Voting Against Their Own Interests: The Common Story of the Republican Voter

womenteapartyI want to tell you the story of Susie Q. Conservative.

Susie’s parents were from the rural South.  They were raised in households that had strong religious beliefs, opposed sex education and preached waiting till marriage before having sex.

Of course, as it is with many young people, Susie’s parents didn’t wait till marriage.  They were young, in love and one night just after graduating high school, one of their sexual encounters resulted in an unplanned pregnancy.

Coming from the background which Susie’s parents came from, abortion was never an option.  Instead, these two young individuals got married and prepared for their upcoming baby.

Susie’s father decided to drop out of college to work more, but still struggled to make enough to pay all of their bills.  Susie’s mother worked for a short time, but after a few months into her pregnancy, health issues became a factor and she was no longer able to work.  This left Susie’s father as the lone bread winner, which made financial situations even tougher for the couple.

Susie’s parents had no choice but to seek out government programs to help them pay for prenatal care, medical expenses and even food. Unable to afford 2 vehicles, and being that Susie’s dad was always traveling to work (on public roads), her mother relied on public transportation to often run errands and get to her doctors appointments.

Then the day arrives when Susie is born.  While still on cloud nine after the birth of their daughter, Susie’s parents quickly realize the financial burden of being new parents to an unplanned baby is overwhelming.  They turn to Medicaid to help pay medical expenses and utilize almost all means of welfare available for low-income new parents.

Luckily for them, having a child provides them with a plethora of tax deductions Susie’s parents can utilize to gain incredible tax breaks for their family.

After a few years, Susie is now ready to start school.  Her mother hasn’t been able work since she was born due to the incredibly high costs of daycare, but she has managed to take a few classes thanks to Pell Grants she received.

Susie attends public school her entire pre-adult life, where she usually rode the bus to school and received free meals for lunch.  Soon after Susie started school her mother worked on finishing an Associates Degree from a local community college and eventually got a job with the city.

Her father continued to work for a blue-collar wage, only a few dollars more per hour than he made when she was born.  He’s an honorable man who should be paid more than he is, yet his lack of an education — due to the fact he’s had to constantly work his whole life because he fathered a child at a young age — prevented him from ever getting an education.

Finally, Susie is off to college.  She first attends the same community college her mother attended, qualifying for Pell Grants due to her family’s extremely low level of income.

After 2 years, she transfers to a state university where she continues to use Pell Grants, as well as federal student loans, to help pay for her educational expenses and her cost of living.

While away at school, Susie uses Interstate Highways to travel back home to visit her parents.

During her senior year of college her dad suffers a tragic accident at which he is left disabled and unable to work, relying only on disability benefits to survive.

Soon after graduation, Susie gets a decent paying job working for the state and becomes involved in politics.

One day, Susie is asked to give a speech which went like this:

“I, Susie Q. Conservative, stand before you today an independent woman.  A woman who sees the evils of the invasive government.  I see the liberal agenda which seeks to make Americans dependent on the system and replaces hard work with a government handout.  I stand before you today a self-made individual.  Through hard work and dedication I made it to where I am today on my own.  I’ve never once needed a government handout nor asked for a free ride.  Our government spends too much and far too many depend on the system instead of taking personal responsibility for themselves.  It’s time we stand up to government and declare once and for all, “We can do it on our own, we don’t need your help!”

Susie—doesn’t understand a damn thing.

Have you met someone like Susie? Hit me up on Twitter and let me know.

Allen Clifton

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on Twitter and Facebook, and subscribe to his channel on YouTube as well.


Facebook comments

  • cruisingrightalong

    Yes many “blind” people who only see what they want to see or think. I hope to think I am not “blind” but am a seeing person.

  • jane

    This is exactly what is wrong with America today – voter ignorance. Learn your facts from the right-wing radio jocks and Fox News and never ask a question or think for yourself.

    • Garibaldi

      To your point: I just read today that many women in Texas seeking abortions recently did not know that their state had instituted draconian laws against abortion providers. In this case, ignorance is not bliss.

      • Ceunei

        Texas is getting exactly what they want then…many unintended children not raised well by parents that didn’t want them in the first place…possibly even abandoned to be raised by the very grand parents that couldn’t be bothered to teach their children about family planning let alone their grand children…I won’t even go into some families where a person is raising her great grand-children, too…bleh. Very easy to manipulate such individuals once the full extent of parental abandonment sets in…I think a child knows if it wasn’t intended. A culture certainly knows when most of its children aren’t intended and proceeds to treat them as badly as the women that bear such children…then it is assumed all children are unintended, and that is when it gets really bad…

        Men, of course, are usually let off the hook in such cases…they did their part, after all, by not bothering to wear a condom…

      • FlipSide

        Don’t THINK a child knows (s)he isn’t wanted … we know. I caught on to that fact early on. One day, I was maybe 8 or 9, I asked my mother if I was ‘wanted’. She turned on me and growled … “What makes you think ANY of you were wanted?”
        I found out years later my parents DID want my sister, but not the brother who came a year later.

  • George Nestico

    And the two perfect examples of this would be the Draft Dodger Romney, and Paul Lyin Ryan Romney food stamps and medicare Ryan SS and Medicare two things they want to do away with Priceless isn’t it

    • JANE106

      That that is typical of that lot!!!!

    • Girish Zambre

      Mitt’s dad depended on government support for a while as well. His mom actually spoke of it in a grateful manner.

      • filbypott

        Mitt’s parents had a shred of humanity. Mitt himself is a sociopath.

    • Cathryn Sykes

      Or actor Craig Nelson’s classic rant about when he was down and out: “I was getting food stamps and on welfare and nobody helped me!”

      • MsGood Stuff

        It’s called feeling entitled thats how they justify it being ok for them but not you.

  • Cee Bee

    If this was a typical case of young low-income parents with an unintended pregnancy and birth, Susie Q.’s parents would not have stayed together. And most likely, her mother would have raised her with irregular to minimal support from her father OR the government. Susie Q. got lucky. And so most certainly did her mom.

    That’s the data.

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      But Susie would never realize that.

    • Lane

      One of the main reasons for that, though, is that SNAP benefits are curtailed for married couples. We need to find a way to encourage marriage with the benefits we offer, if for no other reason than because marriage is such a strong factor in family stability and income growth.

      • Cee Bee

        Actually most research indicates that welfare benefits (whether they are SNAP, TANF, Earned Income Credits) are not all that significant in keeping unmarried parents with unintended births from marrying. The major reason for this is that most unintended unmarried births are to unstable couples. Among these couples, the dominant normative attitude (today) is that having a baby is not a sufficient reason for marriage if a relationship is poor. Benefit structure may however shift incentives for marriage among unmarried couples with intended births who would otherwise choose to marry. But I don’t know of any study that examines this directly.

        (I study this topic so I know it better than any normal person should)

      • Lane

        I am actually one of those people on the internet who appreciates learning, so thank you. I understood this to be a very significant factor in rural cohabitation without marriage. I would love for you to point me to any studies remotely related to this issue, I have a conservative friend who has hit me with this several times.

  • Abison Ace

    I love her, but I have one problem that bothers me, she cannot get my vote. Mr. B Sanders, governor Chis Christie , yes!

    • artisanr

      You cannot equate Christie and Sanders. Christie is still the same exact corporate kissing, women/poor/military hating waste of space the rest of them are.

  • Tillmann Puschka

    if we were in ancient Rome and voting for the next Emperor, these people would vote time and time again for the Emperor who would insist on throwing them to the lions.

  • MrWereman

    I am a strong conservative woman, a Palin “Momma Bear!” I want to empower us women by standing by the political party who would have men make all the decisions for me. Life outside the kitchen and bedroom where I am forced to give birth to anything my sexist, bastard, drunken husband spews into me frightens me.

    I cast my vote for the Red party… The party of idiots.

