The Republican Fight Against Reality

teaaaaIf you’re like me, you’ve had more than a few debates with Republicans on a varying degree of issues.  And if you’re like me, you’ve walked away feeling as if these people live on a completely different planet.

For a while now I’ve called the Republicans the party of “bumper sticker politics.”  That is, if it can’t fit neatly on a bumper sticker, their party can’t use it for a talking point.  Their message must be simple, easy to repeat and all it really needs to do is sound good—but really doesn’t have to make any sense.

A great example of this is the gun debate.  “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” which is true.  A gun by itself can’t shoot anyone, but a Tomahawk missile can’t fire itself either.  So using that same logic, should average Americans be allowed to buy Tomahawk missiles?  After all, “Tomahawk missiles don’t kill people, people kill people,”—right?

But anyway, that’s a topic for another day.  What I do want to vent about here is the sheer delusion of a host of ideological stances many Republicans have taken.  You know, the party that talks about “traditional American values,” but can’t pinpoint exactly when those were—and any time they might target was during a period of stronger unions, higher taxes and inequality for most anyone that wasn’t a white, straight, Christian male.

Sometimes I just take a step back and look at their positions on some issues, thinking to myself “What the hell is wrong with you people?”

Here are a few of the ones I run across fairly often that leave me feeling hopeless for about half of the citizens in this country:

  • Climate change is a hoax
  • Guns have nothing to do with gun violence
  • Our nation is founded, and based, on Christianity—even though the word appears no where in our Constitution
  • Rape victims who become pregnant should see it as a blessing from God (a lot more common than you’d think)
  • Homosexuals threaten heterosexual relationships, and our society
  • The best way to worship Jesus Christ is by hating, judging and fearing anyone who’s different
  • Equal rights, and pay, for women are debatable
  • Women’s health, and control of their bodies, is best decided by a group of men
  • Strongly detest abortions, yet: Oppose sex education and access to free contraceptives for the poor
  • Claim to be pro-life, yet: Support the death penalty, then brag about the frequency for which it is used
  • Claim they love our Constitution, then openly state they will defy any Constitutionally upheld laws of which they disagree
  • Talk about individual freedoms being at risk, then openly support bans on same-sex marriage
  • Say they love our country, and are true patriots, then scream secession anytime they don’t get their way
  • That sexual orientation is a choice, but can’t identify when they chose to be straight
  • They’re fiscally responsible, yet haven’t voted for a Republican President who didn’t drastically grow our national debt
  • Government doesn’t create jobs, yet millions are employed by the government
  • The best way for the poor and middle class to become rich—is by giving rich people more money
  • You can’t credit Obama with the death of Bin Ladin, because he didn’t personally pull the trigger (or he was already dead)
  • The science of evolution is on equal standing as Creationism
  • Improving our education system is best served by paying teachers less, calling them lazy and cutting funding for educational programs
  • 4 Americans dying in Benghazi is more appalling than the over 4,000 who died in Iraq
  • President Obama isn’t really an American (yes, I’d estimate a good 25-30% of Republicans are still birthers)
  • Fox News is “fair and balanced” and the “lamestream media” is just a puppet for liberal propaganda—then brags about Fox News being Americans most watched cable news channel, the definition of mainstream media (though their ratings are plummeting)

I’ll stop there, but you get the picture.  I could probably have gone on for a few hours listing ridiculous comments I often hear, but I think this list is sufficient for getting my point across.

I sit there during these debates often thinking to myself, “No matter what I say or prove, this person simply lacks the mental capacity to understand it anyway.”

It’s a lesson I learned from someone a while back.  They told me, “You can not use reason and rational thoughts on someone who isn’t reasonable or rational.”  I don’t believe truer words have ever been spoken.  It’s the mind set I have almost every time I debate a Republican.  I can write articles (The Article Every Liberal Needs To Show a Conservative, Debunking Almost Every Republican Lie Against President Obama) with statements debunking many of their lies, with sourced links back to why their belief is a lie, and I’ll still frequently get comments like “Oh stupid liberals, never have any facts.”

But then again what should any of us expect from a party supported by millions who dismiss science, math, history, reality and facts for the words of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.

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  • Annie

    I’m Republican and I’ve come away from those same kind of debates with liberals and with the same feelings; We all have to be willing to listen to each other; I to you and you to me. Not just be paid ‘lip service’ but actually engage, actively listen and be willing to change our minds if anther’s ‘argument ‘for” is backed up with reason, solid rationale.

    Out of the many liberals that I know, I know this to be true. There are only THREE liberals who will carry on serious discussion. Not great ‘odds’ and I’m always met with, “My mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.” attitude. There is no discussion. “Don’t try to convince me” So, libs say the conservatives are stuffy and conservatives say that liberals just walk away, disgusted.

