaration of Independence.

Not only that, but the phrase “Under God” wasn’t even in the original text of our pledge:

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

And it gets better.  The author of our pledge was Francis Bellamy – a Christian socialist.  He stood for workers rights and believed in an equal distribution of economic resources.  He believed in the nationalization of certain industries, because he feared their manipulation and corruption in the hands of a private sector which would put profits before people.

So a Christian, a minister at that, wrote the pledge – yet didn’t include the word “God” or “Christian” – and  he was a socialist.  I’m sure by now most conservatives reading this will have already decided I’m making all of this up.  But oh, there’s more.

In 1923, more text was added to our pledge:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

So, 31 years after its origination, our pledge still didn’t contain the phrase “under God.”

In fact, it wasn’t until 1954 that the phrase “under God” was actually added to our pledge, in a response to the threat of communism.

“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

So it wasn’t until 62 years after its creation that “under God” was added to our pledge.

I can already hear some now, “But our currency has “In God We Trust” written on it!  It’s our nation’s motto!”

That’s true, it does and it is.  But “In God We Trust” didn’t appear on any currency until 1864.  In fact, the motto “In God We Trust” wasn’t even adopted into this country officially until 1956 and didn’t appear on our paper currency until 1957.  It was only on our coins up until that point.

Then let’s not forget that the only reference to religion in our Bill of Rights is in our First Amendment, which states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

The word Christianity doesn’t appear even once in our Constitution.

So when these people proudly boast about our nation being a “Christian nation” or that we were a nation founded “under God,” remind them of these facts.

Because the more they press the issue, the more they think you’re simply making all of this up, the more they continue to insist this country was founded on Christianity and use our currency or pledge as proof…

The more they display their ignorance of our history and prove that they would rather believe a lie than know the truth.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.


Facebook comments

  • southside mike

    history lesson for the ignorant

    • lindylou

      You can tattoo that on their lover’s butt but they still won’t believe it. They are beyond reason and instruction.

      • Qwertyy650

        Of course not – they can’t see it if it’s on their butt.

      • lindylou

        Maybe not the tattooie.

      • Mike DeLong

        Really, you can’t see a tattoo on your lover’s butt?

      • Branwyn Kimble

        Conservatives prefer missionary, maybe?

      • regressive rightwing trash

        conservatives prefer Viagra as the males get over 45

      • Curious

        And you know this from experience?

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        The religious right only does it missionary, silly 😉

      • regressive rightwing trash

        I was sexually eviscerating a “Christian” woman named Gemma Vozza ( south florida) for a long time,,,, even drilling her after I bri=oke it off with her when she married a CHRISTIAN man who was ( evidently) a dead f*ck,,,,,,,,, and she liked it in all positions. Too bad she ruined her incredible double D’s ( reduction for NO medical concern) BEFORE I knew her: would’ve LOVED to be saved by that !!

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Really? “Eviscerating”? How long did it take to get the blood, guts and feces out of your rug?

      • regressive rightwing trash

        ahhhhh,,,,,, just female juices: im a gentle driller

      • Curious

        Same question for you. You know this from experience? Or are you peeping in religious right bedroom windows? Don’t know how else you would know what they do. Do you know what they say about the word assume?

      • Well, yeah, they believe in Religion in the first place..so, they’re already well beyond reason or sanity.

      • Mikey

        That’s the same elitist attitude I wish we could remove from religion.

      • Sarah G.

        I don’t think that’s fair to say, I have spirituality, I believe in God, I go to church. I’d like to think I’m reasonable, and sanity is a legal construct and I’m not committing crimes. I also think God, or the idea of God, should have nothing to do with our governing in this country, my faith is mine. I don’t push it on others, unlike these people. God has nothing to do with this country, even if God has something to do with people. My God only has anything to do if you want it.

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Sarah, there is a major difference in Spiritual/Faithful, and Religion. One is a personal relationship with God/dess, the One, the All, our Higher Power, etc. The other is blindly following dogma.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        gonna vote 100% with lorrie here

      • GayAtheist64

        Half-correct, Lorrie. Some derive spirituality from religion & some don’t. I’m Atheist but very spiritual, whereas some of the most religious aren’t.

    • Really?

      The problem with the “Progressive” ideology is the societal ‘order’ you are “progressing” to.

      • Ryan

        But no ACTUAL rebuttal, eh? Just your blind belief that the progress we aspire to is wrong. I’m sure there were ignorant conservatives who said the exact thing about freeing slaves, or allowing women to vote, or civil rights. But none of those things hurt this country. The main problems this country faces come from you guys. Incontrovertible fact.

      • Really?

        Read through the entire thread you assuming dumb…

      • Honest Ape

        Actually it was the Conservatives that freed the slaves and voted for those civil rights and it was you progressives that put them in chains and stole those rights. But whatever lie floats your boat Comrad.

      • Sean

        Republicans were the liberal/progressive party at the time of the civil war. This is of course no longer the case. Those considered progressive were, by and large, abolitionists. You need to build a greater understanding of the history conservatism.

      • LOLOL

        You just went full retard, never go full retard..

      • katkat

        do your home work, read, its history dude.

      • John F N Doh

        lol you win the internet!!

      • The Conservatives of today are as far from the people who did that as the vulture is from the dodo bird. Those people are extinct, in other words.

      • katkat

        no, it was republicans that freed the slaves, but they were not conservative back then. They were very progressive. As the years passed, some how it got turned around.

      • pszymeczek

        Thr Republicans in those days was in favor of rights, not the “conservatives.” Many of the conservatives in those times were southern Democrats, who became Republicans when the Democratic Party came to its senses and turned away from the dark side on the issue of civil rights.

      • Bookwench

        Yes, but those Conservatives do not exist any longer within the Republican Part. and the current ones would never support those ideals. What a shame that they’ve so soiled their legacy

      • Andy

        Republicans and Democrats were basically opposites from today back then. Pretty basic knowledge. They were called Republicans, but they were by no means conservative.

      • lynk137

        Parties have flip-flopped. Catch up Ape.

      • Nameless

        He’s trolling right?

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        Another sloaganeering from you? Try some facts,,, but that will prove your “god” nonsense is in the wrong from the start.

    • Jeanie Altman

      … This only goes to Prove Our Country Needs GOD More than it Ever Did in Our Past History .!!! … As we have slipped further from GOD we are Reminded of how much He had to do with the Creating of Our Great Nation .!!! … So, “In GOD We Trust” and “One Nation Under GOD” sure does Mean More Today than ever, if only to Remind Our Citizens of His Love for Our People .!!! … His Protection is with Our Country as long as we don’t Turn Away From Him .!!! … GOD Bless America .!!! … <3 …

      • You = Dumb

        You stupid bitch.

      • Paquita

        Why the insults? no need to insult anybody when you believe to be in the right.

        She is wrong, that is all to be said.

      • SyntheticPhylum

        You aren’t all that bright, are you? You read an article with plenty of facts about how our nation ISN’T a Christian one, and then you post THIS comment? Have some more Kool-Aid.

      • langranny

        Hey, once religion has drained the brain of logic it fills it up with idiocy…

      • regressive rightwing trash

        and continues to empty thy tithing wallet

      • Jeanie Altman

        … The “facts” in the article only prove, as a Reminder, how much Our Country needs GOD … “In GOD We Trust” and “One Nation Under GOD” were added because Our Country had come through Great Obstacles and Wars and remained a Great Nation … They were given in Thanks, to an Ever Present GOD who continued to stand behind us in terrible times … The Bible teaches the Road to Heaven is Narrow, but the Road to Hell is Wide and Easy and Many will take it to their our damnation …

      • raytheist

        Seriously, Jeanie, you need to go back to school and learn the history of the United States and focus on our founding fathers and learn WHY they deliberately left God out of the Constitution. The early colonies had all manner of religious discrimination, and the founding fathers worked diligently to ensure that NO religion was controlling our nation. The United States of America was one of the FIRST nations to be formed specifically without a reference to God. We must remain a fully secular nation in order to guarantee your right to practice your religion privately on your own terms. Putting “under God” into the Pledge, or putting “In God We Trust” on our money, was NOT in thanks to God, but was just blatantly thumbing our collective nose at communism under McCarthyism that had run amok.

      • Nknow

        She missed out on that part of History class that told about Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans and Calvinists putting each other to death in Europe. Good wholesome bible believing Christians murdering, burning, hanging and disemboweling each other over a matter of Semantics. The people who founded this nation wanted none of that. They’d already read that book and it didn’t end well.

      • SyntheticPhylum

        She needs to read about the Treaty of Tripoli, as well. You know; the one where it is EXPLICITLY stated that the United States is IN NO WAY a Christian nation?

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        AND that we are friends with Muslims. (Or we’re supposed to be)

      • She Needs To Go Back To School And Learn That Not Every Word Needs TO BE Capitalized. Geeze, why are those people always barely functioning illiterates? If they read more, perhaps from non-religious history books, they might catch on.

      • 65snake

        Except that these were NOT added for these reasons. The stuff in the 50’s was added to distance ourselves from those “godless commies”. Ever hear of McCarthyism? You can google it.

      • Monie in the Middle

        *face palm* Really Jeanie? REALLY?

      • Randell Cinnamon

        Stay indoctrinated, bitch. You are obviously too myopic to see REAL facts.

      • langranny

        Which god are you referring to? Zeus? Thor? Allah?…

      • Truetuft

        She’s dyslexic he meant to spell: DOG

      • Jeanie Altman

        … There is only One True GOD, and that is the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob … And he doesn’t Force Anyone to do Anything … It’s a Personal Choice to Follow Him … A True Christian Does Not Force Religion on Anyone … That’s a Choice Everyone makes for themselves …

      • dylan

        No…no there isn’t. There is no one true god. There is the god you pray to and you think all others are heathens. Religion itself is bogus. if god created everything, who or what created god? Man did. Religion was created by early man to answer the questions he couldn’t answer for himself. It makes you feel good, but that’s it.

      • read

        Where the hell do you think Zeus, Thor, The Great Spirit, Buddha and the other “non religions” came from. They were created by MAN to explain what he could not understand. They are characters in explanation stories.

      • TRUTHbTOLD

        ever see the zietgiest movies? jesus “the son” took the place of the SUN in the zodiacle chart, your jesus fish on the back of your car, has nothing to do with jesus, its representation of picies, as that is the age we are in. the age of aquarius is coming. YOUR “holy son” is really the “holy sUn” YOUR god is just a character in am explanation story.

      • Gizzy N

        “Obey or burn” <~~~ yup, heck of a choice there.

        Jeanie, if some guy came up to you and held a gun to your child's head and said, "give me all of your money, or your child dies…" would you feel as though you'd been giving a PERSONAL CHOICE about whether or not to hand over your money?

        So basically – your god is no better than a petty thief with a gun: "obey or burn." EXCELLENT role model of morality there…

      • Maxwell Pomeroy Sr.

        You speak of the God of the Jews and Muslims as well … or are you truly so ignorant that you did not know that?

      • Alphafemale

        But people like you Jeanie demand that our government pass laws based on your god. If its a personal choice then how the hell do you justify the passage of laws based on religious beliefs?

      • regressive rightwing trash

        Jeanie is either small chested or overweight–or both

      • Jace Wright

        There is nothing wrong with passing bills based on religious beliefs, as long as they don’t infringe upon people rights.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        hey Jeanie— lets see your ghost in the sky GOD cure an amputee. until YOUR God does that Your GOD is impotent. when YOUR GOD does that U will have all of my money and energy promoting THAT GOD

      • GayAtheist64

        I’m in total agreement with you, but arguing such points with folks like her is a lesson in futility. Incidentally, what is this obsession you seem to have with the relation of boob or body size to (intelligence?)? That’s pretty laughable. If you can’t tell, I’m on your side, but… really?

      • Nknow

        I’ve always been partial to Odin.

      • Branwyn Kimble

        Odin’s a jerk. Loki’s kinda fun to worship, though. You never quite know what you’re going to get. It’s always a surprise. 🙂

      • Nknow

        Loki is too much of a wise guy. Fun at parties, but not good at ruling.

      • Branwyn Kimble

        Cthulhu maybe?

      • Dan S Howe

        GOD LOVES YOU TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

      • I Hate Dumbassary

        Apparently your so called God didn’t love you enough to teach you how to spell or use spell check…

      • jenniferann

        I can’t say I feel the same way. Maybe it would be different if those who claimed to be Christian really spent their lives trying to be like Christ. Mostly, I see a religion that’s been hijacked by extremists spreading fear and intolerance while claiming its the word of God and his Love. The man said to bring his word to those who had not yet heard, not force conformity of belief on those who were not interested. Forcing America to be a Christian country would make us no different than the countries that ban all faith or force a religion on its people.

      • dylan

        Our world would be much more advanced if religion hadn’t been there. For centuries, scientific discoveries, medical breakthroughs, etc..were all suppressed so the religious “leaders” could stay in control and in power. Go against the “church” back then and they would kill you. Spanish Inquisition? Confess or we will torture you to death. If you do confess? They kill you quickly.

      • James

        Wow, you should really go back and research the Middle Ages, the Reformation, and the Renaissance again. Throughout the Middle Ages the only reason that much of ancient history survived (including texts from pagan religions and Greek/Roman philosophy) was because of the Church. During this time, the Church was the primary source of scientific advancement (esp. in the medical fields). Most other advancement was difficult because of the population shortage caused by the Black Plague (you need a large labor force for people to have the leisure time to invent/innovate). Throughout most of the Spanish Inquisition, the Church’s primary focus was trying to keep local government leaders from using religious “crimes” for political gains- aka- the Church wasn’t the one that did most of the killing/torture- it was local leaders. The Church did quite a bit more to STOP it than propagate it. However, this fact is not widely spread because viewing the Church (and Christians) as unscientific, ignorant, or just stupid works better for the propaganda that the progressive movement needs to set its agenda. If I had to choose, I’d choose the Church over progressives any day. In the name of progress, they’ve sterile the mentally ill (eugenics programs) and enacted the Jim Crow laws to prevent the races from mixing. So, yes, I suppose if there were no conservatives to stop them, refocus them on human rights, we might all be more advanced- since only those with good genes would be allowed to reproduce. Like the great progressive said in defense of a state’s right to add a “perfect gene pool” to the public welfare, “Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”

      • Yen

        Right but History is written by the winners, and seeing how most of the world, in the middle ages (and where there were churches), were Christians! So of course they would want you to think that to get them in a better light, but people that actually payed attention in school know that Galileo was suppressed and killed by the CHRISTIAN CHURCH that ruled everything in Europe at the time!

      • James

        OK, so you are half-right, but you didn’t intend to be. Many of the historical inaccuracies relating to the middle ages and the history of the Catholic Church were written in the 19th Century by Protestant historians trying to discredit the Catholic Church. So, while there is still some question about whether Galileo spent 3 days in jail, there is no question that he was not tortured, nor was he murdered by the Church- in fact, the people he was in the most danger from were rival scientists! It is the same historians who perpetuated the myth that people in the time of Columbus thought the world was flat- they didn’t- the reason they didn’t believe in Columbus’s voyage was because they believed in a round world, they just didn’t think there would be anything else (the Americas) they would encounter on the trip to the East. They calculated the voyage too be much too far for their ships (which would have been correct if Columbus didn’t run into the Americas). Sounds like you have the opposite prejudice- you are so against Christianity that you try to see them in the worst light possible.

      • Yen

        I don’t see them in the worst light possible, I just don’t agree with everything that Christians have done in the world and have said to me (and i know it isn’t all Christians) but what I have been taught and what I teach my students as a high school history teacher, is that the Christian church prosecuted the scientists during the Middle Ages. Besides why would fellow scientists execute other scientists? To gain glory for them selves, but seeing as though it was a very long time before the theory of the sun being the center of the solar system, I don’t think that it was the scientists. If I had gone through all of that trouble just to execute a fellow scientist, I would’ve spread the theory. But seeing as though this didn’t happen, they must’ve been killed and tortured by an outside force, and the only power that was strong back then was the Christian Church.

      • Sherri G

        The CHURCH ordered the torture and deaths of hundreds of the Knights Templar because the king was jealous and the church feared their wealth and power…..Inquisition, times of famous alchemists who had to deny their trade or be tortured at the hands of the church……geesh, I see a pattern here.

      • lwwgaw

        In fact, Jesus’ statements about himself contradict the notion that he was simply a great man or a prophet. On more than one occasion, Jesus referred to himself as God’s Son. When asked whether he thought it far-fetched for Jesus to be the Son of God, lead singer of U2, Bono, answered:
        “No, it’s not far-fetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: He was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off the hook. Christ says, No. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me a teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet….I’m saying I’m God incarnate.” And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet we can take.”[

        The claims of Jesus Christ force us to choose. As Lewis stated, we cannot put Jesus in the category of being just a great religious leader or good moral teacher. This former skeptic challenges us to make up our own minds about Jesus, stating,
        “You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”[

      • That’s not Bono, that’s from Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

        And it’s a false trilemma, there are other possible solutions, such as “many people with false beliefs about some things also have true beliefs about other things, and so can still be good ethical teachers while being wrong about, say, cosmology” or “Many people who are not mad, evil, or the son of a deity can make religious claims–or claims about anything else–and simply be mistaken.” or “He may have been misquoted, mistranslated, all of the things written about him may have been Roman propaganda to create a single, monotheistic, imperial religion, or a mixture of all three of these.”

        Whether you find any of these, or any other possibilities, convincing or evidenced or appealing or not doesn’t matter…what matters is those possibilities, and many others, exist, making the trilemma FALSE, a rhetorical trick, and sadly reductionist. Life is just more complicated than that.