  • Jg

    I’m afraid this is all too common in the Southern states. It’s ironic that the northern states are seemingly the most liberal probably due in part to the higher more well educated populace. although there are still those on the gvernment welfare roles, the numbers pale in comparison to the huge amounts of money sent to the Southern states for all manner of system support. Yet the Southern states for some unexplained reason, carry on this notion that the government is somehow no good, interfering with their lives. No good deed goes unpunished and without that support, these very southern states would crumble in a heartbeat. When the saying ” pride comes before a fall ” comes to mind, i’m reminded the most arrogant, prideful, south will rise again redneck belief system seems hell bent into clinging on to a failed philosophy. perhaps it is time they are cut loose to fend for themselves entirely. See how that works…..anyone driving the highway system in Mississippi surely knows exactly what I’m suggesting here. Talk about voting against you own best interests ? Well you need not look any further than Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, for starts. I’m trying to avoid ‘ em all in the future.

    • DrPlacebo

      Let’s not throw Texas under the bus just yet. Texas is also the state that gave us LBJ, Ann and Cecile Richards, and Molly Ivins. Houston elected the nation’s first openly gay big-city mayor, Annise Parker. I’m predicting big things in the future for San Antonio mayor Julian Castro and state senator Wendy Davis. And Texas is slowly but surely turning blue; it’s a demographic inevitability.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        How can demographics ever turn a state blue? Democrats use contraception and abortion to avoid parenthood!

      • drjsbrown

        Yes! Imagine those dumbass Democrats doing things like using contraception to avoid unintended pregnancy. Crazyland!!!

      • TheodoreSeeber

        My point had more to do with the perceived “demographic inevitability” when Democrats don’t even breed at replacement rate.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Uh, I believe the forecast for Texas turning blue has to do with the increasing Hispanic population combined with a reduction in angry white guys.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Hispanics are pro-life.

      • fatherMcManus

        i’m hispanic and i dont care if a women has an abortion or not thats not my place to tell her what she can and cannot do, thats her choice who the hell am i to judge her for that

      • TheodoreSeeber

        So sin doesn’t exist to you? What would your Catholic grandmother say?

      • sanityinga

        I would imagine she would follow the Bible. Life begins at first breath.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Really? So science and sin and evil don’t exist?

      • cspatrick

        Sin only exists in your bible.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Then you wouldn’t mind me popping by to chop off your head.

      • OneofSeven

        It is all how you look at it – Adultry makes the 10 commandments – there is nothing said about birth control or abortion there! How many of “pro-life” (I use that term lightly as how many are for the death penatly) and have committed adultry – been married mulitple times – the hypocrisy is unbeleiveable – your are selective with pre-concieved “sins” and who is anyone to judge another.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        I’m Catholic pro-life- I refuse to accept divorce any more than I accept abortion. Both should be illegal.

      • Michelle Todd

        oh yes, because when my dad started abusing my mom and sister, the best idea was to force them to stay married. My mom was raised catholic as well, but she was also raised to protect her children… and that man living in our house was the exact opposite.

      • Your dad should have been committed to an insane asylum.

      • Kathleen Lambert-Stroberg

        You get more ridiculous by the moment. Maybe you should head over to a Teanderthal page.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        And you should go over to the bitch feminist page.

      • julebud

        *WOOF WOOF!* And we’ll maul you like a pack of mighty SHE-WOLVES! *ARRRROOOOOOOO*!

      • Yep, just like you’ve been doing since 1970.

      • brownp51

        I think my grandmother would say the same about abortion and homosexuality that Jesus did…..nothing.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Oh, so your grandmother was not a Catholic.

      • So Teddy, you speak for all latinos? I think not. Most of the Hispanics I know are pro choice..its up to the women and their God,…not to some govt agency.

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Yep. Funny how so many GOPers are “pro freedom” but only for those whose notions of freedom are EXACTLY LIKE THEIRS!

      • Kathleen Lambert-Stroberg

        Breed? We are not horses or cattle. I think what humans do is called procreation or having children.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Except of course, among liberal eugenicists like you, it isn’t.

      • julebud


      • Says the liberal eugenicist genocidal maniac.

      • Rebecca Kleitz

        Seriously–why is anyone even still talking to this idiot?
        I can’t read any more of it.
        Such nonsense.

        He wins the internet nonsense award for the day, though, I’ll give him that.

      • MarkB

        It all balances out, anyway — ignorant trailer trash rednecks will kill each other off through fights over a woman, reckless driving when they bring NASCAR to the streets, or realize that “rite of passage into manhood”, going to jail. SAW IT ALL when I lived in GA.

      • julebud

        Okay. I’ll work with you idea for a moment: We Dems, whom you loathe, are into birth control, pro-choice and having tiny families, whereas you Tea-brains are into squirting out babies by the dozens! Thus, by your weird logic, your ilk will allegedly outnumber us!

        Question…Why are you complaining?

      • Glenna Jones-Kachtik

        Democrats use family planning to plan when their kids are born so that each kid has a fair shake – WTF is wrong with that? As for abortion, we are mostly prochoice – it doesn’t mean we are for abortion only that WE don’t think a bunch of government yahoos without medical degrees in OB/GYN need to make choices for women they don’t even know.

        Most of us accept Parenthood quite well…we just think life begins at birth & that the birth should be welcome & that the child should have a good start in life with parents who love them & care for them & who can clothe, educate & feed them. Most of us – unlike the author of the abortion bill believe in PRENATAL CARE & we know that rape kits do not “clean a woman out so there is no chance of pregnancy.”

        You don’t have many real FACTS, do you??? Just Republican talking points courtesy of FOX news????

      • TheodoreSeeber

        What is wrong with that, is what I stated. Democrats are below replacement rate. Demographically, the party will die within the next 30 years, as the Baby Boomers die off.

      • Kerry Norton

        Yep. We probably we become out numbered as intelligent, well educated parents usually only have 1 or 2 children so that they can properly care and provide for them. Uneducated hillbillies have 4 or 5 or 6 which they can barely afford. The movie “Idiocracy” comes to mind.

      • Memphomaniac

        You have 1 or 2 children, cause you’ve been programmed to think this is responsible. Agreed. The cost of multiple children is high, especially for middle class families with 2 parents and both working. Meanwhile…the system is gamed to encourage multiple births, at taxpayer expense, for those targeted to remain economic slaves, on The Progressive Plantation. The Social engineering put in place years ago, was to dilute the European culture, in favor of a blended, “more fair” society. Wake up SHEEPLE!

      • Garibaldi

        While I agree with your point, I’m not sure characterizing Pro-Choice advocates as “uneducated hillbillies.”

      • YouKnowMe

        They’re ignorant, they promote bad science, and they often come from the most illiterate, poorly educated backwaters of the South. You were saying?

      • Kathleen Lambert-Stroberg

        In case you didn’t notice during the last two Presidential elections, the majority of the youth vote went to Obama. Young people do not buy into that racist, sexist, homophobic nonsense.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Yeah, instead they buy into Obama’s eugenicist nonsense that the only good poor person is an aborted poor person.

      • Gena Cunningham

        “Obama’s eugenicist nonsense”? Been drinking a lot of Kool-Aid lately, eh? You don’t have even have a uterus.

      • jelun

        Why are you trying to communicate with a troll?

      • Bob Ibbitson

        Oh my science you are way off base…well with reality. Please get help sweety.

      • Vizier of Truth

        That’s kinda insane. Women aren’t choosing abortion for eugenics reasons, but for economic ones.

      • Yep, because of the theory that economics is genetic and we need to reduce the population of the poor, instead of help them.

      • Valerie

        And what is the GOPTea party doing to help the poor? Absolutely nothing.

      • Removing the burden of big banks and interest payments from the poor and middle class, was the original purpose of the Tea Party. The only difference between Occupy Protesters and Tea Partyers is why they want to preserve civilization.

      • Rockman

        Projection. You meant the Republican party.

