People Disgustingly Mock Slain Texas Police Chief Who Was Murdered During Traffic Stop

When I first heard the story about Police Chief Michael Pimentel who was murdered after he was shot several times during a routine traffic stop in Elmendorf, Texas (a suburb of San Antonio), I was curious what kind of media coverage it would get.

So I Googled the story, visited a few websites, and on each I immediately scrolled down to the comments section, curious to see what people might say about this man who was in his 60’s who was killed while on the job.

And what I saw was absolutely appalling. People actually mocking this man’s death. Suggesting that he might have “deserved it” because he’s a cop. Because that obviously means he’s corrupt, unethical and would have probably killed the suspect had he not killed him first.

Just ridiculous, disgusting nonsense.

Here are a few comments I ran across in just a couple of the articles I checked out:

Forgive me, but I have little sympathy for the dead officer, maybe its the times that we live in, I really don’t know.

There certainly is a good reason to think this cop brought it on himself: he’s a cop.

I have little sympathy for either of them.

It’s entirely reasonable these days to be terrified by any cop. They have revealed themselves to be trigger happy thugs who will shoot anyone without provocation. Mr. Lopez was quite rightly terrified and did what any normal person would do, which was to protect himself from a racist assasssin.

Karma. Payback just a little bit for what happened in Ferguson, MO. HAHAHA

Another one bites the dust.

Cop should have been at a donut shop where he at least could be online or something.

Yeah we all know how the cops like to shoot first ask questions later these days…poor guy problably got scared thinking it was his turn to die and decided not today..

I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for the cop.

2014 number justifiable homicides by police, 400. Number of police killed by guns, 28. Amount of pity for this guy, small

I won’t be surprised to hear that Mr. Lopez shot the Chief because he was afraid he was going to be murdered for being a non-white.

Simply reprehensible. And these weren’t the minority, these were the majority of comments on some sites. Just check out the comments section on Raw Story for one example.

I can’t stress enough that people need to realize that there’s a huge difference between advocating for more accountability from our police officers, and slandering them. Because what I’m seeing more and more of isn’t “cop watching,” it’s cop bashing.

And that’s what a lot of liberals are falling prey to. Left-leaning websites that have realized they can make a lot of money by bashing police officers.

Because as I’m writing this now, on August 24, I didn’t see this story about the Texas police chief who was gunned down on left-leaning websites like Addicting Info, Americans Against the Tea Party, Blue Nation Review or Think Progress. Though I did find many anti-cop stories being pushed on these websites.

Was this story not “newsworthy” or was it simply not “revenue generating”? I’ll let you decide for yourself.

If you want to be a partisan website about politics, that’s one thing. But if you want to report on news, real news, then there’s a level of ethics and impartiality you’re supposed to maintain. Though that’s not what’s happening. These stories aren’t written impartially to raise awareness. Many of them are written with the sole goal of producing a “shocking headline” that drives “hits” and generates revenue.

And trust me, that’s a very dangerous “game” to play with how news is reported.

Now, am I saying we shouldn’t report on inappropriate behavior by police officers? Absolutely not. But like I said, there’s a difference between advocacy for bringing accountability to our law enforcement agencies, and pushing fear and hatred toward police officers for the sake of driving traffic and revenue.

Which is how you end up with people mocking the death of a police chief who was gunned down on duty. Because, you know, all cops are bad. At least that’s what you’d think if you read many of those websites I listed.

And let me let you all in on a little “media secret.” If you push a singular position enough, you can make damn near anything seem real. The vast majority of police activity today didn’t result in violence or any sort of police brutality. But when that’s all many of these sites report on, of course it seems like that’s all that happened.

Why do you think Fox News viewers believe so many lies about President Obama? Because that’s all Fox News and the conservative media tells them. If your “news” site dedicates itself to pushing a singular narrative, that’s what’s going to seem like “reality” whether it’s factual or not.

Think about it. When’s the last time you saw many of these sites report on anything positive about police officers? When’s the last time you saw any media outlet report on something positive police officers did?

Like this story about the South Carolina cop who bought a young African American boy he countered on a routine stop bedroom furniture after seeing the kinds of conditions in which he was living. Or this one about a police officer who stopped to throw around a football with a young boy he saw playing alone in an apartment complex. And I’m sure most people didn’t hear about the two cops who spontaneously stopped to challenge two kids to a “dance off” while they were out on duty.

Like I said, if you push a narrative enough, people are going to believe it.

Now I know I’ll probably get slammed for writing this. I’m a liberal, writing for a left-leaning website, who doesn’t subscribe to the droned talking point of “all cops are bad.”

Instead I subscribe to the belief that police officers need to be held accountable when they act inappropriately, but that they’re not our enemy and the overwhelming majority of them aren’t bad. And while it’s important to report on these stories where a cop behaves criminally, I also understand there’s a difference between holding police officers accountable for their actions and “outrage-mongering” against law enforcement officers.

Because something’s gone terribly wrong when “police accountability” has turned into people mocking the death of a police officer in the line of duty.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.


Facebook comments

  • Jim Bean

    You may not actually be a liberal any longer. You may have matured to the ‘moderate’ stage. Certainly, that kind of objectivity will make the hard Left very suspicious of you.

    • Michael McAngus

      Being a liberal who doesn’t see the world in black and white doesn’t necessarily mean one is no longer a liberal. It may simply mean one is an honest, thoughtful liberal.

    • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

      So will self-identifying as a Christian. Yes, there ARE Christian members of the Left. And BOTH parties want us when we agree with them, but want us to shut up and go away when we don’t).

      Generally the Right wants us on cultural issues, but only if we worship “Supply Side Jesus” as well.

