The Conservative War on Christianity

war-on-christianityAs a liberal Christian, I always feel like I’m battling an uphill battle to prove that Christianity isn’t anything like Republicans make it out to be.

And honestly, that is the argument I have most with people from other faiths or those who follow no faith.  Republicans have distorted Christianity so much that, for most people, their ignorance defines what Christianity is.  Which, of course, couldn’t be further from the truth.  Even this time of year as the annual “war on Christmas” hits its stride, conservatives seem to be going out of their way to make Christians seem like a bunch of spiteful, hateful, angry and petty individuals.

In fact, I’ll argue that conservatives have waged their own “war on Christianity.”

After all, conservative ignorance is by far the leading reason why I’m told by former Christians that they no longer follow the faith.

While conservatives will sit there and claim that it’s liberals who are anti-Christian and waging a “war on Christmas,” you know something I’ve never heard?

“I’m no longer a Christian because of liberal beliefs and ideologies.”

But I have heard quite often:

“I’m no longer a Christian because of the ignorance of Republicans and conservative ideology.”

So, at the end of the day, who’s really the enemy of Christian values?

Liberals like myself who are fighting to reclaim real Christianity and the values for which it espoused, or those who are driving millions of people from the faith because of their absolute ignorance?

Because I can’t say I’ve heard anyone — ever –– say to me, “I became a Christian because of the value system the Republican party represents.”

And why should they?  Those values are built on greed, hate, anger, fear, paranoia and judgement.  You know, the complete opposite of what Jesus Christ actually stood for.  In fact, these people have actually somehow convinced themselves that Jesus would be a gun-loving capitalist who would support cuts to programs that help feed the poor and needy while advocating tax cuts for the wealthiest among us.

Seriously, millions of them really believe this.

So, who’s really the enemy of Christianity?  Well I’d say it’s those who cause the most damage to the faith, while driving the most people from it.

That would be these “moral majority” conservatives who believe “Christianity” lies in opposing abortion, gay marriage and church attendance.

You know, issues that Jesus Christ never once spoke about.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.

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  • Jim Bean

    The Bible (Christianity) supports love and compassion and rejects abortion and homosexuality. Liberals campaign on the notion that god intended for the former to trump the later. There’s no evidence of that, hence the conflict.

    • FloridaGal50

      jebus does not condemn abortion or homosexuality – he doesn’t even mention it.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        not until the 20th century false prophets(profits) came along

    • Please cite the passage on abortion.

      • Jim Bean

        ‘Though shalt not kill’. Now if you want to effectively refute that, come up with the passage that says ‘life miraculously begins at six months, or 8 months’ (or whatever the magical number is that you’re agreeing on these days.)

      • Jen

        Until an unborn child can be a “life” it must be able to live independently of its mother. Until that time, it is basically a parasite. Decisions about a woman’s life and health and that of an unborn child within her should be between her and her health care provider, not some religious zealot that claims that there is “life” as soon as an egg is fertilized. I can cite personal example that that is not the case. My first pregnancy ended in miscarriage. Am I, therefore a murderer?

      • Guest

        No you are an ignorant bitch that had a child die inside of her.

      • Jen

        Oooh, name calling, how adult of you. Really, follow the line of thinking. If life begins at conception, and my body inadvertently “kills” that life by ejecting it from me, can I be convicted of manslaughter. THIS is what worries me. Once you head down that slippery slope of when life begins, then you open a Pandora’s box of unintended consequences. Any unintended pregnancy, or ill-fated pregnancy is a medical condition that should be handled between a woman and her doctor/health care provider, NOT lawmakers and politicians.

        If it is against your religious beliefs to have an abortion, then DON’T HAVE ONE! The constitution allows me to follow my own religious beliefs and is intended to prevent you from forcing yours on me. Half of the population that to not have a uterus should have no weight in this matter.

      • Tracy

        She’s somehow a bitch or ignorant because you don’t agree with her? Nice. I’m going to guess that you are not a Christian – at least, not a “true” Christian. Not by a long shot.
        Jen – I’m sorry for your loss. I know miscarriage can be devastating and to have someone ridicule you after you share that is just horrific.

      • And you know this how? Have many children die in side you? Or just maybe a man that has a very hard time with women you can’t control?

      • Addie Moe

        Look at the big, brave bully attacking a woman (who has suffered a terrible loss, by the way), while hiding behind a guest avatar. So impressed – NOT. Any idea how devastating that experience is for women? Of course you don’t. You are an utterly clueless being – I can’t even bring myself to label you as human.