      • Harry R Omwake

        God you are such a low life piece of scum to even suggest such nonsense. No one believes in Eugenics anymore and most pro-choice people would (unlike right wing idiots) like to lower the numbers of abortions by educating the young on pregnancy prevention and by making available all the various anti conception tools available, instead of thinking that hiding them away from sex education and teaching them abstinence will really work.

      • If nobody believes in eugenics, then why are abortion and euthanasia, the methods of the eugenicists, legal?

        Pregnancy prevention is eugenics. The only purpose of it is to be bigoted against the unwanted.

      • Harry R Omwake

        You idiot, do you even know what Eugenics is and what it’t purpose was,? It was not a killing program, but like Hitler, believed a superace could be created by selective breeding, thus eliminating undesirable traits. Random abortions(not selective) and contraception, in order to choose when to have children have absolutely nothing to do with the concept of eugenics. If you do not know what you are writing about, keep your stupidity to yourself.

      • That is the modern form of Eugenics. Just like your Hero Margaret Sanger with her slogan “More children for the fit, fewer for the unfit” that is at the center of contraception and abortion today.

        Perhaps you are only a useful idiot. But you are indeed promoting eugenics, like it or not. And the proof is in the fact that 90% of Downs Syndrome children and 60% of African American children, never make it out of the womb due to your efforts.

      • Jennifer West King

        Bringing Hitler into this conversation is idiotic! He was a genius sociopath! Yes dear, he instituted a killing program call the Final Solution!

      • YouKnowMe

        No one wants war, so why is armed conflict legal?

      • It shouldn’t be legal. All armament should be for defense alone, and within the borders of the country. It should be illegal for our army to be outside of our borders.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        So, by your hypothesis, we should get rid of ALL guns because some of them are used in bad ways.

        Do I understand you correctly?

      • I’m saying that genocidal maniacs believe human beings are parasites, is why abortion and euthanasia are legal. And that the United States now has an illegitimate government that no longer protects human life.

      • Contraception, abortion, euthanasia are the tools of the eugenicist, not the lover of humanity.

      • Socialmedic

        … overpopulation, poverty, neglect, starvation, disease, slavery and war all the age old and CYNICAL and HATEFUL tools of oppression employed by those opposed to family and urban planning. NOBODY is convinced by your phony show of concern for humanity, we know you breed populations in order to EXPLOIT them for profit and to fight your greedy resource squandering wars for you. No man who has compassion for humanity consciously and deliberately fosters the conditions for massive suffering, slavery and mass murder.

      • So, better to commit suicide than to suffer this world, eh? Ecclesiastes would agree with you.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Do you take antibiotics when you have an infection? Have you ever had a cancer or any other growth, like tonsils, removed?

        Same thing as abortion…killing an unwelcome parasite.

      • Why bother with doctors? Medicines only shorten your enjoyment of life.

      • I don’t consider human beings to be parasites, unlike you genocidal maniacs. Hang out with Stalin much?

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        How many foster children have you adopted and raised to adulthood? How many foster children are you raising NOW? What were/are the outcomes?

        Put your money where your mouth is, or shut up about how women deal with unplanned pregnancies.

      • Not raised to adulthood, but my wife runs a daycare to enable young parents to work. We currently have 5 extra children running around the place.

      • Gary Menten

        The biggest nonsense I read here is yours.

      • Except you’re still a bigot.

      • Gary Menten


      • Which is why you are a bigot, because you think that calling a fertilized fetus a child or a person is absurd.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        It’s not a child until it’s born, even by your big book o’ myths, and it’s not a person until it’s developed a personality.

        Which is why we don’t use those words. YOU use them as words loaded with emotional baggage that’s useful to you.

      • Says the idiot urbanite.

      • Gena Cunningham

        By all means, keep telling yourself that, Theo…whatever gets you through the night.

      • MsGood Stuff

        Not as long as the republicans keep alienating the poor, immigrants, women &the elderly plus pretty much anyone with above high school education. There is a reason why they want to defund education and keep down the minimal wage.

      • The Republicans deserve to lose along with the Democrats- they’ve supported the genocide for political reasons for 40 years.

      • Rockman

        You have GOT to be kidding! Or worse, maybe not…

      • Harry R Omwake

        #1Most young people vote Democratic, as well as most Hispanics, blacks and those of Asian descent. so as the old white men die off, the demographics overwhelmingly favor the Democrats. In 20 years Hispanics will outnumber whites in Texas and they are not going to vote Republican.#2The fact is the states that lead the country in abortions per capita are in the old south. As a matter of fact the south tends to lead the country in nearly everything that is wrong in this country; obesity, teenage pregnancy, poor educational standards, poverty, aid to children, the ill and handicapped and the elderly. poor environmental controls. Sometimes it seems the south just does not give a crap about people!

      • They will until they realize that for every two of them, the Democrats have killed one.

      • Nknow

        You got it twisted son. The Repubs are the party loaded with busted old men.

      • I’m not saying that the Republicans are pro-life either; they clearly are not.

      • DeeDee

        This verbiage drives me crazy because it is so disingenuous! Everyone is pro-life. No one is pro-abortion. Some of us are pro-choice and some are anti-choice. Those are the proper terms to describe both sides of this debate.

      • If you are pro-choice, then you are already discriminating in who gets to live and who gets to die, and thus you are pro-abortion. If you were truly pro-life, you wouldn’t be bigoted against the unwanted.

      • DeeDee

        No, that, too, is disingenuous. What I am is pro-choice. I have no right to tell another woman what she can or cannot do with her own body. Period.

      • And thus, you’re discriminating against the unborn. I suppose you wouldn’t tell Hitler what he could do with his body either.

      • KiKi

        I am pro-abortion. There is nothing wrong or shameful about abortion; I am proud to be a part of defending this right and to have exercised this right, as well.

      • dlion

        YOu are so uneducated and misinformed. Go ahead, continue to spout what you hear on the right wing radio and media. I know many democrats that are not below the ‘replacement rate’ as you would like to say. Have you not noticed that the world population, including the USA is growing every year? I see nothing wrong with family planning, as opposed to popping out kids every year or so that you cannot feed, educate, or care for. OH YES! that would be the moral, Christian, anti contraception, anti-abortion, Republican group wouldn’t it? The ones who vote Republican, don’t want taxes, but want every state and Federal handout that they can figure out how to get. And most of them don’t pay taxes anyway, they have too many kids, work at low paying jobs, and what money they do have goes towards that big tall black 4×4 parked on the front lawn. Theodore, you are, please forgive me, an IDIOT.

      • Have you not noticed that in the last 20 years, world population has begun to level off? And that in fact, when the Baby Boomers start dying off at 100,000 a day, we’ll start seeing massive population decrease?

      • Socialmedic

        Then the conservatives will have to find a new enemy … they always have to have an enemy. I am sure they will find one, even if it is themselves.

      • Seems to me it’s the liberals who have been inventing enemies- but then again, cisgendered white males aren’t quite extinct yet, despite the attempt.

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        nope. You’re bearing them, and they’re deciding their parents and grandparents, etc. are WRONG on scores of issues….YOU are breeding your own demise, and it’s delicious….

      • My child is pro-life. The children we raise in the daycare are pro-life. And there are way more of them than there are genocidal maniacs like you.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        Have you seen the charts of human population over time? Since the Industrial Revolution, we’ve had a parasite-like population explosion. We’re moving toward 9 billion people on Earth, and the planet does not have the resources to sustain so many. Which means at this point, it’s far more responsible NOT to have children.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Unlike you, I’ve also seen the charts on what has happened in the last 40 years.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        Your assertions about the replacement rate don’t seem to make sense, considering the rate at which young people in America vote Democrat. In 2012, Obama won the youth vote, nationally, more than 2-to-1.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Those young people have stopped having children. Under 40 in general, people who came here under the age of 10, and people who were born here, are not breeding at all.