      The Left wants us on economic issues (the Bible is an inherently socialistic if not outright Communist book on economics), but wants us to also say that there is no such thing as sin in one’s personal life and that we should not point out that there IS sin because that is not “tolerant”.

      • Jim Bean

        The Left wants higher corporate taxes dictated by law and wants Burger King to refrain, on moral grounds, from doing anything to shield their interests from the Left’s assault upon them. Just like they wanted to legally require banks to make subprime mortgage loans and then refrain, on moral grounds, from doing anything to avoid taking the losses. The right thinks corporations will not, on moral grounds, place the Lefts interests ahead of their own. Doesn’t mean the right is an advocate for the greedy. Simply means they’re applying deductive reasoning to policy making.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        There is no “assault” on corporate interests on the part of “the Left”.

        The payment of democratically decided and apportioned taxes are the implicit duty of ALL participants in the society and economy. It is patently unjust for BK (or ANY corporation or individual) to demand to be able to unilaterally determine what and how much tax to pay, while still continuing to exploit all the benefits of, and extract profits from, our society.

        That is the nature of the social contract. And BK, in accepting the profits derived from, and protections of our society has implicitly “signed” that contract.

        They have ZERO cause to complain.

      • Jim Bean

        They’re aren’t complaining. They’re leaving (to an extent) to exploit all the more attractive benefits offered by another country. Whoo-Hoo!!!! You’ve won the big prize! Well played.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        They have no right to leave, and continue to extract profits from our economy. That is deliberate theft. They use our air, our water, our consumer base, our infrastructure, but refuse to help pay to support those things.

      • Charles Vincent

        They have every right under corporate law to move.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        Then it’s time to CHANGE that law. They have no right to be a parasite on our economy. If they use our society to make money, then they owe us FOR the use of our society.

      • Charles Vincent

        I would hardly call them employing people being parasitical. they still have to pay taxes regardless of where they have moved their corporate HQ.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        But not to us, and WE are the source of their income.

        And they are indeed parasitical on the US economy by extracting profts and now by trying not to pay back taxes INTO the economy.

        Not to mention relying on Food Stamps and Medicaid to support their employees rather than paying just wages and benefits, so they are doubly parasitic.

      • Charles Vincent

        And so are the people in other countries that purchase their product and they reap the reward of having another job market for their citizens.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        Irrelevant. We are talking about the extraction of wealth from US citizens, not foreign citizens.

      • Charles Vincent

        Burger king is a multinational corporation, and they provide employment and those employees still pay taxes which they wouldn’t have if they were unemployed. Thier corporate holding of resaturants in the US still pays taxes on gains made in the US that’s corporate law 101

      • Sandy Greer

        You need to calm yourself.

        It’s a short step from where you are to stoning the ‘parasites’ for breathing ‘our air’.

      • Sandy Greer

        Wow. Our air. My God. And just when you think you’ve seen them all.

        You see somebody posit access to air is ‘deliberate theft’.

        Next we’ll be seeing a Gadsden Flag flying your posts.

  • skopp

    You might want to look into whether the Chief was Hispanic too.

    allen clifto

    • Jo Clark

      He wasn’t, but what difference does that make?

  • Jo Clark

    “…the South Carolina cop who bought a young African American boy … bedroom furniture after seeing the kinds of conditions in which he was living. Or this one about a police officer who stopped to throw around a football with a young boy … the two cops who spontaneously stopped to challenge two kids to a “dance off” while they were out on duty.”

    I have seen all of those stories, but then I’m a news hog. I absolutely agree they don’t get the “play up” that the sensational stories do.

    I really detest this broad-brush treatment of groups. I say it every chance I get. A few bad cops, and yes there are some, do NOT make the all cops bad. A few angry, venom-spewing atheists don’t make all atheists bad people and they don’t make all “lib’ruls” atheist either just because those few happen to take a leftist stance on things. A few outrageous gay folks don’t make all gays bad. A few people who abuse our social services system do not make all people who use social services “moochers”. All African Americans are not “thugs” and all Hispanics are not lazy people looking for a free ride.

    Let people stand on their own merits and stop stereotyping everyone.

    • geez

      Thank you! As retired LE I have witnessed this all through my career. Pick a group, any group, and you can find a few bad apples, that does not make the entire group bad apples. Many officers keep on in their career for the occasional and often quiet thank yous you receive, sometimes months later, sometimes even after you have arrested someone. I always tried to treat everyone with respect but I’m human and did not always live up to that ideal and some people were more challenging than others. But even after 28 years and all the ugliness that you see, the human depravity and in some cases just plain evilness I would do it all over again. People just don’t understand that mentality.

      • katgal1232

        Sorry, I used buy into that most cops were good people and just doing a hard job. I no longer believe that when it comes to law enforcement. It is time for cops to have educations, we no longer can give them 6 months training and then give them a gun. These bozos already make more than teachers They are dangerous to us all, especially people of color. I would say in Ferguson it is the citizens that are in danger from the police. Three black cops in a place where 67% of the people are black. We need intelligent men and women if they are going to be given guns. Critical thought must be used and I have never heard a cop use it. It really is the only job that recruiters say to young men “you get to bust heads”. Now I know you are going to say that I do not like cops because I had so much contact. Not true, I was once a witness to a crime and saw a cop lie under oath. This impacted me greatly. I saw a cop beat up a 14 year old boy, they mistook him for his brother, who was 10 years older and 10 inches taller, different color hair even. They stopped when I screamed you are beating a 14 year old. Oh and there were five of them. Nothing more than a gang of thugs. A cop followed my then 16 year old daughter for 6 months. I asked for help it got worse. No more bad apple BS, they are bad in general.