      • TomT

        So you consider yourself a “Christian” yet you sling ugly names like a petulant child having a temper tantrum? That’s really Christ like there…. great hypocrisy on your part. You’re such a shining beacon of love and charity. Your testimony is severely lacking if not tarnished. Grow up and grow a brain. You aren’t helping your argument but only enforcing people’s perception of your “faith.”

      • Sue Roediger

        wow – that is so hateful – not at all christlike

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        not christlike…….
        but certainly 21st century Christian!!!

      • Sue Roediger

        I am a member of a church (Episcopal) that is trying to take back the word Christian from those hypocrites who have hijacked it.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        sue– my mom was very religious and a very fine woman. I truly wish U the best in your near impossible fight.
        Christ was a great man,,,,,,,
        ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,todays republican money-driven “church” would crucify that jewish carpenter and teacher if he showed up today

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        and the GUEST crybaby here cant get laid

      • Jim Bean

        A parasite? That’s just your arbitrary conclusion. It carries no more weight than anyone else’s opinion.

      • Now, your getting it! Even with a penis, you can be taught. Good boy!

      • Point. We will agree to disagree. I won’t tell you to have an abortion, and you don’t tell me not to .

      • So we will agree to disagree. I won’t force you to have an abortion, and you can’t keep me from having one?

      • Jim Bean

        Works for me as long as you don’t start insisting I help you pay for it.

      • Ok, I’ll tell you everything I talk over with my gyno, and you tell me all about your prostate exam.

      • Oh! And don’t forget, your blood work so I will know I’m not working with someone with an std.

      • Jim Bean

        My prostate exam? The Doc used to stick his gloved finger up my rectum to physically feel the size of my prostate. Being heterosexual, I found the sensation disturbing and not in a good way. Now they no longer do that. They rely on monitoring the PSA levels in your blood. At age 64, my prostate appears to be in better than average condition. I’m married (twice – first wife now deceased) and I’ve been old-school discriminating and conservative with regard to sexual partners. No STD’s. Had a vasectomy after the birth of my second son as it seemed a much more responsible approach to avoiding additional children than abortion.

      • I hope i didn’t have to pay for it! Your prostate exam shouldn’t have to come out of my pocket. A prostate exam is just something you men do, becoause you like it, we women shouldn’t have to pay the price of men having a good time.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        I suspect jimbo doesn’t use his prostate anymore

      • Sue Roediger

        insurance doesn’t work that way. we don’t pay for each other’s procedures. We put our $$ into the collective insurance company — it pays out. It’s a gamble really, some people pay in more than they ever use, others use more than they pay.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        would that also include republicans making taxpayers pay for corporate welfare,,,,,unfunded wars and 50 attempts to repeal a constitutional law >?

      • Sarbah

        So a woman whose life is threatened by the fetus should be denied life-saving procedures that are standard for our current medical abilities? So a man can inseminate a girl and make her a physical and financial slave to this parasite for the next 9 months? Denying abortion rights because of your interpretation of a religion that clearly isn’t helping you be a better person is sexist, bigoted, inhuman.

      • Jim Bean

        Nope. I don’t care who has an abortion. But the vast majority are predicated simply by reckless sexual behavior which many people seem to applaud or at least ignore. I find that socially unfortunate.

      • Sue Roediger

        To some perhaps unfortunate, perhaps not to others. It is really none of your business though

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        and financially prudent

      • glebec

        Hey, nice hateful man… Per the Bible, the soul does not enter the body until the baby takes its first breath on its own.

      • Sue Roediger

        until very recently (the 1970’s) “life” was said to begin at quickening, although I think there is something in the bible about “first breath”.

    • getoffmylawn

      Sorry, Jim Bean, that is simply false and nonsense. Bible doesn’t even mention social issues except for poverty, hunger, and illness. Left and right, liberal and conservative aren’t part of any true faith. To assert so disqualifies your opinion of legitimacy.

      • Jim Bean

        Never heard of the 10 Commandments – all of which are about social issues?

      • Nicholas A Kocal

        Did you ever hear about “Bearing False Witness”. Almost all of the republican opposition to President Obama breaks that commandment.

      • Guest

        And Obama lying falls in line with the commandments?