        The people who aren’t YET able to vote, are the real question- they’re the one born in big families to parents who think Obama is just another genocidal maniac out of 40 years of genocidal maniacs.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        I don’t think Obama is a genocidal maniac, but I do think it’s a good thing if the traditional Democrats and Republicans are dying out. Perhaps, one hopes, they’ll be replaced by people willing to upend the corporate-media-political complex — a much more dangerous one, in its own way, than the military-industrial complex.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        And on that, we agree.

        Even if for different reasons. I’ve been listening to a lot of left wing Catholic NFP stuff lately- and one thing they keep pointing out is that chemical and barrier contraception is big business, where symptom-based (rather than rhythm based, which is far less accurate) NFP is completely free, and thus is actually more appropriate to spreading in the third world. $19 billion in condoms hasn’t helped Africa, but NFP in Uganda has worked to lower AIDS rates and strengthen marriages.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        While I’m certainly no friend to pharma or big business in general, I think that while contraception certainly is big business, it’s also largely (i.e., when healthy and not causing blood clots and death) good for people.

        Selective abstinence (which is what NFP boils down to) — or, indeed, any kind of abstinence — will never work for people on the whole. It’s not a viable solution. People love sex way too much.

        More to the point, what kind of solution is this? “These people are too poor to afford our first-world contraception, so let ’em do it the natural way.” Instead of resigning ourselves to Africa’s brutal poverty and reacting as such, we should be spending our time figuring out how to turn the “first world,” “second world” and “third world” into just “the world.”

        As for NFP working in Uganda, that’s certainly open for debate. Uganda has implemented and experienced a wide variety of anti-HIV measures, including both the distribution of condoms and this abstinence education. Both sides like to take credit for the decline in HIV rates in Uganda, but in truth, it’s a combination of both along with the possibility of some number-fudging. Worse, NFP has come to Uganda along with — what else? — religious indoctrination and the unsafe practices involved with abstinence education.

        Check out the Human Rights Watch report titled, “The Less They Know, the Better.” Can’t link it here due to stupid Disqus moderation.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Thanks for the link. You can see comments in moderation before they are moderated, if they are directly posted to you.

        HRW has a strange bigotry against the fetus, but that’s normal for left wing “human rights” organizations that don’t recognize the humanity of the fetus.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        I don’t think you can call a different definition of the fetus “bigotry.” Personally, I’m in the camp that human life begins at birth, and therefore fetuses don’t qualify as having human rights. We have to draw the line for humanity somewhere, and birth is the most logical place for it in my view. If we draw the line before birth, we’re putting pregnant women in highly compromised situations.

        And I don’t think human rights have a “wing,” be it left or right. Violations of human rights are violations of human rights, no matter the politics of the people doing the violating. HRW has received its share of criticism and accusations of being “left-wing,” but I would argue that stems from the tendency of American conservatives to be highly unconcerned with human rights (especially when compared to corporate rights, gun rights and ideology drawn from their religion).

      • TheodoreSeeber

        I don’t know what else to call it other than bigotry. You take an artificial line like birth, that has no scientific basis as the beginning of life, and call people on the other side of it not people.

        There’s a much more logical argument based on what happens when RNA from the egg meets RNA from the sperm, but I’m sure you don’t want to hear about actual science, not when you have faith on your side.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        If your starting point is “life begins at conception, everything else is bigotry,” there’s no point even in having this discussion. Nor does that view have any scientific basis. As Swarthmore’s Scott Gilbert once said, “The entity created by fertilization is indeed a human embryo, and it has the potential to be human adult. Whether these facts are enough to accord it personhood is a question influenced by opinion, philosophy and theology, rather than by science.”

        Because “human being” is a term and a concept invented by human beings — not by nature — we will always struggle over just where that line is drawn. Science can’t answer it because nature doesn’t care; it just goes on and does its thing, and we attempt to describe what it’s doing as best we can.

        Just as there’s not a magical line of demarcation when a child becomes an adult, there’s no magical line of demarcation where a fertilized embryo becomes a human. It’s a matter of human perception — and, to some, of faith. (Not to me, certainly, as I have none.)

        Being that I’m far more concerned with the people who are actually alive than those who might possibly become alive, I choose to draw the line at birth. You may choose to draw it at conception, but don’t pretend that science makes it so, because it certainly does not.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        “The entity created by fertilization is indeed a human embryo, and it has the potential to be human adult. Whether these facts are enough to accord it personhood is a question influenced by opinion, philosophy and theology, rather than by science.”

        And thus the opinion is non-scientific, unless we go on the basis of the science alone.

        I don’t struggle over where that line is drawn, because I draw the line the only place it can be drawn- at conception. It is people like you who struggle, who must maintain faith in light of that one fact, and thus maintain an utterly irrational line based on opinion, philosophy, and theology rather than science.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        See, this is clearly a matter of faith to you. To you, that life begins at conception has already moved into the realm of an unfalsifiable fact, and therefore is a matter of belief, not science.

        A human embryo is not a human being. When you buy a bag of seeds, do you call it a bag of plants? When you buy a carton of eggs, do you call it a carton of chickens? No? Why not? Just like the human embryo, they have the potential to be plants and chickens. But they aren’t, in very important ways — not the least of which is that they don’t remotely resemble plants or chickens. And yet you insist that a single-celled organism stuck to the wall of a woman’s uterus is a human being? Based on what, exactly?

      • TheodoreSeeber

        It’s falsifiable. All you have to do is prove that a fertilized blastocyst has either *the exact same DNA as its mother* (in which case it is likely just an adult stem cell and not a blastocyst at all) or *is a different species than the mother* (in which case my entire argument falls apart and you win).

        Can you do either of those things to disprove my highly scientific definition of a human being that includes the fetus?

        “When you buy a bag of seeds, do you call it a bag of plants?”

        Yes. But then again, I grew up on a farm (see urban/rural divide below).

        “When you buy a carton of eggs, do you call it a carton of chickens? ”

        Exact same species to me- though I would point out that “fertilized egg” makes a difference, and most commercial manufacturers are *very careful* not to include fertilized eggs in a carton, as most people don’t like blood in the yoke- especially since I once gathered the eggs, though I can easily see how an urban population who has only seen eggs come in cartons and dead chickens in the grocery store could get confused.

        So my answer to both are yes, the embryonic form of a given species is indeed a member of that species, and it doesn’t matter to me if you’re talking chickens, oak trees, or komodo dragons.

        I don’t need the Vedas or the Bible or some Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his Noodly Goodness to come and tell me that; I’ve experienced it directly and the experiment is repeatable for anybody who chooses to try it.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        By that same token, then — whatever contains a species’ genetic material is a member of that species — amputation is murder. Scratching yourself — killing off precious, precious homo sapiens skin cells — is murder. If anything that contains homo sapiens genetic material is a human being, your definition of a human being has expanded — widely.

        So again, this comes back to your definition of a human being — not anything that can accurately be called science. And a one-celled organism with human DNA is not a human being, by my definition. If your definition is different, congratulations. But I don’t think you’ve ever laid claim to opening and eating a bag of salted, roasted sunflower plants.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Once again, since you seem to be a bit slow on this:

        A skin cell has the same DNA as the rest of the person it came off of.

        A tumor is a mutation.

        A fetus does not have the same DNA as the mother, and is not a mutation, and came about from an INTENTIONAL act, whether consensual or not, unless it was parthenogenesis, in which case it would have the same DNA as the mother.

        What part of this are you too stupid to understand?

      • Amy Blankenship

        Does this make it OK to kill one of a set of identical twins?

      • lindylou

        What kind of a question is that? A big problem with southern (mostly) conservatives is that they still confuse Sunday School with civics class. They can’t get used to the idea that the plutocrats who really run the country are pandering to this myth when in reality they couldn’t care less about your bible-thumping notions.

      • Amy Blankenship

        lindylou ifm as TheodoreSeeber says, the reason you can kill a tumor and not an embryo is because the tumor has the same DNA as the host, then it logically follows that the second embryo with the same DNA as its twin is more or less superfluous. Not sure what that has to do with Southern conservatives. But, whatever.