      • MilitantRubberDucky

        That is precisely the generalization we are warned against making. You had a few bad experiences, and I’m sorry, but that doesn’t equate to “they are bad in general.” By your logic, since police officers deal with scumbags everyday, they would be completely justified to think that all civilians they come in contact with are bad guys and to treat them as such. THAT is how you get situations like Ferguson from police – a result of broad generalizations from people who think just like you but wear a badge.

  • clo777

    This is not a liberal or conservative issue. It’s an intelligence issue. The world is not black and white. It make make life simpler to think everything is one way or another, but there are good, bad and average in any group whether that group be black, white, brown, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, cops, teachers,fast food workers or crossing guards. Failure to convert those variables in to a world view is either due to laziness or lack of intelligence – OR an intended targeting of these lazy or not so intelligent folks by others with an agenda to push.

  • J.Escoffier

    Honestly, is this any surprise….really? I watched the Ferguson, MO riots from the evening Michael Brown was killed all the way into the wee hours of the morning. I listened to and watched Dorian Johnson’s story change at least twice during that time, if not 3x and Piaget’s change once. By the time I got up the next morning we were an entire nation, fueled by bloggers and the media, on a witch hunt for the cop that gunned down an unarmed teenager, long BEFORE any details emerged. I went to bed at 2 am and got up at 7 am. So, in 5 hours the country lost its mind; the innocent until proven guilty rule did not apply to Officer Wilson, apparently. He was prosecuted, judged and was found guilty when the ONLY information anyone had was Dorian’s dubious and ever changing testimony. Surprise? You are partially to blame!
    I told my best friend, that while I believe their is a lot of racism in our country, not against just Af-Americans only, but that I could not and would not make inflammatory comments against this cop that would help continue to incite riots, and vigilantism against this police officer. Psychologically, all that does is give the lunatic fringe some kind of self-validation for all their imagined infractions by police, or perhaps real in some cases, reason to mow down cops. That does not address the problems, it just makes people feel justified murdering cops.

    • DavidD

      The facts coming out of Ferguson clearly indicate that the police are acting lke an occupying army not a civilan police force.
      Facts are neither left or right and I believe you should seek truth from facts and let chips fly were they may.
      In reading your post you are part of the problem rather than the solution due to your opportunist post.

    • tumbleweed

      excellent letter. thank you J.Escoffier.

    • Chris Isner

      Read up on the Ferguson PD, Imbecile. They’re a bunch of racist thugs who’ve been brutalizing the public for a long time.

  • Pipercat

    Comment berzerkers and click-baiters come with the territory. Their “contributions” are not germane to the issue at hand and have another agenda. All you can do is write something like this and moderate the comments.

  • Corey

    Ok…I’m going to make a good bye warning comment again (not that it matters, however, think of this as “Friendly Advice”). I STOPPED reading this article after the following paragraph: “Because as I’m writing this now, on August 24, I didn’t see this story about the Texas police chief who was gunned down on left-leaning websites like Addicting Info, Americans Against the Tea Party, Blue Nation Review or Think Progress. Though I did find many anti-cop stories being pushed on these websites.”

    Why? Because I don’t read news looking for the good people do. If I want that, there are websites where that can be found. Comparing any news or media outlet to FOX is stupid. We all “work” in fields where we can compare ourselves to “competition”, but to do so because of not covering a certain type of news people really aren’t expecting to find on most media outlets anyways, serves no purpose! Do one full article covering all the news outlets, then leave it at that.

    Again, this is just some friendly advice from a potential X; Reader; Email Subscriber; Twitter-Follower; Re-Tweeter; and FaceBook-liker.

    • tumbleweed

      I have deleted all those sites you mentioned. I am hanging on to AJ, but it seems to be the last hope of any sanity. The cop bashing is repulsive and these sites have created the issue in Mo. into a racial fiasco. It doesn’t have to always be us against them, but that’s how these sites seem to see it. I have been progressive all my life, but I’m really wondering what it is that makes these people want to lynch an officer of the law before he has even been found guilty?

  • Mr President Sir!

    Once again I find myself in agreement with you. Why can’t more people see that it is not an us/ them thing. It is a right/ wrong thing. You don’t right a wrong by doing wrong. It’s not a pack mentality but higher order thought process.

  • nana

    I think their are some wonderful police officers out there I know many and I hear great stories everyday..we need to hear more good they do as a few bad cops have ruined it. A police officer killed in the line of duty deserves our respect not cop bashing.. thats like saying all blacks are criminals.. dont they see they are doing exactly what they accuse the police of doing..I am a liberal and I have been for over 50 years.. I have never heard anyone say things like this about a police officer that has just died, his family will read this stuff have some respect..I am not prejudiced at all.. I usually dont see color . I think there are a lot more hoodlums out there now a days that make the police nervous. black and white..this death had nothing to do with the MO thing.. thats crazy to say this cop deserved it.. Im really disappointed in americans right now

  • Richard Verdejo

    Good article Allen.

    I agree that ALL cops are not bad, but they MUST do a better job of developing true community relations, and of culling their own herds of their “bad seeds”.

    And of course, their biggest PR problem – coming to the immediate defense of their own (the Blue Wall) despite claims or clear evidence that a “Blue Rage” event has taken place.

    I understand that cops are human too…subject to the same fears and emotions as everyone else. But they are in a vocation which must rise above such and act accordingly – just as I was during 22 yrs of military service.
    It takes a lot of time to build or rebuild trust, but only seconds to lose such.
    It’s gonna take time to set aside the fears and anger from the Rodney Kings, Amadou Diallo, and dozens of other events over the last couple of DECADES.
    And the media plays a part as you stated – in that there is little coverage of “non-ethnic” instances of police brutality/violence…which is just as real and prevalent, but apparently not as ‘revenue/viewer generating’.