      • Nicholas A Kocal

        Well when you can point out a real lie and not something that he said he wanted to do, tried to do it, and was blocked by the republicans I will agree with you. But when your ignorant examples are “closing Gitmo – republicans blocked”, or “keeping health insurance – he had no control over the insurance companies which have been dropping coverage for years” you will have a point. Until then you just show yourself to be a lying, cowardly, ignorant racist.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        almost as well as the prior administration did……
        NOTE: why don’t U scumbags mention RAPE as a commandment??

      • getoffmylawn

        Really:

        1. Don’t have any Gods before God

        2. Don’t make any craven images

        3. Don’t swear

        4. Go to church

        5. Don’t dishonor your parents

        6. Don’t murder

        7. Don’t mess around

        7. Don’t steal

        8. Don’t lie

        10. Don’t covet

        The old testament also endorses sacrifices and stoning people. Do you also ascribe to those practices? You talk like a Pharisee. I suggest you read some of Jesus own words about the poor and sick.

        “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” (Luke 4:18-19)

        “But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed.” (Luke 14:13)

        I know. You don’t hear any of this talk on Fox News or from Rush.

      • That would be “GRAVEN” images.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        wes craven images rule

      • Ever hear of the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount? It’s in the book of Matthew. You might want to check it out sometime.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        yes we have!!!
        I like the one which tells us NOT to rape women

      • Odd Jørgensen

        and the bit that say how a woman that is raped in the city shall be put to death if she fails to scream loud enough to be heard.

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        praise JEEEEESUS! pass that tax free tithe

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        nice SPIN jimbo,,,,,,,,,,as always; weak answer

    • robingee

      The Bible says a lot of things that right-wingers never mention about incest, slavery, bigamy, adultery and wearing mixed fibers. They pick a tiny sentence here and there and go full chort on it, screaming about the one thing they disagree on, using the book only for their gain.

      • It never ceases to amaze me to see that someone does not understand the reason Christ was born. Start from the first verse of Matthew and try to understand the old testament.

        Let me attempt to help.
        Let’s imagine you are on your way to work. Blue lights in the mirror. You fork over proof of insurance and a license. The cop says, “You were speeding.”
        You: “But the speed limit is 50 and it’s a four lane.”
        The Cop: “Back in 1950 it was 25 and a two lane. You were speeding.”
        You get ticketed.

        Christ encapsulated the ten commandments into two commandments while you weren’t looking.
        And you accuse others of cherry picking.

        If I have to explain what I just typed, never mind.

      • Sue Roediger

        Brilliant — I just LOVE this — may I steal it?

      • Knock yourself out. I wish more people would understand what they need to know before they start making moot points. I just corrected “cause” to “accuse.”

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        praise jeeeesus!!
        …………..and pass the tithe

      • You’re trolling, and badly.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        hey imbecile,,,,,im on your side politically: just totally fed up with regressives TELLING us how JEEEESUS ( 21st century version) should be marinating our lives and legislation
        ==========================================

        if that annoys you……….ignore me

      • Done.

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        (4 months later)
        VOOTIE!!

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        superb—————–im stealing this and remitting 25% of the net income derived from this whilst annoying regressives

    • glebec

      You are confusing “the Bible” with Jesus. The Old Testament does not define Christianity as Christ was not yet on earth. He came to earth to deliver God’s philosophy personally. Christianity – the religion named after Christ – not after Adam and Eve or even Moses or Abraham – by definition has to be based on the teachings of Christ. Christ was clear. He never once mentioned homosexuality or abortion. He talked constantly about love, forgiveness, compassion, and caring for the poor. And if you MUST include the Old Testament in your beliefs, then the Bible (not Christ) does state that the soul enters the body of the baby only AFTER being born, upon taking its first breath of air. Ergo – abortion cannot be a sin as the body is not yet human until it has a soul, which is once it can breathe on its own. Bible thumpers who don’t understand the Bible drive me nuts.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        there U go again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
        —————– annoying religious scum with facts!

    • J. Kevin Michel

      The day you and others like yo begin to address divorce with yhe same manic vigor with which you address homosexuality and abortion, is the day I might be able to hear you…Maybe.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        don’t 4get how the sterling(??) 10 commandments claims the incredible “sin” of using gods name in “vain”………..
        ………..yet ignores RAPE as a sin
        =============================================
        and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when the hell is the VOODOO( see: religion) gonna cure an amputee?