      • Charles

        Wow. I was enjoying this conversation and viewing both sides with an open mind….. Then you ended it so distastefully. How can you possibly tell “I Once was Andrew” he/she is too stupid to understand when they clearly have a firm grasp on both language and science. I am guessing you resorted to name calling because your argument had holes and you saw your foundation shaking. This is a good time for thought…. not personal knee-jerking attacks.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        ” they clearly have a firm grasp on both language and science”

        Except of course, they don’t.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        Two months later, I reply: Except, of course, I do grasp those things, don’t I. You’re the one who’s decided that as soon as genetic material has diverged from the mother, it becomes a human with human rights. You call that science, and the world laughs at you.

      • You most certainly do not if you think that poverty is genetic.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        Where’s the part where I called poverty genetic, exactly?

      • When you claimed that killing children for economic reasons is valid.

      • Gena Cunningham

        That’s a major problem with people that “think” the way you do, Theo; you are so totally convinced that you are correct and any opinion differing from yours automatically qualifies the person with said opinion wrong.

      • MsGood Stuff

        As an american you are entitled to your opinion however being as you can never carry a child what gives you and the republican party the right to dictate to others that don’t draw that same line? Pro choice is just that pro a woman making the choice that is right for her.

      • Ah, the feminazi anti-male raises her head. Pro-choice is anti-woman because it uses invasive technology to destroy a woman’s fertility. They always lie about that, so therefore the choice is always coerced.

      • julebud

        TheodoreSeeber is a troll. I’m familiar with Far-Right Holy-Roller jib jab and Anti-Abortion types never use the word “fetus” to describe one. They say “baby”. Also, Theo is spouting off stuff in such a stereotypical fashion that Poe’s Law is in full effect. Theo is likely a basement-dwelling teener named Melvin who trolls web boards for funsies. The fat guy in his icon is likely either his dad, his grandpa, his uncle, his neighbor or some random photo off of Google. If I’m wrong then, boy howdy, I’ve inadvertently trolled a Teabagger hard!

      • How is birth an artificial line? Its the BREATH OF LIFE that begins our lives. No scientific basis as the beginning of life? Hogwash.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        It is an artificial line, because you can have children as young as 20 weeks removed from the womb and survive.

      • Gena Cunningham

        That’s not a “fact”, Theo, it’s just one of your talking points that gets repeated so often, some ill-informed people wishing to be “open-minded” mistake it for truth.

      • cjmarley

        If you know the science they you’d know that the meeting of the sperm and egg does not automatically create a life. It’s 15 hrs before it even begins to combine the DNA’s of both organisms as the two are kept separate for a period of time. Then what about the fertilized eggs that do not attach to the uterine wall? How about miscarriages?

        When you are talking about a life separate from other lives…then you have to consider that the heart, brain and other organs do not even form until week 5. The fetus’s heart doesn’t begin to pump blood until week 6. The fetus doesn’t become (possibly) viable until week 23 and would not survive outside the womb. I don’t draw the line at birth but until the fetus is sustainable outside of the mother’s body then it is solely the mother’s choice what happens to the cells INSIDE her body.

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Actual science? So you think that a clump of undifferentiated cells the size of a pinhead is a human being? If so, why don’t people like you picket fertilization clinics, where hundreds of thousands of fertilized eggs are thrown in the trash each year?

      • TheodoreSeeber

        We do.

      • julebud

        Okay, TrollerSeeber. I’ll play! This will be fun! How do you explain Hosea 9:14?
        (King James Bible)
        Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

        How about these gems concerning those who have been born?

        “Now therefore, kill every male among the little
        ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all
        the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for
        yourselves.” (Numbers 31:17-18)”

        “…go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that
        they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and
        suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” (I Samuel 15:3. See also
        Deuteronomy 2:34 and 3:6; Joshua 10:28-40, 11:10-12, 14, 15, 20 and 21;
        and Judges 21:10-12.)”

        “O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall
        he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!”
        (Psalms 137:8)”

        Jeepers! It seems God in the OT was VERY much into the fetus-aborting, child & baby killing, girl-raping and general genocidal war-crime business!

        Now, explain each for us in detail. Don’t avoid my request and kindly explain why banning abortion, banning contraception, banning sex-ed, preemptive warfare, no regulations for guns or working conditions, heavy funding of our military at the expense of social programs & safe-infrastructure is “PRO-LIFE”?

        Oh, you can’t, because “Pro-Life” id not about “unborn babies” but about restricting women’s sexuality!

        Sorry sweetness, but women are made equal to men & we’re gonna shag & be sexual whenever we want! If a man can do do it a woman can, too!

        Sex is better than violence baby! Women have every right to tons of hot steaming sex with as many or as little partners as they please!

        Oh, and hun-bun we do outnumber you! We men & women who believe in freedom & equality FOR ALL! All Colors, Creeds, Sexualities, Ages, Abilities & Disabilities and so on….One race, the Human Race! Slowly but surely, humanity is waking up and the reactionaries are slowly dying out and the recent upswing of bigotry & fundieism is merely the last big gasp!

        And Jesus don’t like folks like you. It was your type of folks that had Him crucified. The voices of Annas & Caiaphas shriek through you, the Tea Party, the GOP and Fundies all over!

      • MarkB

        Your opinion, pal, NOT fact. the ‘beginning of life’ is STILL under debate, even among scientists. Religionists are already convinced, and have been wrong too often to be trusted. So, you call it logical, I call it theory.

        I’m not going to debate it with you, because all either of us have is OPINION, not fact. I’m ready to accept that, you obviously are not.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        No, it isn’t still under debate among REAL scientists. Fake liberal ones, who ignore science, is something else.

      • MarkB

        “Fake liberal scientists” — REALLY? When it’s the CONSERVATIVE side of the debate that rejects science in favor of things like “intellligent design”…?

        You’re projecting, pal, like most of the neocons.

      • julebud

        Yeah, I’ll bet you consider “real” scientists to be hacks who state we’re made out of dirt & all our ills are caused by eating a magical fruit after being persuaded by a talking snake. You need a Joseph Campbell clue-bat!

      • Nope- that’s you creationists, who claim that a human life begins at birth.

      • Wondering

        So now the truth about outlawing abortion is finally seeing the light of day. That is that the pro life’ers see abortion as a threat to their voting block, nothing more! More white women have abortions than minority women, so let’s outlaw abortion. I wonder what the southern strategists would think of a law allowing abortions for minorities only? Would abortion then be tolerated?

      • Guest

        Until the fetus is able to survive outside of the mother, it is a POTENTIAL life, just as ova and sperm are POTENTIAL life. By your argument, every time ova go unfertilized, or sperm ends up not fertilizing one, a murder has taken place.

        There is no logical reason that a POTENTIAL life should take precedence over the actual, living, breathing life carrying it.

      • So you’re bigoted against potential life. It’s still bigotry, and you’re still a genocidal maniac, no different than somebody claiming Jews or Blacks aren’t human.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        I’m beginning to think you don’t even know the definition of genocide, pal.

      • 55 million is a genocide.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        No it’s not. Abortion is not “targeted” any any particular ethnic group, class or race. Abortions occur on an individual, case-by-case basis, and are not conducted by force by a national government.

        And, most importantly, none of those fetuses were people.

      • Incorrect. They are carried out against the “unwanted”, that is, those whose parents are too poor or mentally ill equipped to raise them, or whose disabilities are judged too severe for society to bear the cost of their medical care.

        ALL of those fetuses are people. Killing them doesn’t make them any less people. And your horrific bigotry against them is noted.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        See, what you don’t seem to understand is that your ideologically driven definition of “people” is not everyone’s. As someone who’s already identified himself as a “pro-life Catholic,” your attempt to be “scientific” about the beginning of a human life is total nonsense that’s designed to support your personal ideology. Your horrific bigotry against the parents who will have their lives ruined by being forced to raise unwanted children despite being unable to make ends meet in the first place is a FAR bigger deal, as far as I’m concerned, than my so-called bigotry against unborn children who are going to be born into abject poverty.