  • OldCowboy

    Saying “Most cops are good cops” doesn’t cut it when the good cops shield the bad cops. When the good cops close ranks to protect the bad cops, they are all bad cops. Until there is more accountability for the bad cops, the attitude that all cops are bad is going to spread. It’s kinda like the old saw, “It only takes one “aw shit” to wipe out a hundred “atta boys.””

    • geez

      That is not so common any more. Fewer and fewer cops break the law to start with and fewer expect special treatment if they do. It is not completely gone and it largely depends on what community you live in as to what you get. Change your community if you don’t like what is happening. It starts with the Chief and what they put in place and tolerates.

      • OldCowboy

        Seriously?? What rock have you had your head under for the past decade? You’ve been watching too many TV shows if you believe that pabulum.

      • geez

        I was working the street up until 2 years ago. I lived it for 28 years and saw a lot of changes during that time, the vast majority very positive. The culture is changing but like anything else it doesn’t change over night. So, no I don’t have to watch TV. And for your comment, you might try getting out from behind your keyboard. Try riding along with officers in your area or participate in a citizens academy before you are so quick to judge. There is a lot of truth to the saying walk a mile in another’s shoes. That said the community sets the standard so if you have “bad” cops take a good look in the mirror as another saying goes, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.

        Edit: Keep in mind it is a very big country with lots of community diversity.

      • OldCowboy

        Sorry, but I can’t agree with your assessment. I’ve been on this earth for 68 years and have never seen so many rogue cops as I’ve seen in the last 5 years. I taught my children to trust the cops. I’m teaching my grandchildren to fear them.

  • Dale Rogers

    Since anyone can buy any kind of gun, and they do, cops are understandably nervous and shoot way more people than they should.
    Its the price we pay so that a hillbilly can shoot tin cans with an AK 47.

  • Chris Isner

    Tell you what, when cops get arrested, charged and tried for brutalizing or killing unarmed civilians–a jury deciding rather than a bunch of pigs in blue–and when cops start demonstrating that they actually have anything but contempt for our rights, then I’ll stop hoping that more of them get put down. Until then, fuck them. One of these days the pigs are going to murder the child of some ex-special forces type and there’s going to be piles of dead pigs all over the place until they finally get him.

  • Ian Osmond

    You read the comments. And the comments were vile.

    Yes, of COURSE they were. Don’t you know the rule, “never read the comments”?

    (He said, aware of the irony of saying so in the comments section.)

  • Sandy Greer

    Writers lead their readers on a journey of the author’s choosing. The best writers do so with finesse – their readers don’t even know they are being led – but follow willingly, entranced. Yesterday we were presented with an article about “ridiculous” pro Darren Wilson supporters which elicited the following responses:

    Murder – sick – murdering scumbag – racist – bigot – fuck thugs – etc…

    We even had a death threat – issued to the lone pro-cop commenter.

    I’m sure you mean well, with this article. I get it. But smacks of Hypocrisy to wag a finger at the competition for “absolutely appalling” comments engendered by competitor articles – after having just unleashed a torrent of one’s own.

  • Darrin Phillips

    Until the so called good cops start arresting the bad cops. There are only bad cops. That’s the way I see it and I have a feeling I’m not the only one.

    • Julie Sipes

      I can understand why you would feel that way, but there are “good cops”. It’s not “all-or-nothing”. There is a gray-area, here…

  • genek1953

    Should serve as a wake-up call to law enforcement officers everywhere about the damage done to their credibility in their communities by the “bad apples” they tend to protect by looking the other way even if they’re not joining in.

    • MilitantRubberDucky

      The shooting of a police officer, or the mocking of one who was murdered? Just trying to see which of these you’re supporting as “a wake up call.”

      • genek1953

        I’m not “supporting” either, but the fact that a LEO can be murdered and the event gets the reaction that this one has is a sign that something bad is happening in LE’s relationship with the public.

  • allenels

    “Thinking” people, whether they consider themselves to be either liberal or conservative, would never take the time to write or voice such vile thoughts about anyone. But as you well know, the internet has become a place for people to express the most hateful musings without fear. So many people are aware that a way to “get a leg up in our society” is to say reprehensible things because these people are rewarded for their sociopathic diatribes against the victims. I am less offended by the internet trolls than by well-paid hate monger(s), such as Sean Hannity. This man has an inexhaustive vat of hate that is not just an “act” and he has been rewarded handsomely to spew his personal brand of hatred to the tune of ($100M over 5 years. S, you can be sure that many of the commenters are hoping to develop an online following in the hope of being able to cash in on someone’s agony and loss.

  • Julie Sipes

    From one “Liberal” to another: Way to go, Allen! It’s important to keep a moral highground and integrity if we hope to positively influence others!

    • Charles Vincent

      Liberals never had the moral high ground.

      • Sandy Greer

        Reluctantly (and tho I’d never say never) in this case – Integrity forces me to agree:

        Aug 24th Allen wrote an article about “ridiculous” pro Darren Wilson supporters. Unleashed a torrent of cop-bashers – right here on Forward Progressives.

        Aug 25th he writes this one: Decries his competitors for the very thing he does himself.

        ^^^Moral high ground, my ass. Hypocrisy? Now you’re talking!

      • Charles Vincent

        That’s exactly what I was getting at Sandy. This phenomenon doesn’t just relegate itself to the left though.