        Worst of all, it’s just disingenuous. Religious figures have made all sorts of claims, and not only were Jesus’s claims not unique in the world and in history, they weren’t even unique in his own time-period. There were god-men all over in those days, a regular plague of them. One, Simon Magus, is even mentioned in the NT, but of course the propaganda had to say he was beaten in a magickal battle with apostles. People have been claiming to be gods since there were people who believed in gods. So what?

        Muhammed claimed an angel dictated a new and improved Bible. He doesn’t “leave open” any other interpretation than his claim to divine knowledge, either. The Buddha claimed to have reached enlightenment and to understand the true nature of existence…he doesn’t “leave open” anything else, either. Aleister Crowley claimed that three metaphysical principles of existence, Egyptian “neter” (not quite the same as gods), send a “discarnate intelligence”–an angel–to dictate a new “holy book” for a new era of humanity; he, too, didn’t “leave open” any other interpretation: Thelema is the LAW, and the universe isn’t asking us to enact it, it’s saying that’s the way things are and we can adapt or be extinguished by nature itself. Right now, a man in India named Sai Baba is claiming to be God, period, full stop, no qualifications, no “son of” or “second person of the Trinity” bits…just God, and he’s not “leaving open” any other options, either.

        Nothing is special about Jesus and his claims. Winning the “history game” is temporary, and he’s not winning any more. There have been many “winners” before our culture, and there will be others in the future…and they will think of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam with the same sort of incredulity and derision you feel for the old pagan religions that were the “winners” before Christianity. Just be happy we’ve gotten past the “setting the losers on fire” stage of history.

      • glebec

        This rant only makes you look crazy and adds to the validity of the other posts here.

      • redstatedem

        Maybe if we ACTED more like God intended we would have to add his name to give an air of legitimacy.

      • Nknow

        And how did god “intend” us to act?

      • Raspoutin

        I always wonder if people like Jeanie actually believe their own crap or if they re just plain simple minds

      • Rose

        I’m all for our God to be a ‘she’ and not a ‘him’ or even a bit of both.

      • Kayli ‘Kiyo’ Mills

        Why are you capitalizing random words? xD

      • Alphafemale

        You go and believe in your God. As for me,,, god does not nor ever has existed. Gods were created by man thousands of years ago as a way for humans to rationalize things they didn’t have the education to understand. Things such as volcanoes, earthquakes etc. The number of gods expanded exponentially as humans began to question and seek answers to the things they didn’t understand. Then someone came up with an idea that there aren’t numerous gods there is one god and thus created the catalyst for the worst idea ever bestowed upon mankind. And since that time, people have been killed, targeted, ostracized, humiliated, and discriminated against. If needing god and turning to god means destroying others then no thank you.

      • Diane

        Well thank you for proving the point of the article. It clearly states that this country was NOT founded on Christianity, but hysterical shriekers like you cover their ears and go LALALALALALALALALALA. If this country needs any protection, it’s from people like you who see anyone who’s different as a threat to be wiped out.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        GOD???? would that beeeeee ” your” God??? y’know the one I refer 2: a lond dead jewish carpenter who was in favor of helping old people and helping cripples and feeding the poor and children– would that be the “one”??

      • Curious

        Did you mean long dead Jewish carpenter? And why would you have a problem with someone who is in favor of helping those less fortunate them himself? You must be a very lonely, discontented person to feel the need to be so hateful.

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Good F*cking GAWD! How many of you morons who insist that this is a Christian Nation slept through your history classes?

        Quick and Dirty History Tidbit: THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED BASED ON (now say it with me, class) ==R-E-L-I-G-I-O-U-S F-R-E-E-D-O-M==.

        Let me explain a little something to you idiots, okay? (yes, I -am- being insulting. Byte me. YOU’RE being stupid, so you don’t get the nice me)

        If this Nation is a Theocracy (Which is another name for it being a so-called Christian Nation), then which sect of Christianity is it based on? Anyone? Buhller? No answer, huh? You know why? Because “Christianity” is not ONE religion, or one sect, but many. And the only thing they have in common is the New Testament.

        So again, which sect of “Christianity” is our nation supposed to be based on? Baptism? Catholicism? Christian Scientist? Jehovah’s Witness? Methodist? Quakers? Mennonite?…Stop me when you figure out which one, okay?

        Do you see the problem here? None of these sects believe the others are the “chosen”. Sooooo. If we are to become a Theocracy, there can be only one. And the rest of y’all are gonna get pissed. Pretty much the same way y’all are getting pissed, now, because you believe that the “Christianity” that this nation was supposedly founded on (again, it was not), is your particular brand, and it annoys you that the Commander in Chief is not practicing YOUR version of “Christianity”.

        And just to add insult to injury: If this were a “Christian Nation”, and your particular brand of Christianity was not the ruling sect, guess what? You would not be allowed to practice your brand. Period. And no one who is any other religion would be able to, either, but that’s beside the point. See… contrary to what you like to bitch and bawl about, you are NOT being persecuted! You can go to any church you want, and it’s okay. So shut the f*ck up, go read a history book, and take a civics class. Then come back and try to be a civilized member of society, m’kay?

      • Curious

        Did you mean Baptist? Baptism is a sacrament by which new members are welcomed into a Christian religion.

      • GayAtheist64

        Uhm….., Jeanie dear… did you happen to read the article?

  • Brook

    Were not the vast majority of the population Christian though?

    • No. When this nation was founded in 1776, Native Americans still out numbered us.

      • SeaTeaPea

        Except at that time they weren’t considered citizens, let alone considered people even.

      • The question was about “Population” not Citizens!

      • Linda

        Except for the fact that the Native Americans were around much longer than the white man and therefore more “citizen” than the invaders.

      • dubya13

        technically…the nation wasn’t founded in 1776. that’s when we broke off from England, but we weren’t really a nation. in fact, i wouldn’t even call us a nation until after the articles of confederation (from 1781), the purpose of which was to actually keep us apart rather than bring us together as one, was disbanded…the constitution didn’t happen until 1787, and took 2 years to actually be implemented

        THAT is when the nation was founded. did natives still outnumber europeans? yeah. just saying…the banner year 1776 is important, but thrown around WAY too much

    • caro

      ..And the POINT of not assigning a religion is so that ANY religion is not used as a basis for the country. Jefferson himself was an Athiest.

      • moonkat51

        Jefferson was not an atheist, he was a deist. Which is: Deism gained prominence in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment—especially in Britain, France, Germany and America—among intellectuals raised as Christians who believed in one god, but found fault with organized religion and could not believe in supernatural events such as miracles, the inerrancy of scriptures, or the Trinity.[8]

      • nice

      • Qwertyy650

        He cut up a bible, now known as the Jefferson Bible, to remove all references to the supernatural, miracles, etc. It ended up being a pamphlet.

    • Not only native Americans, but also, less people went ot church around the time of the Revolutionary war than do now in the US.

      • Really?

        Did we have 310+ million people in this country in 1776? I wonder why “…less people went ‘to’ church…” There, corrected your spelling.

    • What if they were? Does a specific group having a majority mean that the country is theirs more than another?
      If there were more women in the country than men back then, does that make this a women’s nation? If there were more brown haired people, does that mean this is a brunette’s country?
      I also love how the large blanket term of “Christian” is used and not,say, Puritan, or Baptist, Catholic, or Unitarian. Which subset of Christians was the majority at the time? If majority population at the time is what decides the kind of nation we are, then we are a probably Presbyterian nation.
      Not a Presbyterian? THEN GET OUT!

    • illmunkeys

      Does it matter? Jefferson: “In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot” Lincoln: “The bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.” Franklin: “I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works … I mean real good works … not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing … or making long prayers.” Madison: “Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.” Paine: “”I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.” We are not a Christian nation. We are a nation with Christians. And Muslims. And Buddhists. And Agnostics. And everything in between.

  • pszymeczek

    And the only other place in the Constitution that religion is mentioned, besides the First Amendment, is in Article VI, where it states:

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of
    the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers,
    both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by
    Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test
    shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust
    under the United States

    • Infallible

      According to these states, they don’t care what god or goddess you believe, AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE. Which is DISCRIMINATION against Atheists/Non-Believers.

      Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:

      Atheists disqualified from holding office or testifying as witness.

      No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

      Maryland, Article 37:

      That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.

      Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:

      No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

      South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:

      No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.

      Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2 (PDF):

      No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

      Texas, Article 1, Section 4:

      No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

      • pszymeczek

        Also from Article VI:

        This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding
        That’s what’s known as the Supremacy Clause, and it renders the states’ requirements invalid.

      • sj D

        It doesn’t matter what the state constitutions say, if they are challenged they will loose and the US Constitution is the law of the US and is supreme over any state constitution.

      • pszymeczek

        My point, exactly. Thank you.

      • xnerd

        yeah not sure he got the point 🙂

      • pastrami

        Sounds to me as though he did.

      • Star Doe

        read stardoe comment above.

      • Larry Cook

        sj D, actually the state Constitution has just as much weight in matters that are not of the Federal control. Such as the license of drivers in each state, the requirements of such, becomes the states responsibiliby, as long as the ”Federal Guidelines are met”
        Only under suit, and court decisions is the Constitution held higher than that of a State’s. But for the most part, they exist in parallel power. And most of them follow that of the Federal one, with minor changes.

      • bart

        Except for smoking dope in Colorado which it seems many of these leftovers have have spent a little to much time under the cloud

      • Rockin

        Lucky Coloradans.. Free at last, free at last.

      • Star Doe

        wrong. read stardoe above

      • Larry Cook

        Only if the Feds take the issue up and decide they have said control. But this is not an answer to the question, does Freedom of Religion, as stated, also mean Freedom from any mention of Religion. What I read, it merely prohibits the Government from putting their brand on one religion, and that becoming the law of the land. Nowhere does it say, our little minds will never be exposed to religion. However, in court rulings, that is exactly the stand taken. Any mention of a religion, or God, has been destroyed in courts for decades. Yet even the government has prayers and such, in the opening of the Senate, the “Ten Commandments” and Moses posted upon the very building of the Supreme Court.
        As long as the government does not require all to honor and respect their offerings, so what. Where does it hurt anyone to show respect and let others that wish, pray?
        I say, if I wish to pray, and you are not a believer, then just go on about your life, and leave me to my beliefs.

      • Larry Cook

        Only in matters that are in the Federal hands, all other laws and rules are binding in the state, for matters that are in their hands for control. And as far as I have read, non of the State’s constitutions have been found in error. Just as one state bans the voting by convicted persons, it is really not allowed under the Federal rules, and is being challegned in courts right now. They have served their time, and under our Constution, have their rights restored at that time.

      • pszymeczek

        But laws/State constitutions which require office holders to be believers ARE in direct contradiction with the U.S. Constitution and are, therefore, invalid.

      • Star Doe

        wrong. The United Stares is 10 miles square, and its territories such as guam, marina islands, philipines, and enclaves of States such as military bases and post offices etc. Only in these area are they Supreme. Google “Federal Jurisdiction within the States” and read it. it is a lengthy docunent but will explain what i have just stated. Especially part II. It is a official doucment put togather by All attorney Generasl of All the States and the US Attorney General. Also consider the three definitions of the term United States. googlecthe Legal deffinition abd read.

      • James

        Except that those WERE legal until the 14th Amendment extended the First Amendment’s restrictions on the Federal Government to the States, Commonwealths, and Territories. Technically the States had every right to make religious laws (most still had “official” state churches) because the first Amendment only restricted Congress from making laws establishing/restriction religion. Currently, those laws are not that different from hundreds of other laws that are “still on the books” but not enforced. And at the time, when a large majority of the country was religious, knowing that someone was accountable to some Supreme Being gave people comfort and trust in their ability to truthful under oath (considering you “swear to God” to be truthful). Many of these laws were also made at a time when Atheists were trusted less than Jews or Muslims (who were both discriminated against in the early history of America- and much of the western world).

      • pszymeczek

        Article VI is in the basic document – not an amendment, so it PREDATES the Fourteenth Amendment. Therefore, they WEREN’T legal.

      • James

        Article VI only applied to officials “under the United States”- which, at the time, only applied to Federal positions. Because of the concept of States Rights, the States were under no such obligation UNTIL the 14th Amendment incorporated them into these laws (it still wasn’t until the 1950s-60s that such laws came off the books/were invalidated in many states).

      • pszymeczek

        Read the entire thing. It clearly is applicable to the states, since it says: “…the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.”

      • James

        I did. And yes, all Federal & State employees must follow these requirements NOW- however, when the State laws were passed, the doctrine of States’ rights allowed them to be passed- and unchallenged. It was no until Torcaso v. Watkins in the 1960s that the Supreme Court made it clear that those provisions applied to the States. Torcaso was an atheist in Maryland who was appointed by the Governor to be a notary public. He refused to make the declarations of believe and filed suit. The Supreme Court ruled that, mainly because of the indoctrination clauses in the 14th Amendment, that Article VI does apply to the States. Furthermore, the concept that the 1st Amendment establishment clause applied to States is also recent- from the 1947 Supreme Court case- Everson v. Board of Education – since the 1st Amendment only states that Congress shall not establish religions. The rulings on this case are also built on the indoctrination clause of the 14th Amendment. The line about judges being responsible for the Constitution simply means that all judges are also responsible for application of Federal law in addition to State laws. It also means that the laws of the States cannot hinder or supersede the laws of the Federal- like when Maryland attempted to tax the National Bank.

      • pszymeczek

        Ogden v. Gibbons (1824) was an influential case involving the supremacy clause. The state of New York had granted Aaron Ogden a monopoly over the steamboat business in the Hudson River. The other party, Thomas Gibbons, had obtained a federal permit under the Coastal Licensing Act to perform the same task. The Supreme Court
        upheld the federal permit. John Marshall wrote, “The nullity of an act, inconsistent with the Constitution, is produced by the declaration, that the Constitution is the supreme law. The appropriate application of
        that part of the clause which confers the same supremacy on laws and treaties, is to such acts of the State legislatures as do not transcend their powers, but though enacted in the execution of acknowledged State powers, interfere with, or are contrary to the laws of Congress, made in
        pursuance of the Constitution, or some treaty made under the authority of the United States. In every such case, the act of Congress, or the treaty, is supreme; and the law of the State, though enacted in the exercise of powers not controverted, must yield to it.

        The decision in Ogden predates the Fourteenth Amendment by 44 years, and affirms the Supremacy Clause.

      • James

        Right- this case was over business- which is clearly established in the Commerce Clause:: however Religion was held as a right of the states- not in the purview of the Federal Government- Moreover, once the Bill of Rights passed, it was esp. not in the purview of the Federal Government. (not to forget that most of the tenants of the Bill of Rights were only viewed as being restraints against Federal Power, not State power- until the 14th Amendment).

      • pszymeczek

        What is your source for saying that establishment of religion is a right of the States?

      • James

        Easy- the 10th Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.” (remembering that the 1st Amendment only states that “Congress shall make no law…”

      • pszymeczek

        Then Article VI and the First Amendment take religion out of the purview of the states.

      • James

        While, yes, the Constitution is the “law of the land” and supreme to state law- the 1st Amendment only applied to CONGRESS- “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Congress shall.. not the government, not state legislatures, not local mayors, just Congress- until the 14th Amendment established that citizens of the representative states were citizens of the United States first and foremost “No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;” Up until that point, most people identified with State first, and nation second. So yes, looking at Article VI and the First Amendment AFTER the effects of the 14th Amendment, religion is out of the purview of ALL government entities- but not BEFORE the 14th Amendment- prior to, it was only out of the purview of the NATIONAL/FEDERAL government.

      • Anna Sefalik


      • Ron

        So, no laws should be followed! Liberalism and socialism are ridiculous and cause chaos! We are a free country and both liberalism and socialism are detrimental to our society. God states that we are held liable for what we do on earth. If we don’t have, God or laws than we can just kill who ever we want when we want. Right! You liberals are just fools if you believe otherwise.

      • James

        Arguments like this only serve to give progressives more fuel to the “conservatives are idiots/stupid/etc.” argument they are so fond of using while sitting smugly at their keyboards. Please try to refrain from using hysterical absolutes when progressives are present.

      • Brett Ellis

        So if what your saying is true the only thing keeping you from murdering your children, raping random women, steal everything in sight and then lying about it to the authorities is the bible, or the fictional threat of hell?

        If anything that says Christians are psychopathic freaks who have regressed behind the neanderthals. If a society of people on the brink of becoming monsters is held at bay by the story of the creator who made them then I say stop teaching the story, it obviously makes people into monsters.

        BTW statistically speaking Atheists/Agnostic/Non-beliver are between 20% and 25% (depending on either the 2010 Census numbers or separate demographic polling) of the nation’s population yet less than .2% of the prison population. Christians take the top slot for criminal offenders around 60%, again plus or minus depending on the source. If anything the Christians are generating the greater number of criminals and therefore are statistically more immoral than Atheists.

        By the way our constitution was written I tend to think the founding fathers knew this too.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        GOD fucking states???? GOD says what???? since when Do U–or any otrher pea brained human– have the 100% info as to what GOD says???? U fucking maggot

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        You might have made a better point had you cut down on the question marks, used full words, and didn’t cuss or call names.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        if so-called “colorful” language infuriates U,,,,,pehaps proper English such as micropenile and steatopygous and “pseudomastial” is more calming to a anatomically Incorrect virago such as thyself? let me know;OK? U infelicitous napiform quidnunc (Q.V.)