        And, again, when you call abortion “killing children,” you’re identifying yourself as someone who doesn’t intend to carry on a reasonable discussion.

      • It is YOUR definition of people that is ideologically driven, not mine. Mine is “every member of the species homo sapiens, regardless of ability, age, developmental status, race, color, physical gender or creed is a person”. I don’t discriminate- YOU are the one who is discriminating in your definition of who is a person.

        “Unable to make ends meet” can be changed by OUR generosity and limiting OUR greed. What you really mean to say is that you don’t want to make room for more people, you want to keep more resources for yourself instead of sharing.

      • julebud

        Okay then, prevent unplanned pregnancies: Teach comprehensive sex-ed & promote contraception & safer sex practices. Adopt the unwanted kids. Promote a stronger social safety net.

      • Comprehensive sex-ed is against poisoning people with chemicals to remove their fertility. Comprehensive sex-ed teaches that the only safe sex is no sex.

        But I sure agree on the stronger social safety net.

      • MrLightRail

        Theodore, I could understand putting the beginning of life at the point in which the fetus can survive on it’s own outside the mother’s body ie:preemie, but not before.

      • Why not before? What is so magical about that moment to you, when the moment is programmed from the moment of conception?

      • Gena Cunningham

        “Bigotry against the fetus”? If you want to outlaw abortion, you are, arguably, bigoted against women.

      • MsGood Stuff

        While you have good dialoge gojng back an forth you miss the bark on the subject of abortion. Anti-abotion laws are about supressing women and dictation to us as tho we are some how less able to make our own decisions this is not the turn of the century women are quite capable giving ALL the information needed to make an in formed choice.

      • Nobody makes their own decisions. Abortion is about population control, nothing more.

      • julebud

        Which, as we all know, is good. & BILLION PEOPLE AND COUNTING! And even if it’ll eventuall even-out, it’s still way too high to sustain!
        Have you considered WHY or HOW this “evening-out” might happen?
        Gee…it’s like…people will decide not to have kids!

      • Which is what is evil.

      • Vizier of Truth

        As long as they’re not replaced by the tea-party bigots.

      • fistdeyuma

        Sorry Vizier. You are a victim of lies. I encourage you to go see a Tea Party rally. Talk to people. Don’t let their enemy, and the enemy of freedom, define them for you. Then to get a proper comparison, go to a Liberal rally. See the hate, the name calling, the mind reading, the pure politics of envy in action. Yes, even racism. You will see that the Liberals have done to the Tea Party what they have done to anyone who disagrees with them, defined them on ways that have impact but are in no way true. To see true racism in action you need only look at who is acting the racist part. Who used race to excuse failure. Who uses lies and slander at as their base of action.

      • MarkB

        Wow, really, YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE STOPPED HAVING KIDS? How can you know that? If they’re still of “child-bearing age”, maybe they just DELAYED the process…? You have the certitude of the truly ignorant.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        1.1 children per family in the United States.

      • Gena Cunningham

        I assure you, the majority of these people KNOW that Obama is not “just another genocidal maniac”, Theo.

      • PhatPfred

        Theodore, you seem to forget that the fastest growing demographic is the Hispanic/ Latino vote, they seem to have quite large families…and they voted around 75% Democrat in the last 3-4 elections, and the way that Rethuglicans are fighting immigration and a number of other issues important to this demographic, I don’t see you winning over that vote for a LONG time….and don’t even get me started on the black demographic vote !!!

      • TheodoreSeeber

        All you need to do to point out the problem with voting Democrat as a black or hispanic, is to show the statistics on what Planned Parenthood is attempting to do to those populations paid for by the Democrats in Congress.

      • Kenneth C. Fingeret

        Hello TheodoreSeeber,

        Written by Dr. Josef Mengele I suppose!

      • TheodoreSeeber

        More by Kermit Gosnell- hero of the new feminism.

      • julebud

        Uh, microbrain. Women went to a sicko like Gosnell because the LEGITIMATE, SAFE, PROFESSIONALLY-RUN CLINICS WERE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN BECAUSE OF YOUR ANTI-CHOICE LAWS! Believe me! Gosnell will be in the Inferno for his acts of horror…and I say that as an ultra-Liberal feminist woman!

      • 50% of all patients who enter an abortion clinic, leave dead.

      • Memphomaniac

        See. You’ve bought into that UN agenda. SHEEPLE. Enjoy your FEMA camp and your Agenda 21, 600 sq. foot home. What a DOPE!

      • I Once Was Andrew

        I think your brain is broken. Take it in for repairs.

      • julebud

        Riiiiiiiiiiight! And the Masonic Jewish Muslim Satanist Commie Nazi Hippie Lizard Weirdos from space will emerge from their mini Freemason-Shriner-cars and EAT US! *OOGAHBOOOGAHBOOGAH*

        *This is fun!*

      • Estproph

        Actually, you use the internet and Fox News to avoid thinking.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        The last time I watched Fox News was more than 14 years ago.

      • Cis

        So then you actually have to put in effort to be this uneducated? That must be some damn hard work.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        It is those who believe in what their liberal masters want them to believe in, who are ignorant.

      • julebud

        Right. You’re a 13 year old named Melvin who’s probably hangs with 4Chan and has the intelligence of maple syrup. Give it up, stupid troll!

      • And you’re just another genocidal maniac who has taken too many drugs.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        So, there are no more Democrats being born?

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Rather, they are significantly below replacement rate. As are all Americans. Mexico will resettle when the native Gringos are gone.

      • picuspicos

        aaaaaand….there it is! You are an idiot! Just when I was starting to think you may have a reasonable argument.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        In what way is noting that native-born Americans in the last 40 years have dropped below 2.1 children per family idiocy? And noting that left wingers have significantly smaller families than right wingers idiocy?

      • No, picuspicos was right. Youre an idiot.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        And you’re a bitch.

      • Really? Is that all you got…please F-U-C-K Y-O-U

      • julebud


      • julebud

        If Left-Wingers have smaller families why is that a bother to you, sweet-cheeks? My, what a fun little troll you are! YAS YOU ARRRREEE!!!

      • It isn’t- but it should bother you.

      • Gena Cunningham

        You’re so sweet, picuspicos… Did you read the entire thread? Theo’s argument was never reasonable.

      • Bryan Mayor B Kroelinger

        Would you like to tell the class what the replacement rate for Republicans is vs. Democrats. Since your original assinine assertion is that Democrats aren’t reproducing at a rate sufficient to maintain the party.

        So genious, at what rate are Dems reproducing vs. Republicans?

        Another question, who’s to say those young offspring of Republicans won’t be Democrats? Especially since younger people tend to be more “liberal” and Democrat.

      • Exactly right Bryan. I was born to staunch republicans yet all of my siblings (6 of us) vote Democratically. That blows the lunatics assertion that the dems aren’t reproducing fast enough. Don’t worry, the republicans are helping us out very well.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Well, honestly, neither are Republicans- but only Democrats use abortion for birth control.

      • kissyface

        that is a crock of shit. the majority of women i know who have had abortions are republicans who feared their bible thumping parents would disown them for having premarital sex

      • I never said that the Republicans were pro-life, only that the Democrats have killed off 55 million people.

      • kissyface

        that is bullshit. a clump of cells is not life

      • Once it has unique DNA and the ability to replicate and become a *functional* organism, it is no longer a clump of cells, and you are a bigot and a genocidal maniac for thinking so.

      • kissyface

        you are the one bigoted against women

      • I’m certainly bigoted against the type of woman who is bigoted against her own children. If that is what you are putting for as “women”, then I see no difference between a person who classifies the unborn as a clump of cells and a person who classifies a jew as a clump of cells.

        The Ladies that I know who are worthy of respect, celebrate motherhood instead of denying their gender and avoiding it.