    Yes, the climate is changing. the earth may be warming.. But the question SHOULD BE: Is this possible that this is a cyclical things as the earth ages, or the effects of a depleted (or depleting) ozone layer? Even if we’re on board cleaning up every bit of the ozone, do all other countries need to be on board? .Are all other countries but the US in agreement with the US in limiting holes being eaten in the ozone. If not, no matter how many green energy plants Al Gore sponsors, his jet or the president of some uncooperative country’s jet will work to destroy the ozone..

    ““Guns don’t kill people, people kill people,”” The message here,, is it takes a person to fire that weapon that kills people. So,do we answer our current dilemma by:
    1) making it illegal for anyone to own a gun, robbing people of 2nd amendment rights or
    2) do we do a better job of scrutinizing the PEOPLE who have access to these same guns?

    Each point that you make can be discussed and refuted. Do we discuss them and possibly with our collective discussions, make a difference (the mature adult thing) or hurl insults at each other like they’re doing in Congress, sort of a pissing match and if we’re really mad; take our toys and play in a different sandbox.

    I’m a conservative, though have voted for liberals depending on their positions. Washington is using talking points and language like above to divide us-and they’re doing a damned good job. Does that mean we all have to think a like? Heck, NO. But, entertaining different points of view for true validity wouldn’t hurt. Otherwise, we’re going to turn into the automatons who don’t tun their government; rather, automatons run by their government.

    • Jessica

      Look at this Republican troll.^^^

      Debates 2 facts from the article and claims they can all be debated, sadly, the only 2 you tried to explain the conservative viewpoint of failed miserably.

      The ozone layer depletion is well agreed upon by scientists, so no it’s not earths magical aging process.

      No one is trying to ban guns, just certain guns. So no it is not a violation of the 2nd Amendment to ban personal ownership of missiles, tanks, and fighter jets. You bring up the 2nd Amendment like we are still living in the year 1800 when most people had guns, and there weren’t any AR-15’s or AK-47’s. So you lose there pretty quickly.

      To extend that point further, let me know if child pornography is mentioned in the Constitution, when people were marrying 13 year old girls. Hint: it’s not there.

      This means that as a society we make and change laws that evolve with our way of living, not standing behind primitive Documents like the Bible, or outdated ones that don’t apply as well in 2013 as the Constitution clearly doesn’t.

      Of course though you had to point out that it’s a violation of your rights and regurgitate that 2nd Amendment crap that they keep spewing to make themselves sound like they have a moral ground to own a rifle with a 30 round clip without a background check.

      This is the point of the article being proven.

      • Matt

        What is it with this talking down to people? You’re acting just as bad as the commenters on Yahoo.com or Foxnews. Annie here presents her stance and remarks that she is open minded, why not give her the benefit of doubt and engage in a mature debate.

        When you open your rebuttal with name calling and seethe do you really think that a person will take anything you say seriously from there on in. You just make a fool of yourself.

        Just my 2 cents.

      • Jessica

        When an adult says things deemed stupid, I find that whether or not I offend them is not what we should be focusing on.

        She said she was open minded?
        1. She claimed all guns are a constitutional right, they aren’t.

        2. She claimed there could be something other than the massive evidence of global warming, there isn’t.

        3. She claimed dealing with Liberals is similar to dealing with idiotic conservatives, it isn’t.

        These were all closed minded claims. Just because you weren’t smart enough to see it doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to talk down to people. It’s freedom of speech, and I could care less about her or you demanding respect when soldiers die because people like her vote in nutjobs.

        So go fuck yourself you entitled prick.

      • Annie

        Jessica, I’m not a troll. Last I knew there was free speech (or there still is) in this country and I commented on something that came to my inbox. So much for being a troll.

        As far as “Debates 2 facts from the article and claims they can all be debated, sadly, the only 2 you tried to explain the conservative viewpoint of failed miserably.” I chose not to go down the list, then, but if you want me to… Discussing the 2 points wasn’t the point of my post; It was rather clear, considering the point of my post took up 2 paragraphs of my 6 paragraph response.

        I’ve held off on the insults, taken many, but I’ll say it: leave it to a liberal to miss the substance and pick out something extraneous. That is what is meant by the ‘dumbing down of America.’ Things have to be said in such terms that NOTHING COULD BE MISINTERPRETED by anyone; rather than DISCUSS various interpretations; and heaven forbid that we offend anyone.

        That said, I don’t INTENTIONALLY attempt to offend as has been done in several posts this eve. What is up with that? Something I learned a long time ago is that ‘unless you have something decent and constructive to add to a conversation, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.’