    • moe/larry & curly keys

      bible? agreed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
      GOD? god aint bible; man wrote bible————–
      and— gotta luv how the so-called “10 commandments” abhors using “gods” name in ‘vain’–
      ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yet ignores rape???
      ===================================
      war on women started long long ago

    • You were fine at the end of ‘compassion,’ blew it from there.

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        now THAT is the correct reply Kelly,,,,

    • giankeys loves shemale porn

      jesus never mentions abortion or any disdain for homosexuality— if fact: he may have been homosexual as we know NOTHING about his formative years and adulthood until he started being a prophet at age 32. CHRIST said ( correct me if Im wrong here) “LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF”
      =================================================
      now,,,,,,,,, about that noah thing!

  • Darrell Beahm

    I’d like to know what happened to the division of church and state. This is where the war is.

  • Kevin Daugherty

    .this is why we quit our last church. the pastor and his wife were obviously conservative repubs and his wife woulsd make a little right wing speech almost every sunday about how the current admin was destroying christian values etc.

    • J. Kevin Michel

      One more politician masquerading as a cleric.

  • erin

    The bible supports a personal relationship with God. The bible supports free will. The bible supports being non judgmental. As far as homosexuality is concerned, very little is said about it, & that’s mainly old testament. The fact that conservatives are missing is that even if abortion & homosexuality are sins, believers are supposed to be covered by the blood of Jesus. We are all sinners, that’s why God gave his son to die on the cross. For us. And our sins. Basic Christianity 101. So yes. Forgiveness does trump condemnation. Giving does trump judgment. Love does trump hate.

    • Guest

      So we can do whatever the hell we want to do then, because “Jesus already died for our sins”? You clearly are not a Christian and I’m pretty sure you struggle with reading comprehension…

      • Mark Lysle

        Thank you for demonstrating the gist of the story above. This is why Christianity is losing ground in the public arena: Not because of liberals, atheists, pagans or moderate-to-liberal leaning Churches. Because fundamentalists and evangelicals – the Second Coming of the Pharisees – have hijacked the entire faith structure, the Bible and all the faith’s trappings, and have become determined to force their prostituted version of the Gospel upon the entire planet. You know, that “NEW WORLD ORDER” your pal Glenn Beck likes to talk about all the time? That’s fundamentalism.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        glenn beck is a GREAT American!!!!!
        ===================================
        making millions doing his ” elmer gantry” stuff!!!!
        great American!! Id do it to if FOX “news” would sign me up
        ========================================
        until then; however I truly wish to punch-frequently– beck and bolling and Limbaugh and Hannity and michelle “no tits/hates her life” malkin)

      • Mark Lysle

        Who are you to impugn another’s faith? Who are you to question someone who clearly understands the true meaning of Christendom? Fundamentalists and evangelicals are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are the modern day version of the Pharisees, the moneychangers in the Temple. And you appear to have been blinded by their scam.

        And impugning another’s intellect doesn’t make your case a strong one. On the contrary, it makes you look like an immature brat.

      • Kien Tran

        YES! That’s really what Christianity is about. It’s about forgiveness. What’s needed is contrition and faith. In theory Hitler could’ve gone to heaven…well if not for the whole suicide thing and I strongly doubt he was at all sorry for what he did. But that is the beauty of Christianity is that there is forgiveness. Without forgiveness there is no hope. There is no need to change.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        so sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,no heaven or hell. when U are dead,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
        ,,,,,,,,,,,U are dead

      • And so far nothing you have said either

      • white trash religious teaparty

        im glad im not some scumbag VOODOO child “Christian”,,,,,,,,,superstition anyone?

      • I’m glad you aren’t, as well.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        wow–
        we have a gauche agreement??
        if that’s a jejune aspersion it is befitting that it comes from a proponent OF said superstition
        ==================================
        PRAISE JEEEEESUS– and pass the tithe

      • Wow man, make unfounded assumptions often? FFS. I’m just glad the OP isn’t a scumbag Christian. Chill the [email protected](k out.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        read your post to me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
        it doesn’t allow much wiggle; it could’ve been a “Christian” response claiming THEY are glad im not in their circle.
        Im quite cool;; maybe you should simply be more definitive
        —————————————————————-
        please accept my apology; my perfection ended when I was born

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        u got ur ass kicked by white trash religious tea party

      • Nope. I don’t do religion or party affiliation.