      • Julie Sipes

        Allen is speaking out against painting with a broad brush all cops as bad, and blind “cop-bashing”. That does not mean the defenders of Darren Wilson are “in the right”…

      • Sandy Greer

        No. Allen berates his competitors for the incitement of “cop-bashing” – which he himself unleashed – just the day before.

        Hypocrisy stinks to the heavens above. Left – Right – all the same, when it comes to the stink of Hypocrisy.

        I’ll be the first to say I don’t know God like I should. But I know better than to postulate God is more Liberal than Conservative.

        God love us all. Each – and every – single one. None
        may lay claim to God.

        That I do know.

      • Julie Sipes

        I did not read Allen’s earlier column, so I cannot comment as to if he was inciting “cop-bashing”. But, can you agree that believing those defenders of Darren Wilson – when it comes to the particular case of the shooting of Michael Brown shooting) – are wrong, is not the same as “cop bashing”?
        Regarding knowing “God” – I am complete agreement with you, Sandy. No one can “lay claim to God”. I am a fervent believer of this! Furthermore, I do believe God loves us all EQUALLY, as you said… (Btw, in “knowing” this, I believe you know God better than you think, or than a lot of people, for that matter…) I wasn’t saying that God loves “Liberals” more than “Conservatives”; what I wad saying is what I know of God, to be “His” characteristics, are more in line with the POLICIES and PHILOSOPHY of the Democratic party right now: Caring for those less fortunate, the down-trodden, being compassionate, caring about the welfare of others, etc., etc.

      • Sandy Greer

        You argue Unintended Consequences. That Allen wrote a column – said the cop supporters were “ridiculous” (because he thought them wrong) and then – lo and behold, thru no fault of his own – we Lefties on FP let loose with a tirade of cop bashing.
        Even if that were the case – Decency would say you don’t berate your competitors the very next day for doing the very same thing.
        This is just my opinion, and I don’t wish to be rude. I think you a kind person. But in claiming God favors Lefty policies over those of The Right:
        You are no different than your average Christian Fundamentalist on The Right. You all claim Him as your ‘own’ – more than the others.
        It’s a shameful thing when people argue over God – and who has the ‘right’ of Him.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        We have the Bible, God’s Holy Word. Read it. God is socially “conservative” and economically “liberal”

      • Charles Vincent

        “We have the Bible, God’s Holy Word. Read it. God is socially “conservative” and economically “liberal””

        This depends wholly on who you talk to about the subject.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        No it doesn’t. God’s Word is set and plain to read for all.

      • Charles Vincent

        Riddle me this then if his word is so plain why are there so many different religions in the world today with so wide a range of interpretations of what god meant? And how do we know he said, considering the debate that happened in Constantinople on what would be in the new testament and what would not?

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        Irrelevant, we are talking about the God of the Bible.

      • Charles Vincent

        And so are the baptists and the Jehovah witness’s and the Catholics et al. stop obfuscating

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        The only one obfuscating is you, Charles.

      • Charles Vincent

        No because you refuse to answer my query and are offering intransigence instead of an answer.

      • Sandy Greer

        The only one filled with self-righteous Hubris is you.
        You don’t ‘own’ God. He is not yours alone.

      • Sandy Greer

        It’s all the same God.

      • Sandy Greer

        Yeah. You and every other Christian Fundamentalist Evangelical RWNJ. You all think you ‘own’ God.

        I’ve read the Bible. God loves us all. He doesn’t pick and choose among liberals and conservatives.

        Just SMH at your Hubris.

        Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. ~ Proverbs 16:18

      • Julie Sipes

        I think one day you’ll find out differently…

      • Charles Vincent

        Empirical evidence proves the left doesn’t have the moral high ground.

      • Julie Sipes

        That’s your opinion, my friend… One day you will realize….

      • Charles Vincent

        Ohh I only need to read left leaning blogs like this one to realize the left doesn’t have the moral high ground and frankly the same can be said of the right. Jesus didn’t steal from people or force them to do things like the left and right do currently.
        It isn’t opinion when its verifiable via empirical observations. Sandy posted one on this very site that sort of debunks your version of things. God judges one by his works not on his political leanings. Furthermore if we want to bring god into it he would be a natural law advocate since that’s what he created.

      • Julie Sipes

        Charles, empirical evidence is based on one’s observation (perception), and so is subjective… I agree with you about God not judging us on political leanings, but on “works”. For me the POLICIES (not the politicians, per se) of the Dem party, in this time and space, resonate with a higher morality and consciousness, than that of the Republican party… Feeding the poor, healing the sick, loving your neighbor AND your enemy, being a peacemaker (whenevet possible)… Just overall caring about your fellow man… (You know, the things Jesus preached about 😉 ).
        I just see so many of the Republican policies right now as coming from fear, selfishness, and greed… Putting money/profits ahead of the welfare of people, the environment/earth, etc. You know what the Bible says is the “root of all evil”. “Greed” could be another description of “the love of money”… Tell me where I’m wrong…

      • Julie Sipes

        P.S. Live long and prosper… 🙂

      • Charles Vincent

        Then explain how a democrat(Obama) can kill 3 US citizens without affording them due process. Jesus didn’t take bread from one person and give it to someone else.


        “I just see so many of the Republican policies right now as coming from fear, selfishness, and greed… Putting money/profits ahead of the welfare of people, the environment/earth, etc.”

        And I see the democrats pushing policies that do this as well, the to big to fail bail outs they didn’t help the little guy and are the very same trickle down economics the left is always lamenting about.
        Furthermore People fail to see that democrats and republicans are but two sides of the same coin. Mini history lesson; both parties originated from the democratic republican party.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        1) Enemy fighters engaged in battle are not subject to “due process”, as soldiers are not police officers, and do not operate under Law Enforcement Rules of Engagement.