        Taking out of context, “all guns were Constitutional,” I did not say that owning any kind of gun was a Constitutional right.

        “She claimed dealing with Liberals is similar to dealing with idiotic conservatives, it isn’t.” I never said anything of the sort. What is gained by taking words out of context? I simply said that there are often times that I’ve had a similar reaction when I talk to liberals as the author does when he speaks to conservatives.

        One point I’ll make before I go (you’ve lowered us into the sewer and I chose not to follow) is that by speaking like you and many other liberal cohorts have done, proves my point, ‘that our government has succeeded in driving a wedge between the people, as it has intended to. We deserve what we get and when the USA, which used to be one of the grandest countries on this planet, goes the way of Greece, we won’t be able to say that at least the people tried to stave off the eventual.

        As far as ‘an entitled pric’k-that is said to what end?

      • Annie

        Thank, you, Matt. I sense you are liberal, but one of the liberals who is not far left and understands the conservative principles. You may not agree with them, but you believe in freedom.
        Annie

    • Christopher Felix

      Anne, just to rebuttal your two points, CFC are responsible for ozone depletion. Ozone at ground level can cause some greenhouse effect but in the upper atmosphere is responsible for blocking out UV light. Which can also add to warming. However, both of these effects on global warming are negligible. Holes in the ozone have nearly nothing to do with global warming as warming is mostly done from the red to infrared spectrum. Ozone is an issue about skin cancer and plant and animal die off due to UV exposure.

      Remember that many republicans like Bush sr. refused to take lead out of gasoline. Taking the non-scientific approach and the pro-money one. This has been linked now to sociopathic behavior, violent crime and well I would say Republican ideologies.

      The second issue, mental health is a part of it. So now that the Republicans have to fight for the gun lobby, mental health is important to them? They have traditionally defended mental health. Of course not giving people the tools of mass murder helps on the issue and does not deprive anyone of their constitutional right. Remember that gun control has been ruled constitutional. You’re also advocating for robbing the mentally ill of their second amendment rights. So you aren’t a constitutional purist.

      I would argue that public interest trumps the need for assault weapons in the second amendment issue. While I wouldn’t ban them, I would take the French approach and make people prove they are trained, mentally stable and have no history of violence to get one. I would also ban handguns without a difficult to obtain permit, considering most gun violence is is committed with them. They serve no constitutional purpose for defense of the country or person that a rifle or a shotgun cannot perform.

      Gun control has always been a part of America, there were limits on Artillery when the option were musket or artillery. There were also no gun zones.

      • Annie

        Christopher, your willingness to discuss the facts and not to throw mud to be what we should be doing more of. This ‘playing the blame game’ gets no one NO WHERE and nobody benefits. I appreciate hearing something I didn’t know about CFC and will investigate further. There is rebuttal to my points without name-calling and an adult discussion about gun-rights. Thank you, Christopher.

    • DR DArke

      And why, Ms. Annie Rethuglican Trollgurl who called us on the Left “Traitors” and “anti-American” during The War Criminal Bush Regime, SHOULD we have to listen to you any more? We TRIED that for thirty years, and you mocked us and insulted us and legislated AGAINST us. And NOW, you have the GALL to whine that we’re being “unreasonable” as you desperately send out your most mentally unstable members to (you hope) KILL enough of us that the rest will cower in fear…?

      You hypocrite – Go To Hell.

      • Annie

        I never called people on the Left, ‘traitors.’ and ‘anti-American.’ You ascribe to me, certain questionable thoughts that aren’t there.

      • Annie

        I’ve noticed that not very often are my points refuted. Ridiculed, yes. But many of them go without a response (which I don’t care about), but the point-maybe there IS no point in talking to liberals, because the’ve ‘made up their minds. Don’t confuse them with tacts.

        I’ve also noticed that Jessica, NEVER leaves thee reply option on to her posts. Does she not want to engage in real adult conversation about what is right for this country? I’d love to hear her ideas!

    • Annie, shouldn’t the question be: Do we like the effects of climate change? If not, what can we do to send things going the other way? We spend too much time on the “why” and not enough on the “now what?” Whether increased earthquakes and extreme weather are manmade or not, we don’t want them. We know manmade activity has a measurable impact, so let’s do what we know we can do. I agree that we need worldwide cooperation to be optimally effective, but even the US acting alone would make a substantial difference. In fact, it will be much easier to convince others to follow us when the world undeniable evidence of the big difference their actions can make.

      Well, undeniable except to Rush Limbic who thinks science is a liberal contrivance.