        You flunked grammar, spelling, sentence structure, cognitive thinking, comprehensive reading, independent thought cohesion and sarcasm detection.

        Anything I missed?

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        hey– micromastial/ steatopygous virago: I failed SPELLLLLLING?
        WOW!! Im certainly glad I did NOT fail reeeeee-ligion so I can share thy bovaristic and (self claimed) elitist view on what happens when we die.
        On these threads that which U wrote– and NOW claim to be sarcasm– are easily integrated as what they are: ergo U just failed ” comprehension”.
        care to extrapolate upon my sentence structure/syntax/ spelling and “lexiphania”???
        OHNOOOO- I didn’t capitalize my initial words!!!
        ======================================
        enjoy steatopygous and micromastia: I suspect strongly U are both( but NOT “NEITHER”)

      • I remember you. That troll from the other page……………………………………………….

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        seems ur latest MUTED comment infers that U indeed do NOT want to wage a “war” with me– U are smart(??) enough2 recognize U will get obliterated.
        =========================================
        now- about the acute chronic micromastia/steatopygia/oligophreniality U suffer(!!) from,,,,,,
        welcome BACK 2 reality–

      • Actually, I prefer that you continue to prove your superiority. I have all day. Let ‘er rip.

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I ONLY deal with slim BIG chested women( no boooob-jobs/pseudomastia) so that lets U off the hook.
        superiority? considering U have2 look up 50% of the words I write I will simply let the record speak 4 itself.
        =====================================
        reality and your paucity of proper anatomical aesthetics have eviscerated U long b4 I did–
        Im willing to wager that your archetypal otiose eating habits make it mandatory that U acquire a plethora of exigent dessert recipes.

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        wow— no reply to my lexiphanic propensity regarding the flattening of thee?
        ……………….. you mentioned “sumpin’ about comprehension”???

      • Oh know, pleeze contnew 2 sho ur serpreeyority. eye hv all day

  • Steven Levy

    As a person of the Jewish faith, the question of abortion, from which Christianity sprang (y’all do realize that Jesus was a Rabbi – A Jewish teacher), has already been answered…. “if a mothers life is in danger, then abortion is permissible” Does that mean physically? Does that mean mentally? Does that mean a woman’s life is in danger by her not being able to care for the child? I don’t know, you will have to make your own judgement on that. But I will say this, to say that all abortion goes against Christian doctrine is, in my opinion, wrong and inaccurate. Personally, government has no business whatsoever in women’s reproductive rights. If you are going to legislate about women’s reproductive rights, what about a man’s? Shouldn’t we implement castration for a man who is found guilty of rape? Where is the man’s responsibility in this effort? As far as I know, it still takes two to tango!

  • Amy Gravelle

    The Christian Right have been attacking the Pope for being a true follower of Christ. My cousin belongs to a church that abhorrs charity. This is not Christianity, but a twisted view of their sadistic beliefs.

  • Cynful

    Instead of becoming like Jesus, they want Jesus to be like them, it soothes their conscience. They then feel that they can turn around and be as mean and hateful as they want, all in the name of Jesus.

    • HazumuOsaragi

      “And on the seven-milionth day, man created God. In his image he created Him.”

  • Jeannette Murrell Williamson

    As a Christian, I chose to no longer be part of the Republican Party– not give up my faith. My relationship is with God–so there’s no way I would forsake Him because people who have no clue what being a true Christian really is tell me I should think like them. I am not saying I am perfect–not by any means. But I did find once the Tea Party got involved and tainted the conservative waters, I had to get out of there. If a person truly has a relationship with God, they know that hate, spitefulness and bigotry were never part of His Divine agenda. But it really doesn’t matter what you call yourself down here on Earth–because in the afterlife, there are no Democrats or Republicans–but a person will be judge by their acts– and their deeds. I identify through my Christianity first–and my political leanings much farther down on that list.

    • Tracy

      I chose to stop attending church, but am still a Christian. Every church I’ve ever attended had a disproportionate amount of Repubs with their twisted way of thinking, so instead of giving up my faith I’ve given up on church and being around people who barely go through the motions and don’t really live by what Jesus taught. Still, I don’t blame people who leave Christianity all-together. A HUGE part of being a Christian is fellowship with other Christians (do you know how many people don’t think of me as a “real” Christian because I don’t attend church and I don’t condemn others for their religious beliefs?), so if you are unable/unwilling to be around other Christians,some believe there isn’t much point.