        2) God (and Jesus) said to make sure all had bread to begin with, so “taking” from one and “giving” to another was unnecessary.

      • Charles Vincent

        1) The DOJ white paper details what an enemy combatant is and the government did not prove any of the three were enemy combatants it wasn’t soldiers it was a drone strike authorized by Obama that killed them.

        Jesus multiplied the bread via a “miracle” he didn’t take it from the people;

        http://en DOT wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Feeding_the_multitude

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        1) If the person takes up arms and fights for the enemy’s cause, especially OUTSIDE the borders of the US, they are an enemy combatant. This is well understood. Law Enforcement Rules of Engagement and procedures ONLY apply with in US jurisdiction (legal US territory).

        2) Stop changing the subject. The Miracle of Loaves and Fishes is not what is being talked about. Read my other replies to you on the subject.

      • Charles Vincent

        They didn’t read the NY times article on the subject.

        I didn’t change the subject Jesus didn’t take food from others to feed the crowd which is what government is doing to feed the needy.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        I already proved you wrong.

        I will quote AGAIN:

        “14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

        15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.

        16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.

        17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” – Mark 12:14-17 et al

        Stop lying. Jesus says to pay your taxes.

      • Charles Vincent

        i wasnt talking about taxes thats an irrelevant argument.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        That’s exactly what you are talking about. You couch it in terms of bread, but the basic principle you are advocating is that “what’s yours is yours and NO ONE has any claim to ANY of it”. That is patently wrong, as Jesus said: “Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar’s…” The government has a rightful claim on a portion of all that you make and own as its just due for the services it provides.

      • Charles Vincent

        No I meant bread When I mean money I will say money.

        “Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar’s…”

        Boiled down it means the money can be Cesars but your soul belongs to god.

      • Sandy Greer

        >Stop changing the subject.

        What are you? Some kind of Control Freak?

        You don’t get to say what people talk about. Your only choice is whether you join the convo. You chose to join this one. You don’t get to say what others post.

      • Julie Sipes

        I’m liking you more and more, Charles. I think it’s good to be wary of both parties. And you seem to come from a “thoughtful place” rather than a “selfish place”, like many of the “critics” seem to..
        As far as the political parties go: Being “of man” they are both flawed, corrupt, dysfunctional… (as are all earthly organizations – including corporations/private sector, religious institutions, etc.). All that said, while Obama and the Dems are NOT perfect, I think Democratic POLICIES are more in line with the “greater good”. (That’s just my opinion…). Re: the stealing bread from one and give to the other, I’ll point to one of my favorite quotes “There is enough for the needy, but not for the greedy”. And thank you for the “mini history lesson”. I was not aware of that!

      • Charles Vincent

        A little more history from John Locke two treatises of government;

        “The same law of Nature that does by this means give us property, does also bound that property too. “God has given us all things richly.” Is the voice of reason confirmed by inspiration? But how far has He given it us—“to enjoy”? As much as any one can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, so much he may by his labour fix a property in. Whatever is beyond this is more than his share, and belongs to others.”

        and this of land;

        “I think it is plain that property in that too is acquired as the former. As much land as a man tills, plants,
        improves,cultivates, and can use the product of, so much is his property.He by his labour does, as it were, enclose it from the common.”

        “He that, in obedience to this command of God, subdued, tilled, and sowed any part of it, thereby annexed to it something that was his property, which another had no title to, nor could without injury take from him.
        32. Nor was this appropriation of any parcel of land, by improving it, any prejudice to any other man, since there was still enough and as good left, and more than the yet unprovided could use.”

        The framers of our constitution thought this was the natural bound to laissez faire markets

      • Sandy Greer

        So vote Dem; nobody here is telling you not to. You’re not wrong in espousing we do good for others.

        >Tell me where I’m wrong…

        But you are wrong to lay ‘claim’ to God. Because it allows you to feel morally superior to others. We are supposed to be humble before God. We are not to set ourselves up as one above the other.

        Even if we don’t like their Politics – we don’t get to do that.

      • Julie Sipes

        You are right, Sandy. I think you misunderstood me. I’m agreeing with you about “laying claim to God”. I don’t believe anybody had that “right”. It bothers me when religious types do that (btw, I don’t consider myself religious… I’m “spiritual”..), and I certainly do not want to do that. I’m just stating my understanding of the NATURE of God… (as good, loving, compassionate, etc.)

        Anyhow, I live on the East Coast so it’s essay past my bedtime! But I’m glad we were able to “break through” some of our differences and share ideas with each other! (Which is probably a rare thing on these sites! Lol!). G’night…

      • Sandy Greer

        I’m Spiritual, too. Don’t go to church, save for weddings and funerals. Find value in all religions.

        I’m glad you like Charles. He’s my favorite Opponent, from whom I learn much.

        You be sure to have a good Thursday.

  • Stephen Angel

    I had to stop reading about half way through. Just didn’t want to waste anymore time. One little line from the article talking about reporting-“level of ethics and impartiality”. This person needs to think before typing. Ethics is something seemingly missing from far too many officers these days & they are anything but impartial as the ones with the PRIVILEGE of a badge are ALWAYS RIGHT & the person without such PRIVILEGE is ALWAYS WRONG in their minds. Far from impartial & does not lead to ethical behavior when they are making a million excuses for each other. This person wants to talk about disgusting responses to an officers death. How about the disgusting posts I seen on PoliceOne? In the case of the officer gunning down the young teen who was walking with a replica gun. Their responses were not, tough situation anyone of us might have done the same. No it was PRAISE, YES PRAISE for what he did! What the hell kind of PSYCHOPATHS PRAISE someone for wrongly gunning down a kid? Or how about on the same page when these “professionals” start dropping the F bomb on anyone that suggests more accountability is needed, including on any officers that agree with this? Its by far not a one-way street in such behavior.