  • David

    I understand where this article is coming from, but this author is over-simplifying issues just as much as conservatives he’s dismissing. He’s defining the conservative stances on his own terms instead of showing the issues for what they are.

    For instance, most religious conservatives don’t believe sexual preference is a choice, just homosexuality. People do not choose to be straight, but they can choose to be gay, essentially. Plenty of them also know that gun violence and guns go hand in hand, but that owning a gun did not cause someone to become violent.

    Now, the two points I’ve laid out, while I believe are more accurate to what conservatives believe, are still promblematic, but they’re not so simplistic that they come off easily dismissible.

    • Jessica

      The only way to claim homosexuality is a choice, is if YOU are homosexual and chose to be that way, otherwise you are obviously trying to pretend you know people that you don’t.

      Even if it was a choice for you, it may not have been for someone else.

    • Heather

      “For instance, most religious conservatives don’t believe sexual preference is a choice, just homosexuality. People do not choose to be straight, but they can choose to be gay, essentially. ”

      No. This…no. You cannot have it both ways. Either sexual preference is a choice, or it isn’t. I have actually never heard this bizarre “YOUR sexual preference was a choice; MINE is not” argument. That’s…shockingly ignorant. And you say it as though it’s some kind of…scientifically proven fact. Do you really not get how ignorant and blatantly offensive it is to claim that you were born with your sexual preference and we were not?

  • Cheryl

    Well written article! @Annie—Really? Facts? Exactly what facts are you talking about?

    1. Guns do kill people when they are in the hands of people who should not have them. Whether you like it our not the federal government does have the power to regulate firearms & anything that goes with them…
    2. The earth is our planet and in our care. If we do not take care of the earth, we are doomed. Implying that the USA shouldn’t bother to do anything because, everybody else may not be on board is ludicrous.

    I know a lot of Republicans and it is hard to discuss things political in nature because, they absolutely detest President Obama. Everything and anything is his fault and that’s just the way it is for most of them. If he laid gold eggs and donated them to the USA these Republicans would still find something to b*tch about.

  • Laura

    “I know a lot of Republicans and it is hard to discuss things political in nature because, they absolutely detest President Obama. Everything and anything is his fault and that’s just the way it is for most of them. If he laid gold eggs and donated them to the USA these Republicans would still find something to b*tch about.”

    Sadly, I am seeing this more and more with my far left friends. They are becoming the Tea Party Left. You can’t talk with them, they just talk at you. When I research the things they are saying I usually end up on a far right site. What is up with that?!

  • Matthew

    Hi, I’m an Australian. I’m not part of your system nor can I do anything to change it, but I can notice that these republican people seem to be unbalanced. Now before you start shouting me down an screaming at me to ‘go home’, I’d just like to remind you that you are the most powerful nation on earth and its hard to watch you tear itself apart and drag us all down with you. STOP IT!!! Stop this pseudo religious (and sometimes actually religious) dogma, pick up a book and get some learning. Facts will win this fight, not just simply the loudest voice. PLEASE!

  • Errol G.

    I’m also an Aussie, and I personally believe that we all should get a vote in the US elections.
    We seem to get caught up in every stupid war that you guys do (some of which may be justified) and, who knows, maybe we can improve things.
    Having said that, keep up the good work Allen mate.

    • Jessica

      Annie-

      You are mixing my response to him with the response to you. He is an entitled prick, not you.

      All I’m saying is that conservatives are wrong. I’m sorry I came off offensive.

      The ozone is not what you said, and the 2nd Amendment doesn’t hold the weight you tho m it does.

      That’s all really.

      • Annie

        Jessica, Apology accepted; I don’t think I followed the threads carefully enough, so it was a miscommunication.

        But, “All I’m saying is that conservatives are wrong.” Conservatives are wrong-IN YOUR OPINION. I happen to feel that the majority of conservative thought is right and that liberal thought is lacking logic.

        Let’s make a deal, I’ll reread the current info on the ozone. But I can’t change my stance on the second amendment right now, because I don’t believe we have the right to play around with the Constitution other than to modify it through it’s established amendment process.

      • Heather

        Well, to be fair, Annie, Conservatives ARE wrong in many, many of their beliefs. Scientifically proven wrong. That is not Jessica’s or my opinion – that is fact. (I’m not saying the following things are believed by ALL conservatives, but these ARE thing believed ONLY by conservatives.)

        Global warming is happening. Period. That’s an “opinion” the same way gravity is an “opinion.”

        “Trickle down economics” has been warmly embraced by all Republicans (and many Democrats) since the Reagan era, and after 30 years, it’s clear as day that it is not, in fact, the “way to build a healthy middle class.”