  • Mark Lysle

    I try to explain to folks that Christians in general try to follow the Gospel of Christ by helping the poor, the sick and the infirm. Sometimes, rarely, I’m successful at convincing them that only a small minority of Christians, about 10 to 20 million, are fundamentalist/evangelical and thus inclined to believe in the idea that the only way to save their faith is to impose it upon everyone on the planet. Other times, I get subjected to ad hominem attacks by the very same fundies who show up to demonstrate, to the rest of the world, that what I told the original poster was correct.

  • Eric Godsey

    you all have it wrong – we republicans do believe in charity – we believe in helping our neighbor, our co-worker, the homeless, and total strangers. Just this week i handed a few dollars to someone who was stranded at a gas station looking for a bus ticket to go down the interstate, in the middle of the California desert. He was so grateful he was crying – totally unexpected–and i will not ever know what he will do with that money i gave him, and more than likely we will never cross paths again.

    We believe in charity – what we don’t believe is that the government and the tax code are a means of making this happen. Where was the US federal government, or the State of California for this poor man who was stranded, starved, and hungry? Socialism doesn’t work, charity does.

    • Sue Roediger

      Hmmmm …. the pregnant woman with a two year old, whose husband abandoned her has no way to find you and other who may be willing to help her. What should she do ? Go from church to church looking for help? I doubt there is one who would step up with all that she needs. This is why the Gov’t funds welfare……………can you not see that. AND there is still a need for good Samaritans to help the stranded travelers.

      • Eric Godsey

        sue — the point i’m making is that there are already programs that exist to help people like her — yet people like her still exist. Socialism doesn’t work because it does not solve this problem. I’ve personally been in a situation where i needed a safety net — and rather than utilize the government, my family helped—and they are by no means rich themselves. We need to start remembering our own family members when we need a safety net, and not the government.

      • Sue Roediger

        I hear what you are saying but there are those who have no family members to help them, or whose family is in the same boat. Without the Gov’t programs people would surely starve because private citizens and churches can’t or won’t take care of all who need help.

      • Eric Godsey

        my point is that this dependence on the government is what has caused a lot of us to not have family members we can depend on — when progressives talk about conservatives wanting to go back to the 1950’s — it’s not about back alley abortions, it’s about the destruction of familial relationships. Everyone has cousins, aunts, uncles — even so far back as great aunts and uncles. This country used to emphasize those relationships, and we don’t anymore. If we went back to emphasizing those relationships as a society (not the government) instead of driving a wedge, the needs for a safety net will be less–and that the actual number of people who truly don’t have a family will be so small, it will be much more effective to assist those people. The problem is that people now consider their immediate family now as the only ones that count, and a lot of people do not even know who their extended family is.

      • Sue Roediger

        That may be true for many, maybe most in your experience. I was working class growing up and we knew and enjoyed our extended family. My grandfather (Mom’s father) and an Aunt (Dad’s sister) lived with us in the 70’s. I still live in a mostly working class town and my neighbors do sometime help out extended family members, but it doesn’t matter how big your family is if you are all just barely getting by. As I said before if a man leaves his pregnant wife and toddler child – she cannot get a job – no one would hire her – if her kin are living pay check to pay check They won’t have anything extra to feed and care for her and most certainly don’t have a “guest room”. Having family doesn’t mean having family in a position to help. No one in my family has a guest room. None have the resources to fully support an extra person.
        I guess we are each looking at this from different reference points and experiences.

  • Nick25

    Abortion and “gay marriage(there is no such thing)” are abominations to God. You libs are certifiably insane.

    • Guest

      Thank you. I’ll take that as a compliment. I’d much rather be an insane liberal than a brain dead conservative. Thanks again. I DO appreciate it.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        they are not brain dead,,,,,,,,,,,,,
        they are brain limited. following ( their mantra) is easier than leading or walking an undocumented path

      • Nick25

        Kelly- liberalism is a brain disease, your infection is compete. There is no hope for you.

        In light of all the damage liberal philosophy has plagued the world with, especially here in the states, the only conclusion one can draw is the mind of a liberal is a wasteland.

      • Guest

        Well thank you. It isn’t often that an expert gives me such a complete diagnosis, but in this case, I feel honored. By the way, “compLete.”