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        At what point did I say it infuriated me? I was just saying that you can make a much better point without the random caps, with fully spelled words (as opposed 2 U R, etc), and foul language. All three of those just gives off the impression that you’re crass and uneducated.

        As for your multisyllabic words: Did you just randomly flip through a dictionary or thesaurus to find them? Because I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean. Such as “micropenile”. I really think that that term fits you soooooo much better. Same with the -other- definition of infelicitous (which is: Inappropriate or awkward; not well said, expressed, or done).

        I do appreciate the one compliment you threw my way; I never thought of myself as heroic, though (although, thinking that a woman being heroic also must mean she’s masculine says far more about you, than it does about me). However, I am quite anatomically correct, and my breasts and ass are proportional and have never had any complaint. Neither am I a turnip, nor do I even resemble one, but thanks for playing (that was the one I actually had to look up). I will give you points for creativity. Just follow Vanna behind the curtain and receive your consolation prize.

        Am I a busybody? Perhaps. But this -is- an open forum, so I believe I am entitled to give my opinion.

        Sorry that I didn’t get all blustery and annoyed at your attempt at creative insult, but you actually did me a favor. See, I’m taking a Medical Terminology course, and I have an exam tomorrow. So thanks for the quiz. Although psuedomastial isn’t actually a medical term, you did a really good job of combining the two parts. I’m impressed. Who would have ever suspected that a knuckle-dragging mouth-breather such as yourself was even capable of turning a page, let alone comprehending the very basic rules of Medical Terminology?

        Oh, and once again, you would make a much better point and be taken far more seriously if you didn’t resort to personal attacks.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        hey kreskin: if U think I carry around a dictionary just to attempt2 convey my intellect 2 some supposedly anatomically “right on” femme fatale as thee….thou art Incorrect. Decades ago I acquired even MORE books ( the superior persons book of words – peter bowler– and the highly selective dictionary for the extraordinary literate- Eugene ehrlich –among others) as I found that WORDS and proper syntax did garner high grades ( especially for creativity) in the schools I eventually was thrown out of ( no sense of humor within those defrockable nuns)due 2 my irascibility and artwork in and on inappropriate items NOT belonging 2 me as well as in contemporary times beheld by higher quality women who appreciate–and SEEK– a man who is fractured yet fun; athletic and in great shape yet not consumed by THAT as well as an engaging conversationalist…… I enjoy sparring with all intellects: from the average to the pseudo intellectuals such as you who lambast anything that doesn’t fit your agenda ( see: ‘dirty words’). NOTE if PSEUDOMASTIA is NOT an accepted term YET ( I years ago contacted an online dictionary and their paralogism was “its not mainstream; so we don’t place it in our publication” ) Awwwww,,,,, me so bummed out! it IS perfect to describe BOOOOO-JOBS. If you are insistent on inferring that I care about how ‘seriously’ im taken on a computer-generated THREAD such as this I am remiss in my recondite argot polluting this page—– PLEEEEEZ find it within you 2 forgive me and my maladroitness.

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        You’re f*cking funny, you know that? What’s with the thees and thous? This is 2013. Even Shakespeare wrote his plays to be appreciated by the common man and would probably be quite fascinated at the turn that his mother tongue took here in the US. And, you know, if you want to make obnoxious troll-posts using bad grammar, personal attack and single letters or numbers rather than actual words, go for it. I just thought I’d mention that you’d be taken more seriously otherwise. But hey, it’s your life, and you can troll all your little hairy, ground-scraped knuckles can bear, if that’s what you want.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        6’2 210( with a terrrrible 15% body fat) basketball/surfing/weightlifting,,,,, full head of GLORIOUS UNCOLORED ( can U say that about Thyself??) hair,,,,,no drugs,,,don’t drink,,,no cigs,,,no caffeine ( certainly do NOT need it) and a self employed chef living one block from beach in pompano ( SEE: “FT.L”) florida. If I told U where I have been making my $$$ since 1989 U would REALLY luv meeeeeeeeeeeee!!! I did however follow THY self serving path to “PeRFEcTion” by having my knuckles shortened and placed silicone implants within them so now they float. As its quite obvious to my “thelyphthoric” self that U are among the intellectual giants who “think” writing/posting ANYTHING upon these entertainment-value ONLY threads is 2 be taken ‘seriously’ perhaps your omnipresent self might get a weeeeee bit temulent and attempt asexual liason with any man who shares your myopic view of you being anything more than average looking. That just might free thyself from the bovaristic view U seem to self state about yourself. novoa skoz kaepohp VOOTIE!!!

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Am I supposed to be impressed by your stats? Because I didn’t get the memo.;

      • regressive rightwing trash

        no of course not,,,,,,, U are supposed to( again) send back a nugatory message solidifying my view of your crybaby nature. That’s what insufferable cretins do—

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Hmmm. No tears being shed over here. Sorry to disappoint.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        actually ur message was precisely what I predicted,,,,wanna “double down” for ur next round? sooooooooo easy to anticipate the “move” of semi-conscious blivets such as thee

      • GayAtheist64

        Actually…. Lorrie really had a good point before both of you started behaving like children. All she said (to begin with) was that your comment would be much more credible, were you to type like an adult. Translated into socially acceptable English, your original comment (to Ron) is actually correct.

      • GayAtheist64

        You’re correct to say the original comment would have been more credible if expressed properly, but behavioral digression on each party’s part only made for futility. Very immature.

      • SyntheticPhylum

        I think the knuckle-dragging Neanderthal is SWEET on you, Lorrie? Think he could be housebroken, or will he just end up humping your leg and pissing on the floor? 😉

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        0_o;; What a disturbing thought. Nope, nope, nope. Ain’t gonna entertain that one, nope. I doubt he could ever be housebroken. LOL.

      • jdunaway65

        Oh, gee! Let me bow down and worship at the altar of thee, you majestic, heroic, god-like person….

        Wait a minute, I thought YOUR GOD said “thou shalt not bow down to any others before me!”


      • Joan Brown

        I have to agree with you on a lot of this, including the fowl language. Back in the sixties when my late brother was in Marine Corp Boot Camp, his drill instructor told the guys that the only people that have to swear and use fowl language are the ones that are too dumb to think of other words to use. That being said it also annoys me when people use texting shortcuts.

      • Joan Brown

        Are you aware that there isn’t any word spelled “U?”


        So you got the scoop the lowdown ,What’s god telling you now?

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Ron, you’re right about one thing, as a non-christian, I rape and murder and steal just as much as I want. Which is precisely ZERO. And guess what? I don’t get my ethics and morals from some make-believe bearded guy in the sky.

        The fact that you need an outdated storybook that contradicts itself, and a belief in a mythological Bad Place that you’ll be sent to if you do anything wrong… is frightening! It means you can’t think for yourself.

      • Roesen Klara

        The only thing that counts is reason. Any believe in any kind of deity is not reasonable, because otherwise the world would be a much better place. I love liberalism, the word means freedom and I always thought, that Americans were free, it does not seem so. You tie yourself to religion and you are as fanatic as any extremist. Extremism is dangerous,any religion is dangerous. See overpopulation, murder and mayhem for religious reason. In my lion should be outlawed. I’m a 73 year old computer specialist and science is where it’s at. So believe and be disappointed, nobody is going to save you.

      • jonathan

        Who cares what god states which is really what some king, or wealthy slave owner etc. wrote down in a book a couple thousand years. You realize the bible has been re-translated and re-worded, and put through Councils (of Nicea) omitting certain parts they didn’t like countless times? Liberalism and socialism say NOTHING about getting rid of laws. What the hell are you talking about? Have you ever actually looked up the definitions and read any scholarly essays on what these words actually mean? Or are you just on repeat from FOX or your crazy grandfather or something? Hell, socialism generally brings more laws into play. But yes, full on socialism does cause messes. There are some things the government or one company does better than free market though. Such as power and water distribution. Generally easier for one company to handle it for a region. You’re apparently the fool for doing no research of your own. No reading the stances of the other side to see where they’re coming from to find a common ground with your opinions. Nope, just listen to one side and repeat everything they say even if you really don’t understand what you’re saying. I bet you didn’t even know true liberalism has never even existed.

      • Gary Menten

        Liberalism causes chaos? My dear boy, America was founded on liberalist principles. Have you ever heard of John Locke? What about Thomas Jefferson? Thomas Paine? Oh please do read a bit of American history before spouting inanities here.

      • Mike

        We already kill whomever we want. Try asking all the women and children slaughtered in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Or does God’s vengeance only apply to Christians?

      • GayAtheist64

        Ron, try reading Matthew 5:22 & get back with us “fools” about your trolling. okeedoke?

      • willfixit

        I don’t need “God” to have ethics and a sense of fair treatment towards others…
        Just sayin’

      • Eddie Higgins

        If one needs the treat of an everlasting burning in Hell to be good then just how good is said person. Empathy is all one needs not Religion !

      • James

        And I’m not saying they were RIGHT or WRONG. I’m saying that, in the historical context of that period, the state laws were widely accepted to be legal.

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        “Currently, those laws are not that different from hundreds of other laws that are “still on the books” but not enforced.”

        I beg to differ with you. The anti-atheism laws -are- still enforced.

      • piss on atheism

        Why is it that some Atheist whinebag always has to piss and moan anything religion is brought up?

      • LiberalConservationist

        How about I lift a leg on you, you whining little piss-ant. Everybody has rights here, if you can’t accept that, you should leave and don’t let the door hit you in the ass. I’ll assure you nobody will care, good riddance. By the way, I’m Methodist.

      • Dianne Hornick

        Why is it that some religious nutbag always tries to force their “god” on the rest of us?

      • regressive rightwing trash

        because they don’t want us to go to hell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, somehow Knowing that hell is burning 4EVER!!! ( I bet hell –if existing– has some FIIIIINE looking slim big chested sexually hungry humanoid females!!)

      • regressive rightwing trash

        im agnostic and piss on ALL religions when I can as ALL religions share one 100% commonality: they are all superstitions based upon ( a) accumulating OTHERS wealth,,,,(b) controlling OTHERS

      • Why5ks

        Isn’t it amazing how those who quote the Bible claiming it is the word of God have no idea who actually wrote the books? It is beyond them to even attempt to understand how the books were written a couple centuries after the men who are named as the authors even lived. Furthermore, they will not accept under any premise that the “laws” written in those books were the culturally accepted laws being written into “scripture” to give them force beyond any royal edict. As with the Jewish and Muslim tenet of not eating pork, is it quite possible that a lot of people got sick eating pork they decided to culturally ban it ( because of lack of refrigeration and the not knowing to heat it above 160 degrees to kill parasites) rather than God saying they couldn’t eat it.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        spot on my good man,,,,, spot on!! I actually DO know who wrote it: drunken male sheepherders

      • Why5ks

        Actually there is a new theory that was just released after a long theological (funny how the word logical appears in the middle of the word meaning study of religion) study claiming that Christianity and the stories of Jesus were created by rich Roman citizens as a way to quell the rebellions that were happening in the Holy Lands. It pointed to a number of writings by prominent Roman citizens that hinted at the creation of the myth. It also would explain how Saul/Paul became a leader of the Christian movement. Since he was born a Roman citizen and never met or mentioned Jesus until after his death. I do however like the drunken sheepherders theory for the Old Testament. For the New Testament I picture it being someone with multiple personalities.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        Ive heard that theory: even if irrevocable proof was found FOX “news’ and the militant money-making Christian RIGHT (???) would find a FOX “news” way to either buy it or claim a Kenyan communist muslim created it as to destroy AMERICA!!! 🙂

      • Curious

        How did Saul/Paul meet Jesus after His death?

      • Lorrie Crabtree

        Oh, no KIDDING! I hate it when Atheists come banging on my door to sell me their non-beliefs, and how Atheists tell women that we can’t control our own bodies, and then when I complain about them, they whine and bitch that they’re being oppressed…

        Oh, wait… that’s never happened.

      • Kate JW

        That’s awful! I am a Christian, but I would never require that anyone else subscribe to a particular belief in order to serve the people as an elected representative.

      • WorcesterMANative

        @katejw:disqus , unfortunately, you’re a rarity these days. All too many of the militant dominionists who have taken over the GOP do believe that we should all follow one particular belief – theirs – or, at least, live under that, oppressively. There are true, practising Christians, such as yourself, and then there are the professional so-called “Christians’ who are politicians, profiteers, and wolves-in-sheep’s clothing. You’re ‘the kind’ to be respected 🙂

      • Matthew Reece

        North Carolina’s constitution also excludes atheists from holding public office, but that has never been challenged.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        and that supreme being is (A) Michael Jordan,,,,,,(B) Marilyn Lange (yummie!!),,,,,(C) John C Holmes,,,,,,(D) Keith Emerson and/or Jimi Hendrix,,,,,,(E) Bugs Bunny

      • Anna Sefalik

        So belief in the Flying Spaghetti monster applies.

      • regressive rightwing trash

        only if I make the marinara( im a self employed chef) and the pasta is “al dente”

      • jdunaway65

        You left one out… in the sixties, everyone in England was saying “Clapton is God!”

      • Collean

        Atheist believe…… that there is no God/dess. So they are not discriminated against because they do BELIEVE. Their belief just differs from those that believe there is a God/dess. :

      • Anna Sefalik

        The word “atheist” comes from the Greek.

        The prefix “a” means “without.”

        “Theist” means believer in god(s).
        To say atheism is a belief, rather than the absence of belief, is like saying that clear is a color.

      • Wayne Everett Foster

        It is a belief though. It’s a belief that there is no supreme being no god no heaven or hell or anything other religions believe. However as much as I wish they would believe it is their right and they should not be punished with less rights cause they have different beliefs. I think it is likely set into place cause a huge number of people do believe that there is some form of higher being and it was to protect them from someone saying you can’t believe cause I don’t. People should have the right to choose I wish everyone believed but I’m certainly not gonna push my beliefs down other peoples throats so to speak. I don’t think people should be punished for belief in a higher power or lack of it. sorry for the rant just an opinion we are suppose to have the right to our own opinions and beliefs

      • Stephilmike

        Atheists do not believe there is a god. That is different from believing there is not god.

      • Marshall Alexander Knight

        You’re confusing atheism and agnosticism.

      • GayAtheist64

        Incorrect, Marshall. Agnosticism is the belief that the truth values of certain claims are unknown. Agnostics say there may or may not be a deity, but if there is it’s an impersonable one. Stephilmike’s statement is a matter of semantics & quite some debate, even within the Atheist/Agnostic Communities (as seen in other comments above). Alan, however, might be confusing the two.

      • Guest

        Would you mind taking another look at what you wrote. To me it seems like your saying that not believing there is a god is different from not believing there is a god.

      • Wayne Everett Foster

        I don’t see how. If you don’t believe you don’t believe In any case I am just saying poeple should not be punished for their belief or lack of belief.

      • No, it is a disbelief in any supreme being. Stop trying to used flawed logic. Our beliefs have nothing to do with Atheism or religion.

      • Dan Atatakai

        Wayne – no, it is a LACK of a belief in a deity, it is not a belief that there is no god, no heaven, or hell, etc. Big difference.

      • Alan

        Wrong Anna — Insofar as we cannot prove nor disprove the existence of a deity, BOTH positions are mere beliefs.

      • Twiz

        Wrong Alan, atheism by definition is the lack of belief. Atheists can have beliefs regarding the subject of religion, but atheism in and of itself is not a belief.

      • A lack of belief cannot be a belief. What school did you go to? Anna is correct and Atheism is the disbelief in any god(s). So please educate us and tell us what belief we have, without sound stupid!

      • Dan Atatakai

        Atheism is a LACK of a belief in a deity. A lack of a belief is not a belief.

      • Joan Brown

        Is white a color?

      • Yes! In light, it is all the color wavelengths combined in one! In fact you can take 3 colored lights, red, green & blue and direct them at a central point and you will make white light! 😛

      • Jack Hoft

        this is in fact a matter of perspective. if you Are the color white than you are in possession of all colors of the spectrum, but if you are looking at the color white than you are perceiving an absolute lack of any color. As white demonstrates the absorption of all light with no reflection, If on the other hand you, as suggested, take samples of three primary colors from the light spectrum and try to reintegrate them, you will get black light because while black in and of itself is in possession of no part of the light spectrum, when looked upon it is reflective of all the colors in the spectrum.

      • Guest

        therefore, atheists are in possession of no religious belief; no matter what you perceive reflected back at yourself from an atheist.

      • Kerry USN retired

        ” Which is DISCRIMINATION against Atheists/Non-Believers.”
        This is because they worship themselves and thus are untrustworthy.

      • Ian K

        Hmmm…does “denying the existence of a Supreme Being” get you out of jury service?

      • Concerned Citizen

        It is not discrimination, you to have your own religion, it is call No God religion. You just don’t look at it that way because you want to use it against anyone who does believe.

    • meatwad_SSuppet

      Exactly, and today the politician must pass the zionnazis religion test to get the funding to run for office.

      • James

        And the Citizen’s United decisions didn’t help matters either. We could have elections today funded entirely by religious groups- even foreign groups- because Super PACs don’t have to disclose donors.

      • WorcesterMANative

        @meatwad_SSuppet:disqus”zionnazis”? I don’t care if you’re left, reich, or center – you sound like a twat and a failure as a human being and world citizen.

    • Phil A

      Religion is mentioned, not God. Nor is Christianity mentioned anywhere… Constitution nor in the Declaration of Independence.

      • pszymeczek


      • Collean

        Yes Phil. Religion is mentioned. But please understand that the way that you see the world, the way that you define your worship of “GOD” is YOUR religion. And you do not have a right to inflict it on other.