        Creationism, a strongly-held belief by many Republicans (certainly not all, but DEFINITELY not any Democrats) is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, false. Evolution is real. I am a Christian, and I believe in both evolution and God, but I certainly don’t believe the Earth is 6 thousand-ish years old. I was actually taught evolution in my freshman year Biology class AT MY CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL; that’s how scientifically proven evolution is. It’s as much an “opinion” as, again, gravity.

        Abstinence-only education is a laughable failure. The abortion and teen pregnancy rates in counties where real sex ed isn’t taught and safe sex isn’t encouraged have gone through the roof, while both have declined sharply in the counties where real sex education is taught and safe sex is encouraged. Once again, FAIL.

        While you’re right about the fact that many people just assume everyone from the party opposite them are always wrong, and that is no way to approach politics, the fact remains that many, many outrageous and scientifically disproven “beliefs” and “opinions” are held by the conservative party. One is not apt to find such outrageous claims from the left. We are not always right, of course, but we’ve never taken decades (sometimes centuries) of scientific or sociological data, stubbornly refused to accept it, and attempted to force the rest of Americans to try to live by our ridiculous claims.

  • alan perez

    I’m sorry Annie but quite frankly most of us liberals are yes sick of Republicans because we are sick of hearing distortions, religious justifications, false statistics, fallacious reasoning, name calling, and pompous finger pointing of blame that it is us who are driving the wedge between Americans. We are sick of being told we are unwilling to compromise while we watch Republicans fillibuster every single thing, including their own bills. We are sick of watching people who call themselves teabaggers hold up signs calling Obama and any other liberal commies,socialists,nazi’s and other things. We don’t blame you when these same idiots make blatantly racial comments but we notice the complete silence and failure on those of you republicans who silently stand there amongst those same people.
    We are sick of hearing about wars on Christmas, Obama is going to take our guns, Obama isn’t an American, he’s a Muslim, blah blah blah. We are sick of watching Reublican lawmakers blatantly serve their corporate donors. We are sick of being told what “real Americans” are like and being told that we are not “real Americans”. We are sick of the vitriol of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly who have massive appeal amongst Republicans. We are sick of hearing about some obscure liberal who is rejected by us as being comparable to the like of Coulter or Rush as a pathetic excuse for their message.
    We are sick of debating the validity of climate change as we shovel snow in May and get sunburned in December. We are sick of people parroting the big oil companies fake paid for psuedoscience that justifies their greedy actions. We are sick of being told that our gay loved ones cannot enter into a contract of marriage because Republicans say that it will be a bigger threat to the sanctity of their hetrosexual third marriage than the neighbor’s spouse or the hooker on the corner.
    Yes Annie it would be nice to have some good honest debate, but unfortunatley us liberals at a disadvantage. Why? Because it is hard to argue against policy positions that are meant for bumper stickers. It is hard to bebate people who hold on dearly to false statistics and espout justification narratives for grossly unreasonable positions. It is hard to argue people about the Constitution or science when (atleast I) have advanced degrees in law and science while every Reublican I end up debating with believes either in religious explanations or the talking points of Rush, Fox or Coulter.
    Yes Annie we are sick of all Republicans. Sick of being told how evil we are because we want access to healthcare for everyone. Sick of being told how gullible we are by people who think dinasours lived 6,000 years ago. Sick of having to watch decent lawmakers fight tooth and nail for every little thing. Sick of hearing how billionaires need tax cuts while they ship our jobs over seas. I could go on all day Annie, but I won’t take up your time anymore.

    • Annie

      Alan, You say that most libs are “Sick of being told how evil we are because we want access to healthcare for everyone. Sick of being told how gullible we are by people who think dinasours lived 6,000 years ago. Sick of having to watch decent lawmakers fight tooth and nail for every little thing. Sick of hearing how billionaires need tax cuts while they ship our jobs over seas. I could go on all day Annie, but I won’t take up your time anymore.”

      Have I ever said you’re evil b/c you want access to healthcare for everyone. So do conservatives; we just disagree on the way to establish a system that won’t make us broke and accomplish the goal of covering everyone at the same time. If you, for a minute, think that because I’m conservative, I LOVE to sick sick children go uninsured or my personal fav, the ‘single mother of 5 denied treatment for her breast cancer..’ THINK, I have a mother, I could be that single woman, I could be her sister her daughter. Liberals don’t have the market on compassion cornered. If you follow that, I’m selling a bridge and some swampland…

      “Sick of having to watch decent lawmakers fight tooth and nail for every little thing.” Again for some reason you don’t think that sickens me? That the representatives we elect to represent us, can’t or won’t play in the same sandbox? No one likes it; whining won’t get us anywhere, so what are you doing to stop it is the next thing to tackle.