    • MilitantRubberDucky

      TL;DR: I’ve encountered some unethical assholes, therefore I’m entitled to be an unethical asshole as well and perpetuate the problem.

  • Sweetsus

    Great article.

  • justjk

    I’m curious is Joshua Manuel Lopez, an American Citizen.

  • Scottie Baugh

    I was unaware of the shooting near San Antonio. That seems to me a tragedy for both families, and not something to be mocked.

    It is getting really hard to tell the good guys from the bad these days. I’ve worked closely with some cops who, like Sgt. Johnson in Ferguson, were respected by the community and the go-to guy in a crisis. And then there were those you didn’t want to stop you on a dark stretch of road.

    To condemn all police is unjust, but to never condemn the few, from the commanders who make the decision to send out the tanks, to the cop on traffic patrol who makes stops for driving while black, is criminal.


  • so…what you’re saying
    is comment sections have trolls?
    that is terrible.

    • Sandy Greer

      ^^^He’s a clever one^^^
      Says much – and all in Haiku
      That is wonderful

  • Julie

    I feel like the same thing is happening with teachers in the media. It’s a sad world we live in.

  • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

    To the author: Thank you for having the courage to post this article.

    “Cop hate” is just one aspect of the Radical Left that is pretty much the same as those on the Radical Right. In the larger view, the only read distinction between the two is the target of their hate.

    The Right in general hates: minorities/ethnics, women, the poor, and alternative lifestyles.

    The Left in general hates: whites (esp American whites), men, the rich, and traditional lifestyles.

    BOTH sides hate the police, for the same reason (instrument of an oppressive regime), but with different regimes in mind. The Right points to alleged overstepping of the government against otherwise law-abiding citizens (on guns, land rights, etc), and the Left points to overstepping of the government in silencing dissenting voices (suppressing protestors), and alleged institutional racism.

  • forpeace

    First, I would like to express my sadness and my sincere condolences to the family and friends of Police Chief Michael Pimentel.
    Second, dear Mr. Allen Clifton, I would like to thank you for posting this informative and important article, I have read some other articles written by you on this website and I really enjoyed all those articles.

    Third, I see the MSM, media in general, TV Cable News as a big failure in our country. Almost all of them have forgotten that informing the public by providing the facts and the truth and the real reporting are their job. Sadly competing for either higher rating, or more clicks has become their top priority.
    As a proud liberal, I want to know the truth based on facts and evidence, I also believe in civil and equal rights for everyone, and justice for ALL. I have great respect for police officers and law enforcements, and I know there are few bad cops mixed with so many good ones, I do not like to call all of them good or bad, that is absolutely wrong. There are so many good police officer in the city I live, how can I blindly say that they do not exist? I also believe that the police job is to protect and to respect the ordinary citizens, and to keep the communities safe, and if there are any police officer who failed to do that, then they shouldn’t have been in this business in the first place. What happened in Ferguson is a sad tragedy, but I would like to wait for the trial, if that officer did something wrong then he has to be punished for what he did, period. I do my best not to post on articles related to that tragedy, although I did post couple of comments in the last few days/in the past, but then I stopped, because I do not agree with those who believe all police officers are bad people. I do not deny the racial profiling and racism doesn’t exist, sadly, those exist, there are so many elements and factors that goes back to decades ago plus, lack of education and poverty, and etc. are the cause of those serious issues that have never been dealt with to begin with.

  • Brenster21

    One of the best articles on cops, that i have read in long time. as someone who knows a lot of former members of NYPD and FDNY, i have great respect for cops and firefighters, and i feel that there needs to be more accountability towards them.

  • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

    Can someone please explain why my extensive post debunking Charles’ Right-Wing Psuedo-Christian rants was deleted?

    • Charles Vincent

      You cannot use links in your comments without modifying them.

      also I am not right wing as they say and ad Hominem is an admission of defeat and shows a lack of credible arguments. Secondly Julie posited god into the discussion.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        Then I need to repost w/o them obviously.

        Your position is classic Right-Wing Psuedo Christianity. It is “Supply Side Jesus” at it’s sickest.

        If you don’t want your opinions to be called what they are, change your opinions.

      • Charles Vincent

        You’re the one that is reading something into my posts that isn’t there. and no you just need to modify the links like so;

        http://washington DOT cbslocal DOT com/2013/10/08/how-many-native-americans-think-redskins-is-a-slur/

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        Right now I have other things going on. I’ll post again later.

      • Charles Vincent


      • Sandy Greer

        Your opinions are scary. You tell me to read the Bible – God’s Holy Word. You berate people for not drawing the conclusions you do from the Bible.

        You lay claim to God like He was yours alone.

        You call yourself an Old Style Independent Populist – but you are no different from any other Christian Fundamentalist RWNJ.

      • Old_Style_Independent_Populist

        The Bible is crystal clear on the subject of how the society is to treat the poor, just as it is on all other subjects. It’s in black and white for ANYone to read.

      • Charles Vincent

        Yeah and the bible is also clear that should be voluntary.