        Damn, now I have to clean my monitor and keyboard. I just poured that cup, too.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        nick is also my hero,,,,,
        he got me two sweet tickets to hell— alongside Marilyn lange and salma hyaak

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        would that overrule all the destruction and torture and war and deaths that YOUR delightful scumbag CHRISTIANITY has caused????
        praise jeeeeesus!!! lets torture and kill in gods loving name

      • Nick25

        As I’ve said– you’re no different than any other non-believer. You’re not cool, you’re not clever, you’re no stand out by any stretch. You’re one of many who will regret his actions forever.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        forever??
        NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
        ( on a softer note,,,,,,,,,) what PROOF ( please look up the word “proof” b4 U reply) do U have?
        lemme know– Ive got sweet seats to hell right alongside Marilyn lange!!!

      • giankeys loves shemale porn

        hey crybaby—-what EXACTLY are U regressive s “conserving”?

    • moe/larry & curly keys

      if regressive white trash voodoo lovers ( see: religion) is YOUR definition of sanity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
      ……………..room me with jack nicholsen in the movie

      • Nick25

        You’re already a nut, and your soul is doomed. Live it up now because you’re in for an eternity of torment, which is sad.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        if U knew how many big chested women Ive been with or how Ive lived U would cry a river!!!
        my soul is doomed??? outstanding!!! the chics– and the cuisine–in hell is totally HOT!! heaven? flatchested skanks and grains with cheesy wine all for eternity???
        satan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,here we come!

      • Nick25

        You’re like a 2 year old, making those idiotic comments does not make your clever. You will NOT find any comfort or joy in hell.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        but I hear the freebase cocaine rock is never ending; and the women sucking and f*cking me all look like Marilyn lange

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        shall I be as bovaristic and mentally stultified as creeps who BEEEEE-LEEEEVE that THEIR GOD awaits them???

    • moe/larry & curly keys

      really? why doesn’t JEEEEESUS comment on those? too busy fishing and drying out on a cross?

      • Nick25

        Jesus didn’t come to change the law, he came for our salvation– go ahead and mock, though. Billions have done the same before you and now they are in eternal torment. You’re no different. You’re no better, and you’re no worse but your fate will be the same.

        We are not here that long, your time is short and you’re arrogant. There is a price for that.

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        billions???? really???
        that means ( according to your incredibly PERFECT “logic”) that GOD destroys 98% of his children?
        ,,,, and U follow THAT guy???
        Hmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      • moe/larry & curly keys

        I also notice you did NOT answer my question ( see: jesus lack of commenting upon that)
        mustve slipped ur oligophrenial mind when U were deep in prayer( which is begging)

      • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

        hey creep,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no answer? hows the MIRACLE of curing an amputee coming along??

  • Doug Lee

    let me get this straight? you want to take religion back from the religious?? I guess I missed the newsletter where it was announced that Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh now sit on the Vatican council????? You say you know Christians that have left their faith because of the right wingers? isn’t it more likely that under the siege of being told how bad they were to be people of faith the spineless wimps took the easier route??? AND before you ask what right I have to judge them or you……….. NONE. I am an extreme right wing politically atheist, I don’t have a horse in the religious war going on in this country…… I do know this of the religious folks I know, although we aren’t joined at the hip we have much in common, we both base our deeply held belief and principles on morality ………………… right there in that sentence are at least 6 reasons the libs hate both anyone religious and conservatives………. morality, principles……….. you find the other 4

    • Bob Wood

      Morals ???

      The republican party is completely based on giving the rich and corporations anything and everything at any cost. Government of the CEO, by the CEO, for the CEO, shall not perish from the Earth.

      For the christian right tell me where this is in the Bible. There is nothing moral about this nor is it in the Bible.

      What is this about ? :

      Right-Wing Group Seeks Help Rewriting the Bible Because It’s Not Conservative Enough.

      Rafael Cruz indicated that his son ( Ted Cruz ) was among the evangelical Christians who are anointed as “kings” to take control of all sectors of society.

      Morals, give it a break.

    • giankeys LOVES shemale porn

      funny how the TWO creeps U mention hav such sterling MORALS!!!! “morals” which the regressive rightwing adhere to: keeping women and gays and minorities from acquiring EQUAL equality– I hate ( yes!) religion; I do NOT hate god ( im agnostic) and I always ask: what EXACTLY are regressive conservatives ” CONSERVING”?? LEMME KNOW-

  • David Ish

    “I’m no longer a Christian because of the ignorance of Republicans and conservative ideology.”
    You have now