      • Alan Perez

        For whatever reasons I am recieving emails that notify me of comments yet I see no new ones appearing on this page. For this reason I do not feel motivated to waste time typing up a proper response only to have it languish. You really didn’t answer me Annie. You say we are not answering you but if you look at your original post and this last response, you are really not saying anything. You write “No one likes it; whining won’t get us anywhere, so what are you doing to stop it is the next thing to tackle”. What am I doing to stop it??? What can I possibly do to stop it Annie? What are you doing? Have you watched the video “the Koch Brothers exposed”? Try watching it to learn about where most of your stances came from. http://theeverlastinggopstoppers.com/2013/04/koch-brothers-exposed-full-movie/
        As for me, I left the US to enjoy a healthcare system you will hear berated by liars. I now run a business that includes no worry at all of health care costs, workmans comp costs, unemployment insurance costs, and many other savings that come to business owners under a single payer system. I had an MRI on my knee two weeks ago…cost…zero. If I need surgery on it , the cost will again be …zero. Enjoy your conservative utopia when it slaps you in the face with the reality it encompasses and you find out that the age for social security will be 70. Watch the movie Annie.

      • Alan, you say that I didn’t answer your question. I didn’t and I didn’t INTEND to. Mind was a comment and a COMMENT only, on something you stated in your posts. The ‘something’ I was commenting on was your contention that libs are sick of ____________.

        I didn’t want to write a whole new post, this is a blog-and not mine at that- which says that liberals don’t have that ‘sick and tired’ market cornered. Conservatives are just as sick and tired.. For some reason, liberals don’t think conservatives have blood and are human.

        What am I doing about it? I write to my congressmen, lib or conservative, I write or call my reps in DC about specific bills. I’m not asking for an answer, but when was the last time you dialed area code 202? I volunteer and am active in campaigns-and not for just Republicans. If a candidate has what I think i takes to do the job, is proactive, not retroactive (yet will preserve the Constitution, unless it is amended the way that is provided), I’ll support him/her over a republican candidate who runs on a record only, no new ‘substance.’

        So, in essence, I wan’t making a diatribe about your WHOLE post; I was just commenting on one or 2 salient points.

        About being notified of comments, there is a POST COMMENTS under where you write your response, If you want to be taken out of this discussion, reply to someone and under the POST COMMENTS box are 2 other boxes. Uncheck both boxes and hit POST COMMENT.

  • Donald Meinshausen

    The Democratic governor of Kentucky has reluctantly allowed the industrial hemp legislation supported by Republican senators Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell to stand and become law. The Tea Party supported this while the liberal Kentuckians for the Commonwealth ignored it. Is this libertarian trend now going to be moved by the Tea Party and libertarian Republicans and ignored by the Left in other states in a most ironical shift? Let us know what is going on in your area and tell the Left and the environmentalists to wake the fuck up

  • Michael Joseph

    You misstate all of the republican stances, listing them as strawman arguments or fallacious, argumentum ad hominum arguments. No wonder you think we live on another planet. Let’s just take your first claim: Republican’s believe climate change is a hoax. Wrong. We know that climate change is a natural phenomenon–every 10 years or so, it goes from hot to cold, then next time cold to hot. Man made “global warming” is a hoax, which is why the far left recast their movement as “climate change” (I’m surprised you didn’t catch that). Go back to 1975, and you will find a TIME magazine article that makes the claim that we are entering an ice age and need to bomb the two poles to melt the ice caps. The far left is obsessed with the weather, because if they are into control.

    • crabjack

      Good, Michael. You did a beautiful job of proving what Allen is saying.

      • Alan Perez

        I know right. Every ten years…. obsessed with the weather…. because we are “into control”…the arguements from the right are just mind boggingly lame. Instead of arguing about the validity of climate change we should be debating solutions or plans to keep the melting ice caps from desalinating the ocean. Arguements such as maybe building a water pipeline to deserted areas. Promoting the use of reflective coatings for roofs, so many ideas that could help fight the problem while creating jobs. Desalination of ocean water that provides fresh water while using the recovered salt to maintain favorable salination of the ocean or finding a way to use the salt to extract the sodium for energy.

    • Susan

      Sorry, Michael, anthropogenic (man made) climate change/global warming is not a hoax–therein lies a fundamental problem with the Republican Party. You’re regurgitating media coverage of climate change/global warming rather than searching scientific journals for scientific data. Every major academic institution worldwide is in agreement with human-caused climate change. There are a handful of scientists–generally well paid by coal/oil companies–who disagree, but that’s about it. The uncertainty that exists is how bad it will be when.