      • John Michael Hutton

        It is mentioned to underscore that there is to be NO STATE RELIGION unlike what REpublicans seem to think it says. You argue the number of angels on the head of a pin.

      • Jay Lyles

        I would expound on :NO STATE “RECONIZED” RELIGION. Simple put, it means that the Government would not be able to reconize or give pre-eminence to one religion over another. Such was the case in England and was the reason so many left and came to america. This statement is used to exclude the mention of God from any of our Government establishments. It was never intended to be used to that end, only to preclude one religion from being appointed as the religion of the nation. God save us from the atheistic freethinkers.

      • Frank Silva

        They (The Pilgrams) did NOT come to America from England!
        Study and learn your history. Don’t rely on what you read in books written today. Most have been written by schollars who have little to no intention of backing up their papers with documentation.

        The “Pilgrams” left England and went to Holland, (Two attempt actually, before they made it) to escape the tyrany of the king. King James. You know, the one who had the bible interpreted re-written? And then put his seal of approval on it.

        A king that controlls a curch, controlls the people. And it was done with fear. Total domination of what the KING said the people are allowed to do. It was illegal to own a Bible. Because if you did, you could read it for yourself, and know that what the king was declaring was not what was written in the Bible.!!!

        AND if it was never inteded to be in ANY government establishment, then WHY is it in Hundreds of National Monuments? Washington’s monument, Linconln Memorial………etc…… Hundreds of references all over this nation. Because the founders (Yes, some of them athiests, or agnostic) knew that without the basic fundamentals of the Ten Commandments, you have a nation without morals.

        Ethics? Sure! But not morals. Latin Lesson for the day: Ethics: Greek word “ethos” meaning “character”.
        And Morals:Latin word “mos” meaning “custom” or “From personal belief”.

        As the Ten commandments set the beliefs in christianianity, morals of a Christian nation must also follow. Yes, Muslim’s have morals as well..

      • giantrobot1973

        the first three commandments are all about god being jealous and that there are no other gods before him and stuff. how do you reconcile that with the first amendment? Also note that under the 10 commandments, rape is totally legal. Glad we actually don’t use it for our legal system at all.

      • pastrami

        You are wrong to state that republicans think anything of the kind. And they don’t say such things. That’s YOUR interpretation of what they say.
        What they really say is that government has nothing to say about YOUR religion.

      • Larry Cook

        But Collean, the non-believers do? For that is exactly what is happening. We have to give up our prayers, and pledges for their comfort? Yet when polls are taken, there are more of us believers, than the non-. So it is no longer a government of the majority rule, a republic, but something else. Where a few, get special treatment, because of their non-beliefs.

      • John Baker

        No one’s saying you can’t pray and pledge to your little heart’s content. Just don’t try to force others to join you.

      • Frank Silva

        Don’t try to force your non-beliefs on Christians then! Goose/Gander. Dolt!!!

      • lostdutchman

        Is that not what BO is trying to do?

      • John Baker

        Did your mother raise an idiot, or are you a self-made man? No one, least of all me, is trying to “force their non-beliefs” onto you. Believe whatever you like. Nobody gives a shit. Just keep it to yourself.

      • Ed Lawrence

        A democracy is a majority rule, not a republic.

      • ISmellTacos

        uhhh, it is in EVERY STATE constitution…get a clue

      • Jeffrey Zamora

        Was there a point to this comment?

      • tobyspeeks

        Now I smell tacos. Damn him/her all to hell!

      • Jace Wright

        God is mentioned in the Declaration of independence. What are you talking about?

    • lostdutchman

      That would be an official test…the voters ma decide however they feel about It.

  • maxV0

    The ignorant continually confuse the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The former was a declaration of war against the British crown. Even then it doesn’t appeal to the Christian god specifically, just the reference of the unalienable right endowed by the “Creator,” and protection from divine Providence. Who can blame them? But it still doesn’t declare Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit or Yahweh or anyone specific as the divine inspiration for their proclamation.

    • Yallarecrazy

      Only because the 55 Christians, yes Christians, writing it didn’t want to chose one specific facet of Christianity to write it from the viewpoint of because it might offend anyone who was of a different facet. i.e. If they had written it from a Protestant perspective, they would have offended the Catholics and the Methodists. So that’s why it was so general. Also, they didn’t want to offend any of the few atheists that were around.

      • Right, because Christians are always so concerned with offending the “few” atheists that are around. (we’re roughly 19% of the population, or 60 million, more than any religious minority, but we’re still “the few”)

      • Wolfmist

        I like how the Methodists aren’t included in with the Protestants.

      • Kevin Carroll

        False, only about 2% of Americans describe themselves as athiests according to Gallop. 16 % say they have no particular religious affiliation. That is different.

      • I love your deliberate deception in the use of the term “Christian.” The founders were primarily theists, and not at all “Christian” in the sense that we use the term today. They believed in a god in terms of the creation of nature, but they viewed the trinity for example, as utter hogwash, and said so repeatedly in their writings.

        The image of god as a guiding force capable of exerting influence on us was anathema to their religious beliefs, and anathema to their intentions for our nation.

      • tellitlikeitis

        Not entirely true! Only in your opinion, which you have a right to!

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        Another one that needs to read the Treaty of Tripoli. Clearly you failed in your lie.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        Look up the Jefferson Bible some time.

      • You seem to be highly mis-informed as to the religious make up of this Country in 1776. They used the term Creator, because in addition to supposed Christians residing in this country, we also had Muslims, Jews, Rationalists, Alchemists, what we would now call Wiccan; and the list goes on. This Country has ALWAYS been populated with a vast array of religions.

      • WHERE do you get your information???? Before offering stuff like this you should check your facts. Look especially at Jefferson and Franklin, but also Adams (several).

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        Why leave out Paine?

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        YOU need to read the Treaty of Tripoli,,, but then you would lose your ability to argue “this is a nation founded on christian values”. That treaty specifically states that is not so. Good luck with your rinsing session(s).

  • Under God came in under the wing of Tail-Gunner Joe McCarthy…the man who had no shame

    • meatwad_SSuppet

      Yep, see part one for the details of the pledge and its changes over the years. @youtube


  • vetipie

    what is their point? Hey right wing christians, guess what the times are changing you are unpopular, your destructive religion is going down the tubes, your narrow minded arrogance/ignorant reign is over.. two things we can be sure of, change is immanent and you will die

    • phukk rightwing trash


  • Let’s not forget the Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, unanimously passed and signed by every sitting senator in the year 1796.

  • Annie

    I’d say to Mr. Clifton that there are a few on the right and just as many on the left who don’t know the history behind our founding documents. Does anyone really concern themselves with the beliefs of Mr. Francis Bellamy? Lack of knowledge about what transpired during the 330+ years of our country’s history is not endemic to the right. It seems to me, that Mr. Clifton does exactly what Mr. Obama does: incite, incite, incite, incite, attempt to stir the post. When will people learn that no one has the market cornered on ignorance, just as no man has the market cornered on wisdom; and continually trying to point out flaws in someone else, only says, “I’M PERFECT.” And we all know that there is no perfect human being. When will they begin to THINK FOR THEMSELVES and stop relying on the drivel that Mr. Clifton pens regularly, to be be the Word incarnate?

    • NoCrossNoCrescent

      Except that no one here is claiming to be “perfect”, or that the Right has a monopoly on ignorance. Those are both straw man attacks. It is those on the Right though, that claim to know history, and use it to undercut one of our most valued traditions: that the government is there is to represent EVERYONE, not just followers of a particular faith. Those who are making those claims are the ones doing the incitement and stirring of the pot, not the President or Allen Clifton.

      • ……”It is those on the Right though, that claim to know history, and use it to undercut one of our most valued traditions: that the government is there is to represent EVERYONE, not just followers of a particular faith.” ……. This is the point that I made in my reply to Annie, above.

    • lindylou

      I get it … whenever someone on the “right” finds themselves unable to really debate something, they sidestep and declare that the issue is a non-issue. Therefore, Rev. Bellamy’s beliefs are unimportant. Correct, we are not debating Bellamy’s socialism except to poke it in the eye of the Michelle Bachmans of the country. What is being pointed out is that the Pledge of Allegiance is was not written on a stone at the top of a mountain in 1776 by the finger of GOD.

    • winehead

      Speaking of imperfection,
      Annie, from whence did you pull the “330+ years of our country’s history”? Jamestown, Mass. Bay, Declaration of Independence, Constitutional Convention: nothing adds up to 330+ years.

      • JJ

        Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607

      • 2013-1607=406.

      • Really?

        Is not 406 equivalent to “330+ years of our country’s history”? Duh…

      • Wouldn’t saying “400+ years” be a bit more precise? 330 is such an odd number to be coming up with, ‘sall. Wasn’t sure what the reasoning was behind it.

  • That’s enough! Stop all of this nonsense. It does not matter when how it was written what matters is what we believe. I grew up pledging that and so will my child. I believe in my country and God and no one will change that

    • M mayfield

      Just who do you think you are Amy? This is a free country and debate is a healthy way to express oneself. If you dont like whats written, YOU stop…

    • Aldo

      Or you could just stick your fingers in your ears and yell…NAH, NAH, NAH I CAN’T HEAR YOU! NAH, NAH, NAH…..either are about equivalent on the maturity scale….

      • Yallarecrazy

        Most 3-year olds don’t have all that much patriotism towards their country. Just sayin’

    • WE’ll stop harping when you move into the real, practice world. It’s not that hard, just try to remember that while your opinion counts, so does everybody elses. If this were written to please you, would you have said anything? I think not, teabagger.

    • You’re free to do that. Just please remember that it’s a relatively recent addition to our country, and not part of our founding mythos. But personally, I’d argue that it does matter HOW it was written, and that’s the core of my personal objections – the change was made as part of the Red Scare and the associated witch hunt. That little change is tarnished by an association with some of our less proud moments, when we compromised our ideals out of fear.

      • JJ

        Okay Michael, name those “…less proud moments, when we compromised our ideals out of fear.”

      • illmunkeys

        Really? The Japanese internment post the Pearl Harbor bombing? How about this: just google Red Scare. There’s lots of examples.

      • Really?

        Yeah, “God” = “Red Scare”. Paranoid?

      • Google “McCarthyism”

      • Really?

        Yeah, “God” = McCarthyism

      • Those “less proud moments” were the Red Scares of the Late ’40s and ’50s, and the rise and fall of Joseph McCarthy.

      • tellitlikeitie

        I can name it in one word…WAR!

    • Yes some one can change it. We can! There are plenty of people who wish it to be changed. Your child may grow up with it being different than what you grew up with. Just the same as I grew up with a different one than my parents did. God is for church only, not for our government.

    • Qwertyy650

      Poor kid…

    • phukk rightwing trash

      a person is what he DOES,,,,NOT what he/she believes

      • A person does what he/she believes and those beliefs include moral and ethical values that most definitely shape what he/she does.

    • I believe in my country, but there is no ‘god’.

      • Psalms 14:1 and Psalms 53: read, “The fool says in his heart there is no God.” This “fool” is not an uneducated person it refers to a very smart but immoral person who deny God. I wish you a good day. Peace Love and Joy…d

      • 1 Timothy 2:12
        12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet.
        1 Timothy 2:12 Or over her husband
        By your own book, you need to be silent.

        Do I need to point out the bible also approves of rape of women?

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        Yes, and Romans 1:25 says all of you jesus freaks are going to hell for following a son of god rather than his father.

      • Ann Watkins

        Its fine you don’t believe .don’t disrespect those of use that do believe in God, and that does not mean I can not believe in science. I’m Not a Jesus freak I just believe different then u as for the approval of rape of women from the bible . the bible was interpreted by man many words did not have clear translation, everybody that reads the bible comes away with their own interpretation although there are common threads . If that is what you got from that verse I am truly sorry for you.

    • I can say with some degree of certainty that your child very likely will not, and if you insure that they do regardless, then very possibly your child is going to hate you for it. Even if you isolate them from EVERYTHING, like my parents did to me, they’ll have to meet the real world sometime, and you’re not doing them any favours.

    • People that believe in God shouldn’t be allowed to procreate or at the very least..be prevented from spreading their filth down the generations.

    • I’m glad you’re happy with your beliefs. No one is asking you to abandon those beliefs. The point of this post is to point out that making ANY religious-based laws are contrary to The U.S. Constitution, yet, these people and many like them keep trying to champion their cause using The U.S Constitution as the basis for their proposals when, in reality, their proposals are Bible-based. Name some theocracies that either do not have severe human rights violations or are a positive member of the world community. That’s a pretty difficult task. One of the great strengths of The U.S., and one of which I am most proud, is that we’re allowed, by law, to HAVE different beliefs. It becomes VERY dangerous when people in power forget this.

    • bob

      thats fine but you cant force others to believe it either. think thats the point here, no1 stoping you from believing but seems others are wanting it to be a law that we all believe in ones lies or beliefs.

    • Yallarecrazy

      Good for you for standing up for it!

  • rjw918

    >>Then let’s not forget that the only reference to religion in our Bill of Rights is in our First Amendment, which states:

    Actually there is another reference, in Article VI: “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    • So there are 2 places where religion is mentioned, but NO place mentioning christianity.

  • JJ

    Our Pledge of Allegiance and the Myth of “One Nation Under God” So, A. Clifton, how would YOU have it? “One Nation Under…”?

    • “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

      There, fixed it for you. Return to the pre-“God” text.

      • JJ

        Okay Michael. Now, tell me why.

      • PicnicKing

        Simply because it is very possible to be a good American, and to be loyal to this country and the flag it represents, and be an athiest. Christians can be loyal Americans. Wiccans can be loyal Americans. Muslims can be loyal Americans. etc.

      • JJ

        Very true Christian. And so, should we practice exclusion in everything we do in America? If we never reference “God” anywhere, should we also not EVER refer to individual differences regarding race, sexual orientation; opinions on abortion, the environment, politics etc.? Where do the exclusions end?

      • Y’all are so missing the point – the point is not that things are being excluded, it is that things were, in the past, *intruded* in places that the founding fathers never intended religion to be, and they did not want ‘God’ to be referenced anywhere IN AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENTAL CAPACITY in order to prevent Government from ever having to pass judgement on what kind of religions or beliefs should be official. They didn’t want secular government, which provided basic governing of everyday things for people of many faiths, to be muddied up by having to draw lines on matters that have proven contentious even within any given religion, thereby CAUSING exclusions and persecutions of anyone who didn’t fall in line. Basically, they recognised that separation of church and state is as much protection for the church as the state, but it protects each from the other, because THEY ARE DIFFERENT THINGS, and historically, whenever that has not been held to, it has led to horrific things being practiced in the name of religion, because the secular government then needed the religion to justify anything it wanted to do, and both sides were corrupted.

      • JJ

        And has including the word “God” in the Pledge of Allegiance led to ANY of the events you wrote about above? Seems like you are referring more to human rights abuses in China or the former USSR than anything that has occurred in the name of “God” and religion here in America.

      • The KKK claimed to have done alot of bad stuff “in the name of God”. The KKK are to Christianity, what Al’Quida is to Islam. The KKK are nothing more than terrorists, acting under the flag of Christianity.

      • Really?

        Bad example Michael! Equating the KKK with the fundamentals of Christianity is like saying Hitler was Jewish.

      • Whether it did or not doesn’t matter. The point is, because of separation of church and state, it shouldn’t be there.
        Just because “God” is not mentioned does not mean you’re oppressed or excluded.

      • Really?

        Really? So when the self-centered atheists cry about the white crosses along our roadways that are there ONLY to HONOR our fallen police officers, and then sue the state until the crosses are taken down; that is not exclusion?

      • Why can’t you use a simple flower arrangement (real or plastic) instead of a white cross? It would accomplish the same thing.

        No, you just HAVE to have a white cross. An overtly religious symbol on a public (read: government) roadway.

      • I am not, for the most part, talking about things that have occurred ‘here in America’ – yet. I am talking about HISTORY. Many, many, many other cultures and countries over time. I am talking about the way that official state religions always end up being corrupted by the state, and vice versa. I am talking about every holy war that has ever been, and also every persecution and injustice for the sake of religion – any religion – that has ever been dealt out to anyone by any official governing body, and there have been SO MANY. Every corner of the world, from time immemorial, it has happened over and over again. The idea of religion NOT being tied to the state, of some sort of belief system not being recognised as ‘official’, is anthropologically speaking fairly recent. To have it be anything like common is *very* recent. The lack of such separation may not always have led to atrocity, but it has always led to corruption, injustice, and blind prejudice, with many innocents hurt along the way. No offense, but you sound like a very ignorant person.

      • This is the best explanation for the separation of church and state I have ever heard.

      • Haha, thank you! It is one of my personal thorn in the side issues, makes me crazy when people misrepresent it. 🙂

      • You said it!

      • “one nation, under God…”

        Implies that God is only looking out for YOUR country. And ignores the other 200 or so countries in the world. Which is blatantly wrong if you believe in that sort-of thing, since “God loves everyone”.

      • Really?

        Really? How do you conclude that “one nation, under God…” means absolute exclusivity to the U.S. and NO ONE else? Yes, God DOES love everyone, even those that twist His words for their own self-preservation.

    • In the original, there was no “under” phrase, but you’re missing the point. Our nation was not founded on any one, particular faith. Quite the contrary, the Founding Fathers went to great lengths to ensure that followers of any and all faiths, religions, or lack thereof would be allowed to live their lives and not suffer discrimination for it. The intent of the article is to point out that these people are using various false bases to support their arguments. When a falsehood is continually spouted to the public by public figures, then, eventually, many people begin to believe them.
      If they want to champion their causes, then fine. That is their right, just use actual facts, not falsehoods.