      • kissyface

        you really need to look at the DEATH statistics for women before abortion was legal. Jewish people are people, an unborn fetus is a clump of cells that isn’t viable outside a woman’s body. its a parasite. my child thinks i’m a great mom. you need to stop trying to control women. our bodies are none of your business

      • The death statistic for males in the same time period was worse. In fact, women have always had a longer lifespan than men. So no, I see nothing there other than people who are genocidal maniacs making excuses for their mania. 55 million of your “clump of cells” have been killed because YOU are far too bigoted and hateful to admit to what they are: Human beings. I bet you wanted to kill that child too, to eliminate needing to be a mother, after all, there are too many people in the world for you malthusian eugenicists, right?

      • kissyface

        you would be wrong on your bet. i left my son’s father because he wanted me to get an abortion. i do not believe in abortion for myself but i will fight for other women to have CHOICE

      • The choice to do what? Why is abortion good for other women but not yourself?
        In fact, why do you consider abortion to be good?

      • kissyface

        i don’t believe abortion is good. i believe in some circumstances it is necessary. i don’t believe a 13 yr old who is raped by her father should have to risk her life to carry a fetus. i don’t believe that a woman whose life is endangered by a pregnancy should be forced to carry it to term. my mother almost died giving birth to me. she did the responsible thing and got her tubes tied but the surgery failed. she chose to have me but risked my brother being raised without a mother. each woman deserves the right to decide what is right for their bodies.

      • Necessary is always good. Abortion is evil, and therefore never necessary.

        Far better to punish the rapist than the result of rape. Far better to treat the mother and the child both as patients, than only one.

        Your version of choice, is murder, and always evil. It takes courage to give up one’s life for one’s child, yes, but what a sad society that no longer shows that courage!

      • kissyface

        you are sick. so a 13 yr old should die in child birth because some asshole raped her? when you grow a vagina, you can have a say in this. until then shut the hell up

      • 13 year olds have borne children in the past with no ill effect. I find it interesting that you think that 21st century medical technology is worse than 1st century medical technology, and that you are so bigoted as to ignore the opinions of the other gender.

      • kissyface

        my sister-in-law died in child birth. you are ignorant

      • julebud

        No. You just don’t like women who are equal to you, or superior to you, in authority & who red hot wet lady-bits receive unlimited sexual pleasure!

      • Women have always been superior to men, at least according to the genocidal feminists who want to kill all men.

      • julebud

        You’re just threatened by a strong woman with a strong sex life! CHICKEN! *BAWK BAWK B’KAAAWWK!*

      • Strong women don’t need to kill children to have sex.

      • julebud

        SO THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT! You don’t want non-white to outnumber whites. Sorry, sweetie but there’s only one race, the human race and diversity is BEAUTIFUL! Also, Mexicans are mostly part Native American “Indian”, anyway and these Americas are THEIR land, after all! Mexican are more American than you or I!
        By the way, I know you’re a troll and I’m just playing with you. I’m not angry at all because I’m having the time of my life messing with a stupid inbred person!

      • And you’re a genocidal maniac.

      • anti conservative

        this is just such stupid crap! educate yourself and stop making a fool of yourself. the ‘red’ states use much more federal money in the form of welfare and benefits for the poor than the blue states. try and explain that away.. you just make me sick. and btw, what in the hell is wrong with contraception?? My MIL who is Catholic and ended up having 8 children, was never happy with all those children, the parents resented it, but stood by their religion.. they should have used contraception, and the children they did then have would have been loved and nurtured properly.. most of them failed…

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Happiness isn’t a value

      • julebud

        Yes it is. FU!

      • No, it isn’t. Values require sacrifice.

      • brownp51

        This is a silly comment.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        It isn’t for a Good Catholic Hispanic. The moral relativists that took over to run drugs and meth labs in Mexico on the other hand….

      • regressive rightwing trash

        and your republican states have the lowest income in the land. Who cares about f*cking parent hood?? tooooomany people anyway- U regressive white trash scum would rather have a zillion poor babies than a healthy country and economy…. go to church U superstitious cretin

      • I’d rather see everybody have NO income, than one person lose the right to life for any reason. And we’re about 70 billion people away from carrying capacity in this world, so no dice there either.

      • I Once Was Andrew

        I’m sorry, what? We’re “70 billion people away from carrying capacity”? Perhaps we have SPACE for 70 billion people, if we spread them across the areas that are uninhabited today, but resources? No. Not at all. Not remotely close.

      • If we all lived at the standard of living of Bangladesh, then yes, the Earth has a carrying capacity of 80 billion. If we all live by the greedy, selfish standard of the United States, we’d need 5 planets to even hold the 7 billion we currently have.

        In other words, resource usage is dependent upon greed, and greed is fungible.

      • julebud

        Greed is fungus? How is greed a mushroom, Mr. Shitter?

      • Look in a dictionary- oh yeah, you won’t, because you can’t understand normal thinking.

      • julebud

        *BWAAAAAAHAHAHAAA!!!* Man! This troll is great! I’ve never heard a bigger bit of SHEER UNADULTERATED COMEDIC STUPIDITY!!!! Everybody! Let’s laugh at TrollerShitter!

      • Jr Huffman

        You personally make a very strong case in favor of eugenics

      • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

        Compassion & education are infectious, and convert (R)s with brains or heart into Democrats, you see 😉

      • Real education, the kind you get on a farm, not in a classroom or a lab separated from the real world, turns Democrats and Republicans into pro life independents who know that the banking, government, and medical industries are hopelessly corrupt liars.

      • You’re a genocidal maniac, like all Democrats. You have no compassion, and your education is based on myths, not truth.

      • Kenneth C. Fingeret

        Hello DrPlacebo,

        I agree that it is turning blue but so are my balls in the winter. I don’t even live in PA. The problem is time. Like I said before I don’t see any great changes in the next 20 or so years. Y/all are invited to move northward to join the relative sanity we have.

      • jelun

        Take a peek at what Texans had to say about LBJ and his running mate, JFK.

    • Jan Gibson Worthy

      I’m a 5th generation Texan, and everyone knows what an arrogant lot we are! Our distrust of the government goes all the way back to that Unfortunate Misunderstanding Between the States (I believe ya’ll call it the Civil War). After that altercation, those carpetbaggers ransacked us for everything we had, and our allies had enough problems of their own, so we turned to each other. Little did we realize that all we did was “Texan-ize” a batch of modern carpetbaggers, whose only agenda is to promote themselves and line their pockets. Be patient with us. We come from good pioneer stock and you will see this state turn blue once again. And then we can decide where we want to send those damn Republican carpetbaggers. (I’m thinking Mexico – they always need a few good farm hands. A little hard work might just do them some good!)

      • Bob Ibbitson

        I adore you for this post.

      • Kenneth C. Fingeret

        Hello Jan Gibson Worthy,

        While a appreciate your comments (lol at the “Unfortunate Misunderstanding Between the States) I do not believe that you can remove those modern carpetbaggers in any reasonable amount of time. I do not think that even a score of years will see much headway in that department. Shipping them off to Mexico might be a good temporary solution but the final solution is to send them to the ICC for all their “activities”.

      • MsGood Stuff

        I don’t no Ken the democrates are trying there best to get folks registared in spit of the voter supression laws.

      • dlion

        Is this post a joke?? Or are you really so uneducated that you cannot use the English language or spell correctly? Or are you just making fun of all those Southern Folks who cannot spell or even talk right?

      • MadameDelphi

        Over your head….

      • Geoffrey Harris

        You did not get it. Move along.

      • Phoebe Moody

        The TRUE VICTIMS of that “unfortunate” conflict at the time …. were the objective and intelligent Southerners who, in realizing that it was a war that the South wasn’t in a position to ultimately win, were innocently caught in the middle. Being those that opposed secession from the Union ….. they were hated and vilified by their neighbors. And simply by virtue of being Southerners ….. they were hated and vilified by the North. They were good, decent people who were thrust into a very undesirable circumstance through NO fault of their own. Let’s all of us just try to remember that ….. and THEM!