      I’ve included a link about the terminology:
      http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/climate_by_any_other_name.html

      • Heather

        Ah, and therein lies the difference between conservatives and everyone else.

        We link to resources such as freakin’ NASA. Conservatives link to Fox News, Breitbart, Drudge, etc. ALL extremely partisan and all owned and run by people who profit from the misinformation in which they specialize.

  • Michael Joseph

    Name calling is fallacious argument. Climate change is a natural phenomenon. I sometimes wonder whether some on the left actually believe that climate change is some sort of recent phenomenon. But assuming for the moment that what the left really means is “human caused” climate change, the evidence is weak. The movement, as I mention, used to be called “Global Warming”, but since it was outed as a hoax, the terminology was changed to “Climate Change.” The name change alone says volumes and should cause one to pause. And as I stated above, the movement used to be called “Global Freezing,” as is infamously evidenced by the 70’s TIME article. The article actually discusses bombing the poles to melt the ice caps. Again, think about that.

    • Marion Nelson

      Actually, NO; it was not the left that changed a thing about it. It was Jim Inhofe that stated ” we have got to quit calling it Global Warming because that is just scary, lets call it Climate Change.” and the LEFT just didn’t call him the uninformed big oil money grabbing politician he is. [r-OK] You can regurgitate all the nonsense and non-science you want but it still does NOT address or fix the problem. Now, you quoting some debunked speculation made by four scientists in the seventies makes about as much sense as arguing with Columbus while on the beach of Hispaniola that the Earth is flat. It was speculation much the same as I might speculate that electricity can be intensified by placing it in a magnetic field. No proof, no data; just speculation. Here are the links that will give you information to inform yourself on the REALITY of global freezing:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling
      http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-02-20-global-cooling_N.htm

      and a simple google of global cooling will fill you in on the hundreds of scientific studies that have since debunked this for the junk science it was. In other words; Buzzer, wrong answer but thank you for playing.

  • Michael Joseph

    Your second straw man argument: republicans say “guns have nothing to do with gun violence.” No conservative would make such a silly argument. The Second Amendment protects the “right to keep and bear arms.” The right to bear arms predates the Constitution and addresses the natural right to self protection, avoiding oppression and joining in defense of the state. Tyranny was of major concern to the founders. In a country where the state owns all of the guns, we refer to that country as a “police state.” The misuse of arms is escalating. Conservatives believe that the escalation is a direct result of the assault on morals, values and ethics. Big Media–especially Hollywood–glamorizes and promotes the misuse of arms. They portray “real men” loaded down with fantastical arms, leaving trails of blood and guts, and dozens of wanton murders. They often manipulate the audience to sympathize with the criminal murderer, with audience members actually cheering at the tops of their lungs. Stop and think for a moment why it is that we give Big Media a pass when it comes to the habitual glamorization and promotion of the misuse of arms. Free Speech is precious. We don’t need to elicit government control, but public outcry would certainly curtail the evil sold as hero by Hollywood. Lets pick on the culprits who promote and glamorize misuse and leave the Second Amendment alone. Hollywood could clean up the misuse of arms in a few short years merely by not promoting and glamorizing it. Until then they, not the Second Amendment, have America’s blood on their hands.

  • michael joseph

    The third position you list is poorly written, but I believe you meant to say that: Even though the word “Christianity” is not found in our Constitution, Republicans nonetheless argue that “our country is founded, and based, on Christianity”. I believe that you also agree then, that the Constitution does not mention “separation of church and state”, which is correct, it does not. Again, you have set up a straw man and illogical argument. And can we not say that you are the one actually arguing the reverse: The word Christianity is not in the Constitution, therefore, our country is not founded, and based, on Christianity. Your position is classic fallacy, drawing a grand conclusion from a limited point. You may want to draw upon additional sources for the rich trove of evidence that Christianity was and is an integral part of our nations founding and development. The Declaration of Independence, for example, states: “. . . to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them , , , ,” and “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights . . .” It is not so much that Republicans argue that the country is founded and based upon Christian ideals, since the primary sources make that argument; rather it is the far left which argues that the United States is not founded upon Christian ideals. And for that position, you must ignore history.

    • Alan Perez

      “Your second straw man argument: republicans say “guns have nothing to do with gun violence.” No conservative would make such a silly argument.”
      Rick Jones was on Off the Record , talking about guns and he said that guns have nothing to do with gun violence. While he can be classed as extremist by many he is also followed by many who agree with him.
      It is laughable whenever a republican goes into a discourse on fallacious thinking and then uses Christianity and Christian ideals as an example to support his position. If we assume that what you state is correct (which it is not) are we to assume that if the founding fathers believed in slavery, witchcraft or Bal that their superstitious beliefs should guide our current policies? Considering that the topic of this article is the Republican fight against reality any arguement that uses any religion, especially Christianity as a defence merely proves the point. Mitt Romneys belief that Joseph Smith was God’s chosen is as unbelievable as Jonah in the whale, Noahs ark, golden calfs, and the huge number of other superstitious beliefs held by most Republicans.