      • Really?

        “When a falsehood is continually spouted to the public by public figures, then, eventually, many people begin to believe them.”

        You mean, like when Hillary Clinton (and others) lied about Benghazi?

      • 1) We’re not talking about Benghazi; and 2) It’s about on par with the “birther” and “truther” nonsense.

      • Really?

        Yeah, Clinton and the socialist administration are not talking about Benghazi either. I wonder why?

      • See No. 2. There’s no “there” there.

      • If you were trying to throw away you’re credibility you did a great job.

  • WorldJazz59

    Proud to have sat for the Pledge of Allegiance every day as a kid in high school as a protest against the Vietnam War! (and really did marry a Russian)

    • M

      I also refuse to stand every day! Cheers

      • Yallarecrazy

        You two should move to another country if you don’t like it here. Otherwise, why not pledge your allegiance to your own country?

      • Ryan

        Luckily, our country includes the freedom to disagree peacefully with the actions of any particular administration. If you don’t like that, perhaps YOU should move to another country?

      • Why do you hate our freedoms, Mr. Crazy?

      • Only totalitarian societies force their citizens to recite loyalty oaths.

      • Wolfmist

        I’ve had 2 kids who didn’t want to stand for the pledge for various reasons in high school and with both of them, I’ve been called into the school and had to go through the entire argument about freedom and free speech in our public schools. One of my kids is in the choir and each semester they have religious Christian music to sing in a public school. I don’t object to the music because one thing Christians did to right was to create some of the most beautiful music for the voice. One thing I do object to is having a homeroom teacher to has to say a prayer every morning. In public school. In a class with kids who are Muslim, Athiest, Agnostic, Buddhist as well as Christian. She’s been doing it forever. The kids like her so nobody complains. She is a nice lady and has been good to my child who has been in her homeroom for 3 years now…. but that bugs me.

      • tellitlikeitis

        Resiting our oath is a choice each of us have…it is NOT forced! Is not that the true definition of “freedom?”

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        You obviously have never heard of the kids that were punished for not standing and reciting that god garbage.

  • I already knew this and have preached it for some time. It does no good, the freakbaggers only hear what they want to, and it has NOTHING to do with truth or history, just their narrative of what they want.

    • Yallarecrazy

      Oh? And how do evolutionists not fit this same description? How did the Big Bang happen when matter cannot be created or destroyed? How did the 1:10^14000-something chance of an organism being created without help happen and just happen to make a creature that could reproduce before it died if scientist have only created one of the many amino acids needed for life? And the scientists had to have a sealed laboratory with all of the right equipment to do it. AND it didn’t last more than half a second. You seem to have a lot of faith for an atheist, because you couldn’t believe all of this garbage without it.

      • Holy bleep, where to begin. How does one even attempt to address such abysmal ignorance?

        In the first place, evolution, which is defined simply as a change in the genetic makeup of a reproducing population over time, is an observed and documented fact. It doesn’t require belief. The evidence speaks for itself. The *theory* of evolution, which, I suspect is what you actually mean, is merely the best guess explanation of the driving mechanisms behind the observed fact, based on currently available data, and as such is subject to revision as new and better information becomes available. The theory, therefore, is open to debate. The fact is not. If there were no observed, documented *fact* of evolution, there’d be no need for a theory to explain it. If creationists have a scientifically testable alternative theory that explains what we observe as well or better than the currently accepted one, we’d love to see it. But bear in mind that the operative phrase here is ‘scientifically testable.’ “Goddidit” won’t cut it.

        As for your “impossible odds” of an organism being created without help – well, that’s just an arbitrary figure someone pulled out of his arse. And there’s no evidence that any organism was “created” to begin with. Oh, and Sport … experiments from Miller-Urey on have generated veritable soups of amino acids, not just one, and they’ve lasted considerably longer than half a second. And of course the scientists needed a sealed system to perform the experiments. It would be rather difficult to recreate the conditions present on the early earth in your back yard, now, wouldn’t it?

        But to address the issue of probabilities, it’s true that it would be extremely unlikely that life could have arisen without outside intervention .. IF the earth was only as old as creationists believe it is. But in reality, it’s far older. Almost unimaginably old, in fact, and given enough time, even the most unlikely event becomes a virtual certainty. In any case, it’s pretty silly to argue probabilities after the fact, don’t you think? If something has already happened, then no matter what the *theoretical* probability may be, the *actual* probability is 1.

        By the way, it may interest you to know that the theory of evolution, which has itself “evolved” considerably since Darwin’s day – in fact, these days it’s properly known as the Modern Synthesis, not the ToE – does not address the question of how life appeared on Earth to begin with, but only with how life forms change and develop over time. How life first appeared, whether by divine intervention or by purely natural means, is irrelevant to the question of whether or not evolution occurs. Your Bible says no. The facts say yes. And when fact contradicts belief, it isn’t the fact that’s wrong.

        Lastly, the Big Bang – this was actually a derogatory term coined by astronomer Fred Hoyle, who subscribed to the older “steady state” theory, and was adopted by most cosmologists more or less as a dig at Hoyle, who was regarded by most of his colleagues as rather eccentric.

        Cosmology isn’t my field, so I can’t be too specific here, but suffice it to say that no matter was actually created or destroyed during the Big Bang. On the quantum level, matter is just another manifestation of energy. Everything you see around you is, on the subatomic level, composed of nothing but infinitesimally tiny electrical charges that, in the three-dimensional space we occupy, act like solid particles. The Big Bang doesn’t violate any physical laws, because, as noted, nothing was actually created or destroyed. Energy was merely altered in form.

        Yes, science, especially quantum physics, can at times be annoyingly counterintuitive – but it’s testable, repeatable, based on real-world data and explains what we observe far better than anything your side has to offer. And it has something going for it that no religion ever had or ever will have. A little thing called evidence.

        If you want to avoid looking like a complete idiot in the future, don’t get your science info from Ken Hamm and Duane Gish. Get it from real scientists.

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        There is also the insanity that an organism anywhere can auto-generate into the most powerful thing ever they call god, coming from nothing and suddenly it thinks it can create other universes. The depths of the mental disconnect from realty is astounding.

      • Jamie

        You sir just made my day. A thousand cookies for you!

      • John

        You actually contributed nothing to this conversation besides some minor semantic issues. You’re not so high and mighty. You’re also an idiot if you believe because I flipped a coin and it landed heads, means it had a probability of 1. A third grader knows this (and probably more cosmology than you) since your physics is off. I actually lol’d really hard when you said “tiny electrical charges” LOL. As if a third grader doesn’t know we are surrounded by atoms! I’m glad you have the scientific knowledge of a third grader, but a better question would be “Can you write like a fourth grader?” Because this is the least succinct paragraph I’ve ever read. You said nothing one wouldn’t know already and then you had the nerve to deride him? You know who was smart? The catholic priest who came up with the Big Bang. DO you know who is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual reject high school dropout gas station employee? YOU! Just thought I’d clear up a few things so people don’t mistake you for an intellectual 🙂 (Not the brightest people on this forum).

      • John Baker

        Hey, gang, John knows how to use Google.

      • LOLOL

        Read this very slowly you nutjob. Evolution has been proven.

      • I believe that is probably too much to ask for. Some words are far too hard to swallow.

      • tellitlikeitis

        Not so true…it’s just an assumption of proof!

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        No matter how much you kick and scream as you deny it, the evolution facts are everywhere.

      • Be careful; evolution has not been “proven”, but it is generally accepted as being right. It’s still a theory, but maybe somewhere down the line there will be something that is better at explaining the existence of out modern living critters, us included. Even now we’re incorporating the Neanderthal into our genetic pool, for instance. Ten years ago that was heretical.

      • Rett

        Wrong. Evolution is proven and observable in everyday life.

      • The best thing about science is it’s true whether you choose to believe it or not.

      • Shawn

        and it’s evolutionary in itself. Science has no agenda except to explain more as we know more. Scientists in 50 years will discover more than we know now, but that is welcomed. I wish Religion were as adaptable. It isn’t absolute, as they obviously pick and choose which sins and morals they live by, but it’s a crutch they use for oppression of those who don’t follow their personal, socially-driven moral code.

      • langranny

        People say that about God too. Fortunately with science, if you work hard and do research, eventually your will prove or disprove your hypothesis… (unlike god which still hasn’t been proven one way or the other after thousands of years)

      • John

        Are Newtonian Mechanics (thought for hundreds of years to be incontrovertibly correct) true? Yes it is true, but only in its scope: it is not perfect and is deconstructed in QM’s. SO I think you need to go back to school.

  • Christian Anderson

    Fact: God has nothing to do with religion. Even Jesus did not use the word, nor was he head of a church. Peter, his apostle was charged with being the foundation of the “church.” Religion was created by man.

    • So was God.

      • John

        God —> Man
        Man —> God?

        John Baker you trans looking neanderthal, these two things cannot be true. As God created man, and that is the end.

      • John Baker

        It’s nice to see how you good Christians always argue your points logically and rationally without resorting to playground insults.

  • puddinhead

    Whenever I hear someone say the country was founded on Christian principles, I say, “Yes, but we progressed. We abolished slavery and gave women rights, including the right to vote.”

    • this is true because why?

      Really, bud? Those only were Christian values because of the CULTURE these people had been raised in, not because that is what Christians always do.

      • Ryan

        and, by extension, the hatred of taxes and homophobia and racism are only Christian values NOW because of the nonsense culture that you guys perpetuate. Here’s a hint: Jesus will tell you what Christian values are in the Bible. They include: feeding the poor, tending the sick, valuing the elderly, peaceful and loving coexistence with our neighbors and enemies. You know, DEMOCRATIC values.

      • LIBERAL values. I agree with everything you said, except that “democrat” is a party affiliation. Liberalism is a philosophy. 🙂 Jesus was an extremely progressive, activist liberal. And most Christians today don’t realize that.

      • Ummm… no. “Democrat” IS a party affiliation… However, what was said was “Democratic.”

        dem·o·crat·ic [dem-uh-krat-ik]

        1. pertaining to or of the nature of democracy or a democracy.
        2. pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all: democratic treatment.
        3. advocating or upholding democracy.
        4. ( initial capital letter ) Politics.
        a. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Democratic party.
        b. of, pertaining to, or belonging to the Democratic-Republican party.

        DEMOCRATIC is absolutely correct… Remember folks, dictionaries are your friend…. SO is reading…

      • langranny

        yep, Jesus was a Jewish, Liberal hippie…

      • James

        Though be careful what you consider “liberal” or “progressive” values- eugenics was once the jewel of LIBERAL values- with it we saw the forced sterilization of the mentally ill. Liberals also played a large part in the establishment of Jim Crow laws to prevent the mixing of the races. And many Christians today support feeding the sick, clothing the needy, and valuing the elderly- they just don’t want their government to do it- they want their churches to do it (esp. since their government cannot help share the Gospel along with aid).

      • langranny

        and paying your taxes too…

    • JohnNFlorida

      IF the United States was ‘Founded on Christian Values’ why is there no mention in any of the Founding Documents, including the Declaration, of the name ‘Jesus’?

      Were they incapable of printing it?

      Was printing it outlawed?
      OR was it because the Founders KNEW how promoting a Theocracy would never give birth to the new nation?

      They promoted a Secular Nation for good reason. Christian Religion in the middle 1700s was much more divisive than it is today. As soon as they opened that door, the Revolution would have died. The lessons of Anglican England excoriating Catholic England weren’t that far in the past. Catholics and Protestants were and are still battling in the islands of the United Kingdom.

      New England’s Puritans had no use for South Carlina’s Anglicans and neither cared SPIT for Maryland’s Catholics. Maryland, where you could be put to death for failing to acknowledge Mother Mary as the Intercessor in prayer to God.

      The Quakers of Pennsylvania KNEW all the others were going to Hell for not listening to the Common Sense of their Theology.

      ONE word by Jefferson or anyone else, even about Jesus, would have torn the Revolution asunder.

      • becasue jesus is make belive, just like benjamin ghazi, they are fictional characters

      • Sarah G.

        Jesus is a translation of Joshua. I’m pretty sure you can’t say that no one named (any translation of) Joshua existed at that time. Maybe you can say that he wasn’t the son of God or didn’t perform miracles, but not that a guy named Joshua was make believe.

      • James

        Actually, it was much simpler than that- a national religion would need to be supported by taxes- and people at that time did not tend to like religious taxes. Additionally, a national church would be in direct competition of the already-established, official state churches.

    • meatwad_SSuppet

      The lies that we were founded on christian values just shows you how easy it is for “christians” to be a false witness to ‘the facts’. The treaty of Tripoli proves they are LIARS. And they are proud to be lying for jesus.

      • James

        The Treaty of Tripoli only stated that the US had no NATIONAL established religion. At that time, the states had official, established religions of their own and such business was better run by the states- why have a national religion too? (And since when do we look to our politicians to be truthful- one cannot condemn a whole religion on the basis of a few followers- or do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists because of a few radicals?)

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        I do not believe that all muslims are terrorists because of a few real zionnazi terrorists claim they are.

    • langranny

      and for the most part, we’ve stopped stoning people for committing adultery…

    • Kevin Carroll

      That’s just ignorant.

  • weslen1

    Yes! And while we are being reminded of this truth, here’s another.
    The song “America The Beautiful” as originally written includes a line that goes:
    “Til private gain no longer stains the banner of the free!”

    Too bad someone didn’t remind Mittens of this line when he so badly sang of the purple mountains majesty he and his whole party would love to blow up and the amber waves of grain they would allow Monsanto and the frackers to destroy and the shining seas they’d love to turn into one huge oil slick, in order to pad that private gain in their Cayman bank accounts.

    • Yen

      Go Get them Weslen1!!! Also Lets Take Down Monsanto At The Same Time!!! The Little Bastards Messing With Our Food And Giving Us Cancer!!!

  • Ron

    Gee you are smart. Thank you for teaching me. So you’d prefer a country not founded on God. You can have it. You win! Feel better?

    • Darryl Hamlin

      “America is not, in any sense, a Christian nation”. That’s a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams, and ratified by a Senate that still contained several founding fathers. We have a country not founded on God, it’s called the United States.

  • Yeah, the phrase “under God” was added during the cold war because the Soviets suppressed any religion. Everyone seems to conveniently ‘forget’ that fact. Of course, people who want to manipulate and control others often attempt to edit history.

    • Yallarecrazy

      Evolutionists seem to constantly ‘forget’ scientific laws that they themselves created and said were always true! Big Bang-First Law of Thermodynamics ‘matter cannot be created or destroyed’; life origins- Law of Biogenises ‘living organisms always come from living organisms’; progressive evolution- Second Law of Thermodynamics, ‘disorder in a system increases’ So who is it that’s forgetting facts to edit history?

      • Son, if your posts here are anything to go by, you probably wouldn’t recognize a fact if it was rammed up your arse with a cattle prod.

      • forgive me for being ignorant, because i can never understand any of your never-ending posts.

      • Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang. Also matter and energy are interchangeable. The second law of thermodynamics refers to a closed system not a universe. And as for the last one pic up a god damn book. Stop using evolution to disprove science it was never meant to awnser. The big bang and how life began are two different displaces of science you dumb ass. If this is how you understand science it’s a wonder your able to even function.

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        Besides, there is a growing consensus that the big bang is bunk. In other words, the “big bang” theory is blowing up.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        [citation needed]

      • meatwad_SSuppet

        You mean a Sagan script or,,, how about the problem So how can a quasar on this side of a close proximity galaxy have a higher red shift than the galaxy it is in front of?? The flawed red shift theory with Quasars and the red shift that proclaims, through the flawed reverse time line, bringing it to a “big bang” central position. Clue: Red shift is the age of the object, not distance or rate of speed moving away from our position.

        Plasma cosmology pal,,, look into it and the “steady state” universe.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        The Steady State universe theory has been obsolete since the discovery of Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation in 1965, which would not have occurred with a steady-state universe.. Quoting a theory proven wrong nearly 50 years ago shows how little you actually know about science.

        Yes, there are problems within Big Bang Theory, like the issue of what the curvature of the universe is, but those are being examined with clarifications of Big Bang, not with replacements.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        Read a real physics book about Thermodynamics. It says dick-all about “disorder”, it talks about entropy, which has a specialized scientific definitions, which is a measure of the specific ways in which a system can be rearranged. As well, the Earth is not a closed system (which is what Thermodynamics refers to) thanks to this obscure thing called THE SUN.

        Next, Big Bang doesn’t violate the First Law, because the Big Bang theory states that the universe started as a singularity of infinite density and temperature (a singularity is a volume-less mass). So all the mass that would later make up the universe was already there, it just blew outward.

      • Rett

        Yallarecrazy…you are an idiot. The Big Bang theory says nothing about creating matter, only changing its form.

    • Funny, Stalin brought back the Russian Orthodox Church and opened the Russian theological schools. But somehow they suppressed religion. Maybe you should read before you type.

      • Communism doesn’t allow religion.

        The quote was added to distinguish from the godless commies…

  • I thought there was not a comma before “under God” At least that is what I taught in the 4th grade.. granted years and YEARS ago.

  • liberty and justice for all is a great slogan but never happened here

  • So this nation wasn’t founded on Christian principles what was it founded on? The article never answers the question. Probably because the fact is that one of the major driving forces for independence from England was to be free from the control of the major Christian religions of the day exerted over the people. Church and state became too intertwined and religion became a struggle for power. Because of that, we wanted to have our own freedom of religion, and so we founded a protestant nation. You know, protestant as in “protest”, as in against the mega churches in England.