      • Julie Sipes

        I agree with you, Old Style, about the teachings of the Bible. The way I see it, the “world” operates according to its own law of “Social Darwinism” – economic survival of the fittest, where the powerful by-and-large, use and exploit the powerless… Followers, however, of a Higher Power are called to bring Heaven/God’s ways, to earth. The “haves” have an obligation to help the “have-nots”. I agree with Charles about it being “voluntary” – ideally, yes. But some of us believe that our country owes this to its citizens – which we seek to execute through government. (This is not to say government is “God”, by any means, but rather can used as a vehicle for divine purposes.). (In addition, there are “mandates” in the Torah/Hebrew Bible about setting aside a portion of your crops for the poor and the “stranger”… non-resident of Israel.)
        I’ll end with one of my fav quotes when it comes to economic supply: “There’s enough for the needy, but not for the greedy”!

      • Sandy Greer

        I agree Haves are obligated to Have-Nots. Karma, gratefulness, humility demands it be so. Agree, further, a country (govt) owes its citizens.

        But think it best we don’t seek to use govt as a ‘vehicle of divine purposes’. Even aside from 1A – There is too much grey there; too easy to be led into the dark of determining what is ‘divine’ and what is not.

      • Julie Sipes

        Agreed. I think as far as the governing/legislating part goes, the “spirit” behind the law is what matters, in the end. Hard to codify these things…

    • Sandy Greer

      Reading through these posts of yours – You seem to have a real need to define the other person’s argument.

      You assert your opinions – couched in the Bible like you are the Right Hand of God – and are unwilling to hear others. Instead, you tell them what they’ve said. Straw Man – every time.

      You are not the Warrior of God you think you are. This is not His Battlefield you fight on. You don’t lay claim to ‘righteousness’.

      • Julie Sipes

        Hi Sandy, I couldn’t find your last reply to me, so I’m replying via this one. I’m glad you are “spiritual”, that’s great! You sound like a real “free thinker” with a passionate heart. 🙂

      • Sandy Greer

        Free Thinker – No better compliment can I receive.

        I can live for two months on a good compliment.
        ~ Mark Twain

        Your kindness is a shining light; strong enough to illuminate the darkest corners of the universe.

  • Peter Gatliff

    I can see both sides of the story. I feel for the police chief and his family. But people are sick of the fascism that seems to have taken over our police forces since Bush 41 . Something changed in this country after military grade weapons began hitting the streets in 1990. When people see cops throwing paralyzed people in wheel chairs to the ground or the floor of police stations, caving the face in of a mentally retard kid they laid n bed for two m months and died , hand cuffing 86 year old lady’s with a cane in a Wall Mart parking lot while two cop’s hold her down, throwing flash grenades into a baby bed after raiding the wrong home and refusing to pay for the medical bills, killing a 90 year old women with over 90 rounds after they knocked down the door of the wrong home on the wrong side of the town, killing and maiming people and the district attorneys allow them to walk free. How do you expect the citizens to feel that pays these people wages and retirement and health insurance for the cops and their family’s. Cop’s running around with skin heads, tatoo’s and looking and acting like Nazi’s in a B grade movie doesn’t help make good relations with the people and law enforcement. I have traveled to Europe. In one year the German police fired only 82 bullets. Great Britain only one person killed last year by the police. Oh yes I drew my weapon only once while I was in uniform. A drunk driver attempted to run me down. But I was afraid of hitting a bystander. Something has to change or this country will have a civil war on their hands.

    • Julie Sipes

      Hi Sandy. I couldn’t find your last reply, so I decided to just reply via this one… I’m glad you’re also “spiritual”…that’s great! You a “free-thinker” and you have a passionate heart! 🙂

      • Sandy Greer

        Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. ~ Mark Twain.

        ^^^ Kindness is also an Art – demonstrated welll, by Julie Sipes. Enough to put us all to shame. You are an Inspiration.

        You be sure to have a good Thursday.

      • Julie Sipes

        Wow… thank you, my friend! Beautiful quote by Mark Twain! I’ve learned a lot from you, as well, and I appreciate your input… even for us “Left-leaners” ;). I will try to listen more to the “other side”. Blessings…

      • Sandy Greer

        Oh, I’m a Leftie too. Why I find the Hypocrisy exhibited so appalling. I wish our standard bearers kept to better standards. 😉

        But you be sure to have a good weekend.

      • Julie Sipes

        Well then, TY for being a “Leftie” with integrity, then. ;). I hope you have a great weekend, as well!

  • Julie Sipes

    Well said, Peter! I’m with you…

  • melissa brown

    While there wasn’t much detail in this post about what exactly happened during the incident, here’s a very relevant sentence:

    “Pamerleau told the Express-News that a 24-year-old man was taken into custody and will face a charge of capital murder of a police officer.”

    That is how justice is supposed to work in this country. The officer in Ferguson has not only not been charged or arrested, he is being hidden and protected by the ones who have the power to do that. The victim, his family, and the community have no power.

    Do you see the difference?

    As Bryan Stevenson so rightly says, “We have a system of justice in the US that treats you much better if you’re rich and guilty, than if you’re poor and innocent.”

    I expect the accused, who is now a pretrial detainee, will pay some pretty serious consequences for his actions – quite possibly with his life, since this is a capitol case.

  • Cade

    There are no good cops. The “good” ones protect the corrupt and violent prone ones. Besides that, no one is forced to be a cop. 9 times out of 10, the person that chooses to be a cop is a bully with deep rooted insecurity issues. Cops know going in that it’s a dangerous line of work, just like soldiers know they can be killed or maimed in battle. I feel no sympathy for them.

  • DavidD

    Left and right wing sites are thriving on the culture wars .Inflamming people is a great way to increase thier readership but does great harm to the country overall.
    As people lose faith in a rigged system of law they revert back to a law of the jungle way of thinking. .
    The rule of law is a central part of a Democratic society .We are rapidly losing this and it is not a good thing.