    • Annie

      Heather, there is no need to follow the link. It is only common sense that guns are related to gun violence. It’s how we handle the situation of violence committed with guns that is the subject and what we should focus on.

      • me

        Annie asks ….Who is this color republican who doesn’t exist, by the way? I’d like to know ONE of them. she says and then when given a link to a screenshot of alllllll the names she says Heather, there is no need to follow the link.
        Yes God forbid Annie that you be offered the answer to your question. Wht the hell are you even on a progressive page anyways? You make statements on global warming and then admit you don’t even know the most elementary facts regarding the issue. You demand names then refuse to view them. you defend a party that hates funding for scientific research inspite of posting that you have lupus. If you really want to make a difference why not try promoting this following petition instead of bothering us with your lame assed defence of Republican ideals which promote higher drug costs , increased profits for drug companies and abolition of a healthcare plan to give all lupus sufferers access to medical care. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lupusfunding/

      • Annie

        You ask me to sign a petition, that as a lupus patient and owner of a lupus blog, I signed alread. And what does it have to do with gun violence.

        You are the epitome of what gives the liberal brand a black eye. There’s no discussing reality with you like with Susan. I’m off to greener pastures, to please you and to take a thorn from my side. But not without saying it has been a breath of fresh air to DISCUSS opposing views with some people, but not with YOU. There is no room for discussion in you narrow global view.

        “.Who is this color republican who doesn’t exis” I zm curious, as I didn’t know we cam in different colors, like crayon in a box. Different races, yes.

      • me

        Thats what we want you to do Annie ..to go away. Atleast I do because I already see thru you. You come to a progressive site half cocked with lame assed answers pretending to be objective when you really are not. Yes I signed the lupus petition too. It has 250 signatures. yes go somewhere else where you don’t have to bother being confronted with facts. God forbid you should be called on any of your statements and actually be provided with links or facts. I’m sure you rushed to look up CFC’s and the ozone layer as you pretended that you would after having admitting you don’t even have a knowledge of the most basic facts surrounding the arguement. You give us a speech on what we liberals need to know about gun violence when you conservatives object to even the most sensible gun legislation. Yes our narrow global view…. said by the one who demands facts and then refuses to follow links.

      • me again

        After having posted that nasty response I would like to apologize. Here is the thing that gets me Annie. You come here to this page pretending in my mind to be someone objective yet on your facebook page you define yourself as a member of the tea party who’s favorites are Rick Santorum, defending second amendment rights and …Obama is the worst president ever…to mention a few. These are your real views Annie, are they not? This is who you really are and not this open minded person trying to find reasonable solutions that you pretend to be. You like national association for gun rights,conservative right angle,conservative intelligence briefing and a slew of others, The national republican convention and Fox “news”…all on your facebook page. But here you are miss lets have a reasonable discussion. You support the tea party which is a product of the Koch brothers who urges and teaches it’s members and followers to do exactly what you are doing now. You say you write several blogs and have a web site…but the web site has been shut down and the several blogs you have are devoid of any new material since 2011 and even then contained very few posts. Me. im exactly oposite of you…but I don’t go to right wing sites pretending i am someone I am not. Me I would love to see some real sensible conservatives that werent Koch brother puppets, people whom are actually for less government in all parts of life… people who don’t cram their religion, fake morality and destructive ideas down our throats. People who don’t pretend to be one thing and then turn out to be something completely different. Again I apologize for my nastiness… conservatives made me this way.

    • Christopher Felix

      I would like to point out to those arguing that our nation was founded on Christian principles. Our constitution, the highest law in our land and the governing document was not founded on Christianity. A quick read by anyone familiar with Christianity can see that the document was written in defiance of Christianity. Also, we have a legal declaration, signed by John Adams, one of the core founding fathers. His vice president was Thomas Jefferson when he signed it and it was ratified by a congress of founders. Article 11 of the treaty of Tripoli states “The United States Government having been, in no way founded on the Christian religion.” That is a declaration that Christianity in no way framed the constitution.

  • You’re not prejudiced but you just put every Republican in the same category…way to go.

    • HF

      If you vote Republican, you are voting for everything in the Republican platform. Period. So you’re in the same category as evolution deniers, rape apologists, and utter morons whether you’re on their side on those issues or not. YOU’RE VOTING FOR THEM, so you’re right there in that category.