    I also think it’s interesting that this article talks about how the only reference made about religion is the establishment clause in the bill of rights. The article fails to notice that this clause appears as the FIRST amendment. Numerically speaking, it was the first thing on the minds of the men who wrote the bill of rights, and subsequently it must have been a pretty important thing to them. It clearly made it illegal for another Church of England to be created, which again, falls within the protestant ideals that this nation was founded on. The point here is that you don’t have to like religion, but don’t try to skew the past in order to lend strength to your argument. If your argument isn’t valid without rewriting the past, then maybe you should reevaluate your position on the matter.

  • M

    “The more they display their ignorance of our history, of reality and prove that they would rather believe a lie than know the truth.”… Which is??

  • on April 30, 1789 George Washington was inaugurated s this nation’s first president in Federal Hall in NYC. Immediately after this, President Washington and all the members of Congress walked to St. Paul’s chapel where the President said, “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself hath ordained.” Yep, that’s right the entire federal government walked into a Christian church and the President linked out nation’s prosperity to being in God’s favor providing we follow his rules, wishes. Yes, we are a nation based on Christian values. You do not have to be a Christian. Nonetheless, our country is based on it….There is much out there that undoes your short-sidedness….

  • Speakthetruth

    Ok your facts my be correct yet your over all story is so far from the truth, if you wish to spout facts tell them all the facts not just the ones you want them to hear. This country was founded and settled by whom? The people whom drafted and signed our constitution were? Im going to stop here as i dont wish to make this a religious debate but just to show that when you spout facts it would be wise to not cherry pick just the ones you want to support you left wing ideals.

    • I agree. Telling “facts” should include the whole story, not just the parts you like.

      Remember that, all you 2nd Amendment loving gun nuts. “A well regulated…”

  • Proof that if you restate a lie long enough, loud enough and often enough, it becomes “truth.” And since when does Christianity have exclusive rights to “God?”

  • IBIG

    I’m trying to figure out just what the point is here? The author states, “You often hear many on the right claim that our country was founded on Christianity. They’ll use our Pledge of Allegiance as “proof” that this nation was founded as a Christian nation.” There is plenty of proof that this country was founded on Christianity—-we don’t need to point to the POA to find it. All you have to do is take a look at our founding fathers and their beliefs and principals. They were bible-believing Christians and used those Christian principles to form the early communities and eventually our Constitution. I don’t understand why so many people get upset when someone refers to God or Christians, or when they see a cross or symbol of Christianity. You are free to NOT believe, why can’t you let the believers alone? It’s not like it’s hurting anyone to mention God’s name, or to put a cross in the ground. What ever happened to live and let live????? Get a life people!!!

  • ho2cultcha

    additionally, one man decided that it was necessary to put ‘In God We Trust’ on our money, in case the country were destroyed and future archaeologists would mistake us for ‘heathens’. so rather than deal w/ his prejudice towards those he considered inferior, he chose in fear to cover his tracks. His name was Salmon P. Chase and i grew up down the road from his house in Cornish, NH.

  • Jeremy

    We may not have been founded as a Christian nation. But as the article says and the first amendment “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'” we were founded to have a freedom of religion. Or not to have a religion. So those people that attack people for having religion are in the wrong whether its Christian or not.

    • Darryl Hamlin

      Except no one is doing that. Nice strawman, though.

  • mooley

    Well i know this cuz it was changed when i was in grammer school. Most don’t want to hear this. But its true.

  • Motorhead89

    The founders were Christian most of America was during our founding. I recall the reason why we are here in the first place was to get away from religious persecution from the church of england. So to say that the nation wasn’t founded as a christian nation just because the pledge is wasn’t written by any of the men whose name is on The Constitution is a pretty weak argument. Further more the phrase “one nation” would have infuriated those men more so than the phrase “under god” because we were founded as a confederacy and were one up until the Civil War. Because of that pledging an allegiance to a nation and not your state would also infuriate those men.

    I’m not seeing the point of your argument anyway. Are you implying because of the false claims using the pledge as proof your opponents principles have no ground? You’d be wrong. Having a faith direct principle or not principle is principle what ever the reason to have it. And trying to shake the reason to have a certain principle like I said is weak at best.

    • Holy crap. History class failed you big time.

  • RichyBravo

    Who gives a shit.

  • This is why History is important.

  • Mikey

    “The more they display their ignorance of our history, of reality and
    prove that they would rather believe a lie than know the truth.” Well call it what you will, but from what I remember, this information is not standard curriculum in any public schools I went to. It should also be obvious that things taught to people their entire lives and over many generations as facts, would come as a shock when told they’re actually false. Agreed? I think this argument is rather trivial and is a lot of wasted energy on negative ‘in-fighting’ over who is right and who is wrong, with never a clear winner. However, I do know from experience, pissing contests always have clear winners. I remember growing up being told America was great because we accept everyone, religious or not. That here in America, whether your neighbor believe or not, you can freely believe in a religion, and you can freely believe in no religion. I just don’t understand why those who believe and those who don’t believe have to constantly fight over it. Who cares that they do or don’t believe? That’s them! Not you. What a very unimaginative waste of time and if you’re whole life you’re going to spend time arguing about theology, well that doesn’t sound like much fun at all and I’m going to have to find another friend to hangout with. xoxo. <3

  • Mike

    Seems to me if we get past the label “god” and respect others religion and spirtuality we may all be more comfortable expressing ourselves our religions and spirtuality and this to me would be a good thing. No one has a monopoly even webster!

    1capitalized: the supreme or ultimate reality: as

    a: the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

    bChristian Science: the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

    2: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically: one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

    3: a person or thing of supreme value

    4: a powerful ruler

  • Honest Ape

    Why is it Progressives are always trying to tear down God and Religion as part of their supposed “progress”? And what are we being “progressed” towards? Communism? Insanity? Anarchy? Seriously… were are you going to take us with your “progress”? Those are questions you dare not answer honestly.

  • CarrotTop

    Last Sentence of Lincoln’s Gettysburg address (1863):
    It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining
    before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to
    that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we
    here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that
    this nation, under GOD, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that
    government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not
    perish from the earth.

  • liberallivin’insindownindixie

    I am a liberal minded person living in the heart of conservative dixie. Let me just say that every.single.damn.thing that you have written I have had to restrain myself from jumping up and down and just plain clapping! Your approach is fantastic. Sarcastic but to the point. Keep on keepin on!

  • Don’t forget the Treaty of Tripoli!

  • MikeMike

    The problem with most Christians is that they do not know history, especially the history of faith in this country. The Baptist have never heard of Roger Williams, the founder of their denomination in the Americas, or read his THE BLOUDY TENENT OF
    PERSECUTION. They have no idea that their founder was a supporter of secularism. The same with John Leland, another founding father of their denomination, and another founding father of secularism. They are clueless.

    • Dissenter

      Most Christians ARE Christians because they are ignorant of what is in the Bible.

  • Don’t confuse the fools with facts. It only serves to make them irate over who is holding the President’s umbrella.

  • dissenter

    I don’t know why a nation founded on Christian principles would be such a bad thing. “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Matt. 7:12. After all, it it were applied consistently, our history would have been a lot less shameful. As Abe Lincoln observed, “Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.” Don’t want to be a slave? Don’t enslave your neighbor. Matt. 7:12. Any questions?

    As Chesterton quipped, Christianity “has never been tried.”

    • wiredpup

      If you want to live in a ‘Christian’ nation, move to Uganda. We don’t live in a theocracy here.

      • Dissenter

        That’s my point, pup. A truly Christian nation would not be a theocracy.

      • wiredpup

        That is what a theocracy is genius.

      • Dissenter

        Proper application of Christian principles would not yield a theocracy, moron.

        FWIW, idiot, I’m not a Christian.

      • wiredpup

        Gee I really hope your little rant helped you feel better. And I have no idea why you feel the need to tell what religion you may or not practice. I could really care less.

  • DMiami

    Republicans are the worst this country has to offer. Hypocrites, lairs. Because they do not like President Obama they are will to destroy this nation of ours. The use god name in vain on a regular bases.

  • We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    Creator eludes to god in this statement and the fact that religion which acknowledges god is in the bill of rights says different.
    What is the big issue of having under god in the pledge in the first place?
    Our founding fathers wanted us to have freedom and religion is one of them. Have any of you read the ten commandment? Most laws derive from them… Murder, theft, adultery all are mentioned as being against gods law and society has adopted them.

    • wiredpup

      Still doesnt say Christian.

      • I never said Christian many people pray to god that doesn’t make them all Christian. There are Hindus Buddhist Christians Muslims and many others. Why is your view so narrow? And why do you seem to have no tolerance of others?

      • wiredpup

        Tolerance is an I’ve used word.

      • You may use it but using it and practicing it are to different things.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        Yup, “Tolerance” == “Letting me impose my beliefs on the entire country”

        That’s exactly what the word means!

        (In case you couldn’t tell, I was being sarcastic about how the Christian Right uses the word, and how you appear to be using it.)

      • Charles Vincent

        Is anyone forcing yo.u to participate? Are they telling you that you will suffer some consequence for not participating? Stop being an idiot. Just like you don’t want others forcing you to hide your moral and ethical belief system so the same applies to people who like under god in the pledge

      • Darryl Hamlin

        Inserting God into the pledge is forcing Abrahaimic theism on people who don’t want it, as well as being presumptive that God would even bless this country where people have usurped Christianity to aid the rich. Not having any mention of a deity would be neutral with regards to religion.

        And even though it’s been ruled unconstitutional to require people, to require schoolchildren, to recite the pledge, plenty of schools still do it. I was threatened with after-school detention for not standing for the pledge in protest of Iraq back in 2003. So yes, the pledge is forced on people.

      • “Tolerance” == “Letting me impose my beliefs on the entire country”
        This statement of yours is factually incorrect.
        Tolerance is:

        a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one’s own; freedom from bigotry.
        a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one’s own.
        interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one’s own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.

        I am sorry you were treated poorly but that doesn’t make it right for you or the the government or anyone to force others who want to say the pledge into not doing so publicly because you/they don’t like it.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        One: You missed my sarcasm, even though it was thick enough to choke someone.
        Two: No one is even suggesting what you said in the last paragraph there, but nice strawman.

      • Two: No one is even suggesting what you said in the last paragraph there, but nice strawman.
        This statement is also factually incorrect. None of the schools here let children recite the pledge because it might offend someone like you. That’s not suggesting anything it’s forcing someone else’s belief on others.

        “Inserting God into the pledge is forcing Abrahaimic theism on people who don’t want it,”
        Many people pray to god. Some call him Allah, or Yahweh, or Buddha etcetera. God is a generic descriptor and means different things to different people

      • Darryl Hamlin

        No one’s disallowing the kids from saying it, they’re just not setting aside time anymore, which is a hugely different thing. It’s like saying barring a moment set aside in homeroom for prayer is the same thing as baring prayer by students.

        Meanwhile, you show an alarming lack of knowledge of religions. For one, Abrahaimic religions means Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, covering Yahweh and Allah there, which you implied to be counter-examples, and for two, Buddha is not worshiped as a deity in Buddhism. If you had wanted to make a factually correct argument against it, you could have pointed out that there are some forms of Hinduism that consider the various deities to be aspects of a single deity.

      • Not allowing a few moments is the exact same thing. It prevents them from doing it. Add or subtract any deity you wish my premise is the same god is a generic term. You would be correct if the pledge said one nation under Yahweh, or Allah, or what ever you wish to substitute but it isn’t there it’s god that lovely generic term. Your arguing semantics but I digress I should have omitted Buddhism.

      • Darryl Hamlin

        Except, if you read the text as written in the law that changed it, it’s not “god”, it’s “God”, which is definitively not generic.

      • Is god not capitalized in other belief systems?

      • Darryl Hamlin

        No, since monotheism is actually extremely rare. Capitalizing God in, say, the old Norse religion would make no sense, since there was Thor, Odin, Baldr, etc. Capitalizing God to refer to the sole deity is very much a thing only in monotheistic religions.

      • This sounds plausible. Although most religion now are monotheistic if I am not mistaken. I do not know of any group(s) that actively worship any Aztec, Babylonian, Greek, roman, Indian, Norse, or Persian gods which realistically only leaves us with monotheistic religion.

      • Ann Watkins

        Yes they are we are not allowed because it contain the phrase on nation under God

      • Infojunkie

        Personally I’m OK with people reciting the standard pledge; if that’s what they WANT to do. But I’d like equal time to recite my preferable pledge, too:

        “I pledge allegiance to the flag, but let’s be careful not to brag.
        We need to fix so many laws that still have fundamental flaws.
        We need to find fair judges, too.
        This pledge means we still have work to do.

        – Nan Aron, president, Alliance for Justice

        Or maybe I’ll go with a more Pagan-centric pledge to the Earth Mother. So, Chuck, are you still feeling tolerant?

  • Stan

    It should also be noted that the only mention of religion in the Constitution itself is this……..”The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several
    State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and
    of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;
    but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public
    Trust under the United States.”

  • As a Christian, I expect people who profess to be Christians to act like Christians. Do not lie, do not cheat, do not be greedy, do not be power hungry, Do not be prideful. Take care of the weak. Take care of the poor. Christians won’t destroy this country. The people who profess to be Christian in order to gain a power base for themselves will, though.

  • Mr. Smith

    Your talking about a group of people that don’t even know that the new testament of the bible wasn’t written till about 300 years after the death of Jesus (so that the contents couldn’t be repudiated) and was heavily edited and censored by rulers to say what they wanted it to say, not what was actually written. Yet they proclaim it as the true word of god. The same group of people that refuse to accept quantifiable fact, yet embrace conjecture, all the while living lives completely opposite to the teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings that they claim to embrace.

  • openlyblack

    “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god that you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

    Stephen Henry Roberts

  • I read that Bill Nye, The Science Guy, was giving a lecture for kids and parents recently in Texas. He was talking about the Solar System and happened to mentioned that our moon has no internal source of light, but that it glows in the night sky because it reflects the Sun’s rays from the other side of the Earth. People started booing and walking out. The science of the Moon’s glow apparently was not upheld by some obscure Old Testament verse. As she walked out, one lady was heard to scream out, ” We believe in God.” This is the constituency that wants to run the country.

  • You mean to tell me JESUS was NOT one of the original signers of the Deceleration of Independence? LIES!!!!!!!!!!

  • meatwad_SSuppet

    If you want some finer details on the origin and the alterations to it over the years, watch this video on youtube, it is part one of two.


  • meatwad_SSuppet

    The original pledge of allegiance was written to help sell US Old Glory flags to school rooms.

  • Godisthefinaljudge

    When a nation under God becomes a nation without God that nation goes under. We’re going under and if we don’t bring God back soon we aren’t going to be a nation at all anymore.

    • So we’ve only been a “nation under God” since 1954?

      That’s when those two words were added to the Pledge of Allegiance.

      (I actually wish we’d go back to the first Pledge, as written by Francis Bellamy in 1892. His original statement read, ‘I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.’)

      Also, I hardly think God would choose this nation for his/her own, steeped as our history is in war, slavery and genocide.

      • Godisthefinaljudge

        God chose the nation of Israel centuries ago and that is where He will return.

      • Well, if you think Israel is God’s chosen nation then why are you worrying about the United States being without God? You’re contradicting yourself.

      • Godisthefinaljudge

        Because I live in the United States and am concerned about what is happening to my country. I for one plan on keeping God in everything and not letting anyone tell me that I can’t. God is everywhere but Israel is His chosen nation, that doesn’t mean He isn’t concerned about us too.

  • Inconvenient truth

    Never read the Declaration of Independence I see….

  • leesha1231

    Very true. Christianity had already quite thoroughly saturated Europe way before the first white settlers ran away from them to start life living how they wanted. Those founding fathers were absolutely not Christians! Google the “Hellfire Club” and find out who was a prominent member of that group and exactly how many dead bodies were found buried on his former property.

  • Zorba

    The first statement of separation of Church and State is to be found in the preamble of the Declaration of Independence. It states, “When in the course of human events”. It does not appeal to God, but to people. This is in direct defiance of the ‘Divine Right of Kings’, where the king got his power from the church. The preamble sets the principle that the people decide who shall rule them. Not God. It separates God from government.

  • Brandon

    I don’t knock anyone for believing in anything. Regardless of what I think. I myself am an atheist, but I also believe that “under god” does not belong in the pledge of allegiance. Separation of church and state? What ever happened to that…

  • JoeB

    The reason people fled to this land in the first place was religious persecution. So the founders held that as important to not restrict the practice of religion at all. The Declaration of Independence has references to “God” and the “Creator” right in the first paragraph. So actually yes this country was conceived by people who believed in a God but they did not tell you how to worship. So saying that this country was founded solely on Christianity is indeed incorrect. But saying that God was not considered by or founders is also incorrect. I am agnostic so this is purely me wanting to set some facts on the table.

  • hapahowle

    Hate gets you nowhere fast.

  • Bookwench

    I was in 7th grade when they added “Under God”, and I always hated it because it ruined the meaning for me. I still say the old pledge

  • Stephen McParlin

    It *may* be worth mentioning that the phrase ‘Under God’, does appear somewhere else, rather than in the US pledge of allegiance. It forms part of one of the loose translations of the Latin motto of the *Confederate* States of America: “Deo Vindice”. The phrase, like many of the memes associated with the religious right, originates in the Confederacy, rather than in the United States.

    As most of the draftees of the US Constitution were Freemasons, with a scattering of Deists among them, it is highly unlikely that such a sentiment would have been expressed at the time.

  • MJofSanFran

    The Founding Fathers of this Country were NOT Christians. They were Deists. That is why there is no mention of Christ in their founding documents. This was never intended to be a Christian Country, that is why the First Amendment states Freedom of Religion before Free Speech; Freedom of the Press, and the Right to Assemble and Petition for Redress of the Government. Dream it and/or scream it – that will not change it!!! History says otherwise.

  • Rachelle

    Unfortunately no President will ever restore the pledge or our paper money to what it was under the threat of being called ‘not Christian’ by the masses and vilified by the media as the same. My neighbors lawn just got covered in flamingos by a Christian Youth group with a huge sign saying so but if I put a plastic Snowman on their doorstep courtesy of their neighbors the Agnostics I’m sure there would be hell to pay.

  • me

    own Book teaches that they would rather believe the LIE! Sheeple is all
    they are! It’s just sad that the rest of us have to suffer because of
    it. I believe that they would crucify Christ all over again, in fact in a
    way they are! Look at the home…See More

  • katherine norton malek

    Another brilliant article full of fact. Thank you!!

    “….with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn”. I heard this recent addition at a Catholic organization gathering. The way they’re trying to put the life of zygotes & fetuses before the life & health of women by trying to foce them to carry dead fetuses to term, they should be truthful and just leave out “born”. Keep it feal. Pfft!!!

  • Jeremiah

    July 4, 1776: …to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them…they are endowed by their Creator….with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence…

  • Uku

    If maddog Maddow knew her history she would know that the Judeo-Christian belief structure provides the outline for our Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights. Unfortunately maddog is like most Liberals, totally ignorant of the real historic facts. She picks one isolated item, the Pledge of Allegiance, and shows how it evolved. The key phrase which stupid Liberals forget is this one from the 1st Amendment: “prohibiting the free exercise thereof;” This means all the prohibitions against manger scenes and references to one’s beliefs which are outlawed in many schools and other public places all violate the first amendment. The stupid follow like sheep…..

  • Jeremiah

    July 4, 1776: …to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God…they are endowed by their Creator…with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence.

  • John F N Doh

    unfortunately as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink.

  • bob reis

    actually the motto was added to the currency in 1953 on 1935 dated silver certificates, part of that mccarthyite wave of false piety

  • Phil A

    the only way to make a point with them is to ask where God is in the Constitution

  • James

    While the US was not founded on Christianity, Christian ethics, beliefs, and ideology (as well as “religion”) permeate the entire construct of the Federal, State, and Commonwealth Governments in the United States. As a nation founded, in no small part, from Christian minority groups seeking refuge from state-sponsored religious persecution. The push towards religious tolerance was largely to protect different Christian groups from each other and was not logically extended to Jews or Muslims until much, much later. (Even those colonies that tolerated dissenters usually required that they pay taxes to support the state church and prohibited them from voting or holding public office.) Until the Bill of Rights was ratified, many states still had “official” church left over from their days as colonies. (And much of the separation of church & state legislation was a result of groups attempting- and almost succeeding- at establishing/ continuing official State (or Commonwealth) churches (many people voted against them because they didn’t want to pay religion taxes). Virginia actually helped lead the way with the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (it was a dark time when Baptist ministers were often harassed, abused, etc. because they didn’t have an official license to preach-additionally, it didn’t extend towards acceptance of Native American beliefs). However, even the Bill of Right provisions did not really extend to the States/Commonwealths until the 14th Amendment. Currently, you could still call the US a “Christian Nation” if you base your observation on most survey results (which states that between 59-76% of Americans identify themselves as Christian). So, less that it is backed up by a core Christian dogma, and more that it is made up of Christians makes the US a “Christian Nation”.

    • James

      So- In summary- is the US founded on Christianity? It is hard to say for sure. Was it founded primarily by Christians and Deists? You bet. Are the Constitution/Declaration/Pledge credible sources for evidence of these views? Not exactly (though you can find ethic ideas tracing back to Christian philosophers… and also Greek/Roman, etc.)

    • Nualaan

      The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

      “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”

      There you have it straight from the “Founding Fathers”…

      • James

        Yes, that’s true- the USA is not; however, many of the States and Commonwealths were- AND- had their own official state religions (all Christian flavors of one sort or another) at the time. If you read carefully I never stated that the US- at the Federal level- was founded on Christianity- only that it played an important role. The last part where I state what you COULD use to justify the US as a “Christian Nation” is just simple statistics- similar to the way most people use majorities to describe things around them all the time.

  • Shane Shaw

    the pledge is a communist piece of propaganda. As for being a Christian Nation the laws and value system we live by are Judeo-Christian, there are more Christians in this country than any other religion (or non-religion) combined. While Christianity is not the “official” religion we are a Christian nation by default. Try and get elected President in this country and be anything other than Christian. Obama proved that by converting to Christianity for political convenience. Take that however you will….

    • Holly Baby Catkiss

      Separation of church and state. Don’t like it then get the fuck out.

  • Professor

    One thing is for sure. It was NOT founded based on Sharia law!

  • califcowgirl1955

    Our Country was created for Freedom of Religion, not just one religious group. Being religious does not make you spiritual, unless you practice what you preach.

  • Lee Miller

    The one great thing about the internet, you can tell anything you like. Throw some “facts” in you made up and people if they want will believe. Tell your lies, make fun of God. In the end you lose, not me! Funny when this country revered God it was great. Now it is going to hell in a hand basket!

    • Holly Baby Catkiss

      Oh yeah, because forcing your religion down everyone’s throats is so much better. Not. How about let everyone live their lives as they see fit and not make laws according to your Christian religion. LEAVE THEM ALONE!

  • sean

    I’m a conservative Christian, and I agree that religion should not be forced upon anyone. That would be the same as those nasty Muslims, whose ultimate goal is world domination through the spread of religion.

    • Sherri G

      And yet Christians don’t have the same goal….BullShit! “Missionary work” in every corner of the globe where they destroy cultures, convert the people from what Christians call “sinful paganism” and destroy entire countries (Ethiopia with the Catholics who won’t promote birth control and yet allows those people to have kids they can’t feed because its “God’s Will”….)….or the Native Americans who were stolen all the way until mid-20th century, forced to dress and behave like “good Christians” or be beaten, starved and killed for being “heathens”, forcing them to cut their hair and pray to a “God” they didn’t believe in or face Man’s punishment (and even today with White adoptions of NA children which leads to a loss of cultural beliefs and connections to their true heritage)…….YEAH, only the Muslims are the bad guys in this world…..geesh!

  • lindylou

    I have been sending this message for about two years now, just to stick it in the snoot of faux-Christians. Furthermore, the “under God” phrase was approved by a congress in thrall to McCarthy. And even further, thankfully, a proposal to swap the word “the” for “our” – flag was not approved.

  • Bobbo Byrnes

    And the whole “Under God” and “In God We Trust” was spearheaded by a campaign by the Knights of Columbus in the 1950’s.

  • Desertman50

    Another overlooked fact is that the pledge wasn’t formally adopted by Congress until 1942.

  • John Hoge

    Most of us know these things. The country was still “founded on Christianity,” more or less. Oh how times have changed.

    • grwurown

      It was not. As pointed here, nothing about the founding of this nation mentions Christianity. Nothing. It had and has nothing to do with our nation. Is being good to each other and not interfering in the life of others while pursueing your happiness, exclusively Christian? I certainly don’t think so.

  • Rick Myers

    Religion has no business in Government! 2 many different religions!

  • Bob Jones

    Dear Allen, I think an excellent follow up or a second part to this piece is necessary to explain why it is and should be a secular state as well as how the founders saw this as a way to protect rights and have justice for all starting from enlightenment philosophies, the virginia statutes for religious freedoms moving to the constitution and bill of rights.

  • Bibliophile

    These are self-serving cult Quacks, not Christians, who throw the Word around for their own sick purposes. There was nothing Christian in the theft of land, the Holocaust inflicted upon the Nature- worshipping Native Americans whose land this really still is…..

  • “So when these people proudly boast about our nation being a “Christian nation” or that we were a nation founded “under God,” remind them of these facts.”

    Since when did reactionary “Christians” care the least about facts that do not comport with their mythology?

  • balconesfalk

    The loudest defenders of the “under God” aspect of the pledge don’t know history, or care. That’s not important–oppression of others is the highest thing on the agenda. Do away with “Obamacare”, overturn Roe v. Wade, cut off food stamp monies, end Social Security as soon as they are able–the Republican party has gone mad. How Christian of them.

  • Louis

    its impossible to have any type of intelligent conversation with religious people. They are crazy, period. anyone that believes in religion is a nutbag, unable to think for themselves. I am not an atheist or agnostic. i am a realist. the correct answer is simple, NONE of us KNOW what happens when we die. Anyone that claims they do is a liar. period.

  • Susan Heart

    Let’s not forget that the God named is not necessarily the Christian God either. There are theists of many kinds.

    • Sherri G

      Yes!! Unfortunately, the “Christians” think that they have a patent on the word “God” and therefore any reference is ONLY to their “God”.

  • F. Woods

    I remember when I was 12 years old being marched out of my class with all my classmates into the auditorium of our school. With a serious, somber look on her face, our teacher told us we were going to learn a new version of the pledge of allegiance… adding the “under god” words. I remember the look of triumph and self-righteousness on her face as we said the pledge over and over until we got it right. Personally, I only wanted to get this over with before it infringed on our recess… a 12 year old really doesn’t give a shit about communism or how what we were doing would put a stake through the heart of the godless Soviet Union.

  • Mike Williams

    In regards to “In god we trust” on coinage: The phrase was added at the whim of the secretary of the treasury, and by law coins could have said anything the current treasurer wants (within reason) A coin could be minted that states “To infinity and beyond” and it be legal. The 50’s saw a huge shift in the political make up of the country ushering all kinds of faith based laws.
    In fact when Kennedy ran for office he was considered a damned catholic, by his opponents who claimed to be good christians.

  • Mike Williams

    In regards to “In god we trust” on coinage: The phrase was added at the whim of the secretary of the treasury, and by law coins could have said anything the current treasurer wants (within reason) A coin could be minted that states “To infinity and beyond” and it be legal. The 50’s saw a huge shift in the political make up of the country ushering all kinds of faith based laws.
    In fact when Kennedy ran for office he was considered a damned catholic, by his opponents who claimed to be good christians.

  • MiniMax

    Founders met at the Arlington Church in Boston to plot their Revolution. It is a Unitarian church.

  • deaninwaukesha

    Yawn…Oh, I’m sorry, did I do that out loud?

  • bubba grundy

    What kills me the most is that the people screaming about the pledge of allegiance don’t even say it anymore! How many adults walk into work and say the pledge of allegiance? How many people call a meeting and then say the pledge of allegiance? If it’s so bloody important, why don’t we all do it, everyday? Oh, yeah, that would be too much like communist indoctrination….

  • nuclearmothman

    Actually, the nation’s motto is the latin “e pluribus unam,” which means “from the many, one,” referring both to the states, and metaphorically, to the people of the nation.

  • nuclearmothman

    Actually, the nation’s motto is “e pluribus unum,” which is Latin for “from the many, one,” and it was on our currency long before “In God We Trust” was added.

  • Maryann Stensrude

    And your point is????

  • utah

    You made an error in your text of the pledge of allegiance. There is NO comma between “one nation” and “under God” although 99% of folks do pause there when reciting it.

  • Nick Bray

    Our nation is NOT a christian nation (we’re not a theocracy).

    But I hate your tone in this article. Not all conservatives believe that we’re a Christian Nation, or even believe in God at all. You seem to get the impression that free market, small government, fiscal responsibility, and tradition have something to do with believing in God.

    It doesn’t.

  • Jillian

    The most disturbing and revealing thing about secularists such as Clifton
    is that they are not content with arguing that America may have begun as an at
    least partly Christian society but has changed over time and ought to be a
    “secular nation” now. No. They insist, against all the evidence, that America
    was a “secular nation” from the start. They cannot allow for the mixed nature of
    America—substantively Christian, but with no established religion at the federal
    level. Their ideology requires that America ALWAYS have been undividedly
    secular. And the reason for this, I believe, is that they are waging a war
    against God and Christianity. They want Christianity and belief in the God of
    the Bible to be completely driven out of America’s public society, so that God
    and Christianity have zero public presence, zero place in American life and in
    the American identity. Therefore it’s not enough for them to secularize America
    in the present. They must, like Communists re-writing history, wipe out any
    notion that America was ever Christian.

    • Sam Brosenberg

      Of the colonists who came to this continent, many of them did so for religious reasons and to form religious communities. However neither the American Revolution, nor the United States of America that was founded in the wake of that revolution had ANYTHING whatsoever to do with religion, other than ensuring that the citizens of the new nation could worship freely, however they chose.

      If you think there is a war against Christianity, you’re an idiot. Nobody is telling you where to worship, what to worship, how to worship, or when to worship. Nobody is persecuting Christians (not in the US at least) or denying them social positions or services based on their religion. Christians are being told that they cannot mandate that EVERYONE’s children pray according to Christianity while in school. Christians are being told that they cannot mandate that THEIR beliefs about marriage be enshrined as civil law. Christians are being told that they cannot mandate that MY children have to learn THEIR mythology in science class.

      In short; Christians are being informed that they do not get to dictate how everyone else in the US acts, just because many of the people who first came to this continent were Christians.

      “Congress shall make now law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free expression thereof.”

      What laws have been passed prohibiting the free expression of Christianity? Just because we say you aren’t allowed to use federal tax dollars to indoctrinate our children with your beliefs, does not equate to persectuion. Go live with the Coptic Christians in Egypt, if you want to know what a War on Christianity feels like.

      • I wish I could marry this comment. Kudos, sir.

  • regressive rightwing trash

    obviously allen Clifton is a Kenyan socialist muslim homosexual secular communist with flatulent tendencies who knows NOTHING about FOX “news” and those regressive scumbags TRYING to usurp our great country by deceitfully adding such disgusting language as JESUS and other superstitions so we can all learn (??) to be white rightwing aging religious trash ,,,,,,

  • Yellow Dog Yankee

    Not only that, but no one says the Pledge correctly. It is “One nation under God, indivisible,….” not
    “One nation,
    under God,
    Indivisible, ….” It isn’t supposed to be an oral laundry list.

  • Not an idiot xian.

    We all have to make sure that everyone that can legally vote during the next election will be able to because the republican party and their conservative Supreme Court are taking away all of our voting rights and if they ever get into power again… They will make certain that no one except white christian men will be able to vote. And they will turn this country into a theocracy where anyone who is not white and christian enough, will be put in prison. It has already started when the Supreme Court said, we don’t need this voting rights amendment anymore, so they got rid of it and proved why we still need the voting rights amendment. They will create jobs, they will need people to build their prisons where they will put anyone who doesn’t agree with them. And then they will start attacking countries that aren’t christian enough and start World War III, with it being the US against the rest of the world. All because that silly book that they worship promised them an Armageddon. We have to make certain that the religious right is put in its place, begging our forgiveness for 1500 years of oppression.

    • Not an idiot xian.

      And if they ever get in power again, say goodbye to the minimum wage, profits before people, the republican motto.

  • johnbuoy

    “The Government of the United States of America is not, in any
    sense, founded on the Christian religion.” George Washington-Treaty of Tripoli

    • Sam Brosenberg

      Jefferson was president when that Treaty was signed.

      • johnbuoy

        Uh, your point being?

      • Sam Brosenberg

        Well first off, it’s my mistake, but the treaty was signed during John Adams’ presidency (1797) not Jefferson’s. However my point, which still stands, was that you were incorrectly attributing the quote to someone other than the man who wrote it. I don’t know if Adams actually wrote the text of that treaty, but it’s his signature on it that makes it the Law. George Washington didn’t have anything to do with the Treaty of Tripoli.

      • johnbuoy

        The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end
        of George Washington’s last term as president).

      • johnbuoy

        Ok, so Jefferson said:
        “Religious institutions that use government power in support of
        themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no
        faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an
        established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own
        people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the
        ‘wall of separation between church and state,’ therefore, is absolutely
        essential in a free society.”

  • Gary Menten

    I call myself a skeptic, which means that for me to accept something as fact, it must be something that can be tested through scientific means, and which is supported by scientifically gathered evidence. Stuff like the Theories of Evolution, or Gravity or Relativity would qualify. God on the other hand does not.
    However none of the above have any relevance to the Pledge Of Allegiance, at least as originally written, and certainly not in the context of the original intent of the Constitution. One can completely reject the Theory of Evolution or of Gravity for that matter, OR the existence of a supreme creator and still believe in principles of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; democratically elected government answerable to the people, freedom of thought, religion and expression, and the rule of law.

    Eisenhower got it wrong. What defined America from Soviet Russia was not that American’s were more or less religious that Communists. The difference was that Americans were free to believe and express whatever they wanted to whereas Russians might be persecuted for doing this by the Communist authorities. Under Stalin incidentally, evolutionists whose scientific findings clashed or did not rest well with Stalinist ideology were just as likely to be thrown in prison or sent to a gulag as anyone arguing that Communism was incompatible with God. Atheism was no guarantee of survival in Stalinist Russia.

    It would have made much more sense to insert the phrase “free to believe” than “under God” in the pledge. This would have been both accurate and inclusive, and something I think America’s founding fathers would have agreed with.

  • Catherine Walters Brick

    This is sort of like the Geico ad: “Everybody knows this.” You won’t convince those who only believe what they CHOOSE to believe, but this is pretty common knowledge.

  • Casually Talking

    These people use God and Jesus where it is convenient for them. Like no abortions and being against homosexuals. However, I have read the bible and I am pretty sure their Jesus would be all for Social Welfare and against greedy CEOs taking advantage of their workers. So, if you want to be a Christian in the government how about do the right thing and actually help people. Otherwise sit down and shut up.

  • Kev

    Our Lord – Constitution
    The Creator – Declaration
    Great Governor of the World – Articles

    • giankeys luvs shemale porn

      no problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, GOD did create everything. JESUS did NOT. nor allah nor Buddha ETC– we don’t want anyones religion legislated in OUR lives

  • Rabid Penguin

    “Under God” was added to our pledge in response to Godless Communism precisely BECAUSE it was believed that we were not a Godless nation. We are a nation under God. To think that God in relation to our country first started appearing in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s and is a recent thing in american history is very revisionist. Read the Gettysburg Address, read the Declaration of Independence, read Washington’s Farewell Address, read state constitutions, read the Confederate constitution, read just about anything. Not that all our founders were Christians (in a strict sense) per se, but religious thought played a very important role in shaping our country. We have always been a deeply religious nation. The vast majority of people in the United States have always claimed to be Christians, and probably more so at our founding than today. So by what definition then do we define “Christian nation” or a nation “under God”. Obviously we don’t have a state religion, so in that sense we are not a Christian or religious nation. But in reality we have always been a deeply religious nation, and in particular that religion is Christianity. Why are atheists so afraid of our history?

    • walter77777

      In 1492 there were no Christians in USA. Christians brought their Faith to this country.
      In the Name of Jesus good Christians gave Native Americans blankets which had belonged to persons who had died of smallpox in an early attempt at biological warfare..
      In the Name of Jesus good Christians sent conquered Native Americans on the “Trail of Tears”, a forced march which killed many thousands of Native Americans.
      Christians imagine themselves to be so much better than everyone else.

      • Rabid Penguin

        Your whole “christians gave Indians smallpox blankets to kill them” theory is a blatant misrepresentation of history. And the trail of tears was started from the Indian removal act of 1830. And attributing it to christians is also a blatant disregard for history. It was christians such as jeremiah everts that stood opposed to it. It was very controversial even at the time. But as we all know andrew jackson was a terrible racist.

  • Kevin Carroll

    What a laughable article, but at least Clifton is consistent. Can he , or anyone else for that matter cite someone who points to the pledge as proof that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values? Liberals are so easily led.

    • Holly Baby Catkiss

      How about read the constitution and declaration of independence or how about the treaty of Tripoli for starters?

  • ISmellTacos

    It may not have been there from the beginning but it was ALWAYS understood, that is why they added it later because they saw the decline of the American attitude towards the God of the bible and didnt want it to disappear.

    • Holly Baby Catkiss

      More like forcing it on everyone else.

  • dltaylor51

    I can tell that this site is pro Obama to the hilt and judging by all of the progressive slanted views of religion this is a good place for them to congregate,they can believe in Obama’s lies and make up some of their own.

  • dltaylor51

    I can tell that this site is pro Obama to the hilt and judging by all of the progressive slanted views of religion this is a good place for them to congregate,they can believe in Obama’s lies and make up some of their own.

    • Holly Baby Catkiss

      No one cares. I’m not Christian and I hate Obama so kiss my butt.

    • walter77777

      Taylor: Rev. Bellamy did compose the, Pledge of Allegiance. He was a Baptist minister who did not mention any Deity in his pledge because he wanted it to be universal and knew that there were in USA Christians (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Quaker, Unitarian Christian ,and others who considered themselves to be Christians), Jews, followers of Native American spirituality, Buddhists, Confucianists, Taoists, and many other beliefs and non-beliefs.
      He certainly did not want to divide USA. Why do you want to divide us.
      In 2016 your team just might be lucky enough to get your kind of politician elected.

  • Chaitanya

    John Adams, the great patriot and one of five principal authors of the Constitution, a man most integral in our nation’s union and liberation, states unequivocally in the Treaty of Tripoli 1797, that “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded upon the principles of the Christian religion.”

    One can believe the actual founding fathers of our nation concerning what principles this nation was founded upon, or one can believe, uh, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.

    I’ll stick with John Adams.

  • Pilgrims, religious freedom. Enough said.

  • Diane

    Don’t confuse conservatives and right wing nut jobs with facts. They cannot comprehend facts and only believe their fantasies.

  • Jo

    Praying or all of you.

  • Nathaniel Hussey

    The other tid-bit that goes along with this is the fact that up until December of 1942 the pledge was recited with the right arm out-stretched straight with the palm down.
    Care to guess why congress changed it to a hand over the heart?

  • tahitigal

    I think I read somewhere that the majority of the “founding” fathers were not religous at all – either atheist or agnostic. All the GOD inferences/references were ADDED in the ’50 (1950’s) due to the communism threat.

  • Kitty

    Outside the point of the pledge…..I am wondering, how do you suppose intelligent humans were put here? We have to have had some sort of beginning and it cannot be monkeys cuz the monkeys are still here. So can someone honestly answer that with full knowledge of how humans got here?

    • Kitty

      I am asking because I am curious on how many people will have correct information. I have heard several different answers. And saying there is no God is saying there are no humans. Someone created everything. Also outside of the evil around us everything that is so beautiful…from the flowers in gardens to clear blue sky. It states God saw that it was good. It was good until we had destroyed so much.

  • Fedoraneckbeardliberal

    This is one cringe-ass post nigga you leavin’ it’s like you oblivious too so many other things. If you wanna make a true argument you gotta touch on all the facts my nigga.

  • u_go_guys

    2014 pledge:

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Ununited States of AmeriKKKochs, and to the oligarchy for which it stands, 50 separate sovereign states, UNDER GOD, with liberty and justice for the elitist Christians .

  • moe/larry & curly keys

    vote lying white trash scumbag VOODOO religious regressive republican

  • Ian K

    You can remind them…..but their won’t listen…their minds are closed to the truth

  • xnerd

    THe moron right wingers always pretend like ((((Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ))))) means that congress is not allowed to form an official religion


    If it were to mean that it would have been written: (((Congress shall make no law respecting (((THE))) establishment of (((A))) religion))).

    Then they bring up the BS about congress printing christian bibles THAT NEVER HAPPENED!

  • Barry

    They wished for us to continue enlightenment away from the Dark Ages of repression. If you read their documents and their letters this is abundantly clear.

  • sherry06053

    Your article would be so much more affective if you stopped stooping to their level and quit using the same tired old unflattering pictures. This tactic does nothing to improve your point, and makes you come off as petty and childish. I know everyone is guilty of it, but it rubs me the wrong way….just sayin’…

  • The Bops

    Why do you hate God so much Mr. Clifton?

    • giankeys luvs shemale porn

      hey bops– he is a Christian: and sick of the white trash regressive PSEUDO Christians trying to force religion down our throats. I also HATE religion: GOD is cool– religion is for lemmings and scumbags. Love watching the regressive crybabies on the RIGHTWING slowly die out and vanish

  • mike46

    And the reason for writing the pledge was to get schools to buy flags in celebration of the 400th anniversary of ‘Columbus Day’. And we all know how true the story is of Columbus discovering the new world.

  • John Michael Hutton

    People who don’t know history are bound to be stupid and uninformed or misinformed or all three. I have refused to say, “under God”, since they inserted that phrase. I was in fourth grade and even I knew that this was wrong and was AGAINST the Founding Fathers wishes. And yet, to this day, there are people that think saying those two words is going to make a fig of difference in this country. Let me assure you, it is not except to undermine the purpose for bringing this country into being.

  • Marianne Kwiatkowski-Yee

    Good stuff!

  • pdx

    So why do we have laws, and rights to exercise our Religion taken away? Any Religion we choose should be free of the Government inflicting upon it? And our freedom of speech taken away aswell. So I can’t say I deny Gays, yet you could say screw the president, or I hate a certain Reliogion. Is this post made to prove something against Christianity, so the writer might be anti-chrsitian? Or maybe against the way God says, about this political matters like , Gays. So anti-God. Is this really a political conversation, or an anit-God elimination round, to get all this sinfull laws passed, and God removed indefinitely .?

  • libzrnutz

    History. Read it sometime.

  • Frank McLaury

    Of course we are a Christian Nation and I can prove it logically. How long has it been since Jane Fonda appeared at the Hanoi Hilton to taunt American POWs captured by VCs? And yet, our captive POWs are back home, and Jane Fonda walks the earth alive and well, unharmed. The GI’s victory over her traitorous behavior, in my opinion has been her continued attempts at a movie comeback that have failed. Her name on the marque guantees it will bomb. Justice.

  • James

    Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the twelfth….
    It also refers to the DoI which states “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” So yes the Founding Dcuments DO refer to GOD Why Lie abou it?

  • See The Light

    Alan Clifton, why don’t you get up in front of a company of marines and read this article you have managed to put in some manner. It seems you are trying to educate some fools and I personally think you the fool. We sing the National Anthem and recite the Pledge and a the words only mean something to those believe in those words. Undoubtedly you don’t and it is a true shame for you are missing out on what it means to be an American. I realize this country is a mess today but things are going to chance. It is better than it has a right to be considering we have an idiot for president, a lunatic leading the House of Representatives and a leader of the Senate who refuses to accept any legislation from a Republican House of Reps and who by the way is one of the richest members of the Senate and would be richer by far if only those pesky cowboys had not messed up his plan to give vast areas of land to the Chinese to build a humongous wind farm to provide and sell the electricity to all the illegal Mexicans in California. Spend a little time Spend a little time outside that cave you live in and look at the world around you.

  • Joe Ruisi

    This is what you call, “Progressive thinking”? You are the ignorant who despise the constitution and apparently don’t know that our constitution and most of our laws were established on judeo Christian principles after a successful victory led by a strong Christian leader, George Washington, and by the grace of God under insurmountable odds. You are jackals and fools who think you are above it all. If you are successful, you will have destroyed my country.

  • dixie miss

    So in other words we are to stand and smile while other religions are shoved down our throats and ours are taken away.. More liberal pussies mouthing off

  • Timothy Fosseen

    God is mentioned in The Declaration Of Independence

  • jerrygct

    Forward Progressives = wannabe communists.

  • pastrami

    The premise of this article is way off base. People on the right aren’t insisting that anyone believe anything. They are demanding their right to believe, and express their belief.
    Pretty simple.

  • Betty Hicklin

    then keep your mouth shut, nobody twisted your arm & said you had to say it! If a myth is non existent why are you so threatened by it?

    • Michael Clark

      There’s that “freedom of speech” that you keep demanding yet tell someone else to “keep your mouth shut”. Do you see the conflict there?

  • Jared Wells

    Atheism is a religion. I noticed the author of this article obviously has some very deep socialist attitudes. You may think it’s okay for people to get paid to sit around and have someone’s Else’s hard work’s reward taken from them and given to the non working people. The author should move to a country where the socialist are strong and not be trying to make everyone lazy here.

  • Nick Angel

    Who are the Quakers and Puritans?
    The first peoples who landed in these shores were Christians….schools were put up and run by men of faith.
    The Constitution says: “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth of September in the YEAR OF OUR LORD (caps mine)
    The Declaration was signed : “with a form reliance on the protection
    of Divine Providence”……….
    As a military General forming a force among vets says::there are no atheist in foxholes….

  • Joe Bremer

    It doesn’t matter when the word God was put on the pledge or money, we Are a country that believes in GOD and we just want to prove that our did start with puritans coming to this country because they wanted to practice their belief in God. That is why it is said…the majority of the citizens of the US believe in God; and don’t aliens who become citizens have to say the Pledge?

  • Margaret Murphy

    Obviously, you have not read the autobiographies of our forefathers of America. Almost all of them were Christian. However, they did not want one particular Christian church to take over our government as in England and persecute the other Christian religions (which by the way were the Puritans or Congregational Church, Quakers, Presbyterians, Dutch Reformed, Lutheran, Catholic, Mormon…Never did they intend that the United States Government should interfere with religious beliefs, or dictate to religion what they should believe as they do now.

  • Mary Moerles

    Progressives, liberals, socialists, communist. Doesn’t matter what word you choose to describe yourselves, you’re all about HATE. Period. Shame on you.

  • Larry Cook

    While the Pledge was not written till long after this nation was formed, nor included the phrase ”under God”, is moot. It is there, and it is a fact that most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and supporters of the Constitution were Christian faithful. And since it follows much of the Magna Carta, in the freedoms and rights granted, that too being based upon beliefs of Church, freedom, and the free expressions of such, is where we say we are a Christian nation.
    I find it strange that non-believers have more and greater rights than myself, a believer. It appears that in an effort to appease the non-believers, my rights to worship and so on, with the greater majority, are stopped. What is next, taking the phrase off our coins? In God We Trust.

  • Concerned Citizen

    Yes, I can read history, But the fact that the majority of people who came over here to form this country was from a Judeo-Christian belief. It was their belief in God and a better life that help make this country what it is. You can quote all the papers you want to. And since your constitution, and government should have noting to do with any form of religion We the people should be able to tell the Atheist that tell us we can’t pray at school, to go to hell. And or tell then to stop putting out their religion on our school property

  • Scott

    Nice job writing this to suit your liberal views… Counting on your readers to do no further research. Congrats you know some history! What did you use yahoo answers to get your information? I’m not disagreeing completely with what you wrote (for once a lot of it is accurate), but just because “under God” and “in God we trust” weren’t originally in the founding documents doesn’t mean religion wasn’t essential to the beginning of our country. Why don’t you read any of the hundreds of other documents written by the founding fathers?

    Furthermore, you forgot (intentionally, I assume) to emphasize the part of the Constitution where no law can prohibit the free exercise of religion. That means I can show my faith as much as I want – and there isn’t anything you can do about it.

    • John Baker

      Show your faith all you like, Sport. Just don’t force it. You have the right to believe whatever floats your boat, and to live your life according to your beliefs. That’s fine. Nobody cares. What we do care about is when you try to force everyone else to live their lives according to your beliefs. As noted, you have the right to believe whatever you like. You do not, however, have the right to petition the government to make your religious beliefs the law of the land, or to force them to be taught as fact in our public schools, or to regulate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

      The truth is Christians themselves are responsible for a large part of the criticism directed against them and are either too stupid to see it or too self-righteous to admit it (or both). If they’d learn to mind their own business and stop expecting everyone else to bend over backwards to accommodate them, non-Christians wouldn’t have a problem with them. It’s just that simple.

      Oh, and we have read those documents you mentioned. That’s how we know that not only were the majority of our founders not Christian, they in fact held Christianity (and religion in general) in rather low esteem – which is why they took pains to ensure that the church would never have the power and authority in the new country that it had in the old. You should read them yourself sometime. They’re a real eye-opener. 😉

  • Born in ’42

    And progressives are what Screwed up Greece, Italy, France and especially, GERMANY and resulted in the Second World War!!!!

  • Born in ’42

    And what purpose is there to any “OATH”, if there is NOT a higher power? Where do MORALS come from?

    • zazutorque

      You take an oath to your peers and you you dont need some sky being to give you morals. If you need a higher entities threat of punishment to makenyou a good person then your the one with the problem.

  • Redfox007

    The Congress is where the first Church (Christian,) was put into use, and it was in the House. A very lot of he Founding Fsathers spoke very highly of Christianity, and it is in their history’s.Look it up before judging against it.

  • Redfox007

    No where does it say in the Constitution, to separate the State from the church. It is not saying “Freedom FROM religion.” Is is saying “Freedom OF Religi

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
    prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”.//

  • I believe in ‘God’, but I believe the word should have absolutely no relation to currency.

  • Donald Nichols

    Believe in anything you want but please don’t kill your neighbor

  • Dayton Hall

    No matter what god should be in everything you no matter what anybody say if it wasn’t for god there would be nothing at all so just remember that justs saying

  • Anthony Smith

    You idiots, our government was set up on Prysbeterian principals. The way the constitution is being twisted was inconceivable when it was written.

  • Beth Scott Kozan

    I’d refute that the phrase “Under God was added because of the threat of communism.” In fact, it was in response to manufactured fears stirred up by one maniac who ran amuck spreading false rumors about the presence of communists in our government. That man was Joseph McCarthy, a delusional senator from Minnesota. Ted Cruz has picked up the mantel of Joseph McCarthy and is trying to resurrect fears. Cruz even looks like McCarthy!

  • bonobojean

    religion is a philosophy that uses god for its end.. the bible was written by man to serve man.. the only thing between god and religon are the words.. god has no religion.. and knows none.. live with it lemmings..

  • Holley Kasten

    Quite simply….FUCK YOU!

  • karen

    A bad apple spoils the whole bunch. (The enemies goals) Just like this old saying. Who cares when it was “first” established or written or come to light. Hindsight is 20/20. We live and learn. We grow. When we were babies, we didnt know how to talk but we learned!!!!!!!! The English was already there “the truth” We just had to learn it. Hopefully we grow and learn and mature. SOME DONT. AS FOR THE PERSON THAT WROTE THIS!! We were ONE NATION UNDER GOD and we WILL BE AGAIN. Hopefully you learn this.

  • karen

    One nation UNDER GOD!!!!!

  • karen


  • sharpss

    Someday people will look back and be amazed by the ignorance and dumbness of this place in time where fairy tales rule the world through war, discrimination, slavery, you name it.

  • hathraswallah

    I have never seen Hindu writing One nation under Krishna or one nation under Shiva or Laxmi. Or One nation under Allah or one nation under Buddha. Either their choice or they do not want to.

  • Jace Wright

    “Cristian Socialist” is an oxymoron. This just confirms to me that I should keep skipping the pledge of allegiance.