      • ShelleysLeg

        Jan, I’m 5th generation Texan as well (my father’s ancestor was the appointed German ambassador to the Republic of Texas). And I share your sentiments to a T! I got a college prep education in Ft. Worth in the 60s and I KNOW we will turn blue again!! Kudos to you!

    • AlabamaBelle

      Right. Southern States totally don’t have pockets of progressive-minded individuals in them. I guess I, a socialist living in Alabama, don’t exist, then. I guess cities like Birmingham, AL; Mobile, AL; New Orleans, LA; Miami, FL; Houston, TX; and Atlanta, GA (for starts) are equally as backwards as the rest of their respective states. I guess there are no individuals who can’t leave for a variety of reasons or just love where they live and don’t want to who are desperately working and pushing for change in their local and state governments, desperately crying out for help from like-minded folks from around the nation to help them in their battles, only to be dismissed by the rest of the nation as backwards and beyond help and promptly ignored.

      Yeah, that hogwash is unheard of in Southern states.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        There’s a difference between urban South and rural South. But it’s the stupid comments that make the news.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        There’s a difference between urban and rural period. I’m convinced there would be more pro-life democrats, and a lot less teen pregnancy, if we just required two weeks on a working ranch during calving season as a standard part of public school curriculum for all students.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Naw, as someone who delivers pregnant teenagers, I can tell you there is little that dissuades them from becoming pregnant. Even watching their friends screaming in labor doesn’t stop them, largely because they want to become pregnant for all the wrong reasons.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        If they want to become pregnant, how will abortion and contraception stop them?

        And in fact, doesn’t that mean that they are pro-life?

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        No, it usually means they are stupid. Being pregnant gets them attention, but after the kid is born, grandma takes over because mom doesn’t want a kid interrupting her life. Your idea that watching calves being born would cut down on teen pregnancy is a bit ludicrous.

        I’m anti-unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. One solution is adequate sex education and access to contraception. Countries that provide those things have lower rates of teen pregnancy and later ages of first intercourse.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        ” Your idea that watching calves being born would cut down on teen pregnancy is a bit ludicrous.”

        One thing they’d learn is that a mother cow takes care of her calf. That comes out rather strongly. Seems to me that is exactly the lesson you refer to them missing in ” but after the kid is born, grandma takes over because mom doesn’t want a kid interrupting her life”.

        Maybe you need to spend some time on a farm.

        I don’t believe in the concept of unplanned/unwanted pregnancy at all. If they’re having sex, then they’re signalling they want to be pregnant- regardless of what their conscious mind says, their subconscious wants to be pregnant and become parents.

        Which isn’t odd. Historically and in other cultures, many people started their families as young as 12.

        It is only our culture that is bigoted against pregnancy and against age.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Not bigoted, pragmatic. I see kids being born to young and stupid; they don’t have much of a chance in the world. But I’ve also seen young mothers who do a much better job of parenting than women twice their age.

        The fact that they are having sex means they want to have sex. It does not mean they are “signalling they want to be pregnant.” Sex is fun and brains addled with hormones don’t think straight.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Pragmatic is a form of bigoted. It entails use of prejudice against certain courses of action to attempt to affect the future.

        You cannot predict the future of a child. I can’t predict the future of a child. When I look at the most successful scientists, the most successful politicians, the most successful business people, a horrid and pain filled childhood is equal to a fully supported and happy childhood as a predictor of future success.

        Sex is fun and brains are addled with hormones for one reason only- to perpetuate the species. If sex didn’t produce children, it would not be fun.

      • julebud

        All the more reason for CONTRACEPTION! Since sex is inevitable, after all!

        Sex is for love and pleasure, not just procreation! Women are equal to men.

      • Sex isn’t inevitable.

      • Tom Carver

        Theodore, you have no ideas that aren’t religious based. Abstinence is good, education and contraception is bad? Really? yet you bleat about reading studies and science? You have no clue so please hush until you have actual data (ya know, form science) that supports your antiquated views.

      • julebud

        But we’re a modern society with technology & advanced knowledge, dahlin’ so we believe in babies during adulthood and childhood/teen years as “kid” time and education time!

        Poor thing! Mr. Shitter probably never “got none”.

      • You women aren’t- I’ve yet to meet a woman who can understand modern technology, and certainly never one that actually had knowledge, ancient or advanced.

      • fiona64

        And yet, somehow with our little ladybrains we manage to use the internet … the technology for which was patented by Hedy Lamarr (ditto the cell phone).

        Gosh, it must be embarrassing to be so stupid, Theodore …

      • Using technology isn’t knowing technology.

      • fiona64

        You might want to remember that, Teddy …

      • Given what my day job is, I’m reminded of it every single day. Too bad you don’t seem to be as connected to reality.

      • fiona64

        Your day job, if I recall correctly, involves slathering paint onto houses. ::shrug::

        Yeah, that’s really technical.

      • My day job is designing data warehouses for large corporations.

      • fiona64

        Well, my apologies for confusing you with some other misogynistic jerk. I’m sure you can see how I would make that mistake …

      • Only because you’re a bigot.

      • fiona64

        ROFLMAO. The guy who claims women aren’t smart enough to understand technology calls me a bigot for calling out his misogyny?

        Excuse me while I step over here and laugh some more.

      • No, all men are misogynists to you because you are bigoted against men. That’s what that name calling means- like all people who would dehumanize other people by calling them names, you’re just a brainless bigot.

      • fiona64

        Your asinine straw man assertion is duly noted.

        I did not say all men were misogynists; I said *you* were a misogynist.

        Do learn to read for comprehension, okay? After all, you’re the self-proclaimed “smarter than all women” dude, so surely you can read what’s actually written instead of just making shit up …

        Or maybe not, since you’ve already opined that women cannot understand technology — which is just as big a falsehood as claiming that I think all men are misogynists. I’m sure it would amuse Hedy Lamarr and Grace Hopper no end to know that some loudmouth on the internet thinks that their little ladybrains were just too stupid to understand computer science.

      • “I did not say all men were misogynists; I said *you* were a misogynist.”

        For acting like a male and wanting to actually, gasp, protect the concept that procreation is valuable to society (a mortal sin as far as feminazis like you are concerned).

      • fiona64

        Thank you for so amply proving my point.

        Since no one was talking about reproduction, I’ll just add “moronic liar” to the list of adjectives that describe you.

      • What do you think the issues of euthanasia, contraception and abortion are about, if not draconian population control of the people dehumanized into the unwanted and the unfit?

      • fiona64

        Since we were talking about your assertion that women were too stupid to understand computer science, I must wonder WTF this non sequitur on your part has to do with anything.

        What a tool you are.

      • The reason I consider women to be idiots, is entirely because of feminists clamoring for chemical sterilization and abortion. It’s all part of a whole- and it’s the difference between people who understand how our species survives and people who have bought into the Malthusian Eugenicist lie.

      • fiona64


        What a boring little Cro-Magnon you are.

      • And yet, the utterly brilliant feminazi, who is better than any man on the planet, keeps replying.

      • fiona64


      • And you reply again. How you must hate men to keep replying to a cro magnon misogynist who makes you snore! :-).

        And people claim to be smart.

      • And you reply again. How you must hate men to keep replying to a cro magnon misogynist who makes you snore! :-).

        And people claim to be smart.

      • fiona64


      • You know, Suburban. Ive always felt it was lack of education and lack of support for Planned Parenthood and other services that gave Texas extremely high teen pregnancy rates. But, it turns out its the abstinence based ideology that’s causes the most pregnancies. That ol’ Just say NO/Wait til youre married crap works as well today as it did 15 years ago when the mothers were having their babies at 15 yr old.

    • Christi Hulett Torres

      I’m from NY and I know a lot of people who fits that story to the teeth. So, the south is not the only area where people are suffering the stigma of being on “hand outs”.

    • Ok Thurston Howell, III- I’m from the south and I’m a liberal. Being a southern liberal beats being some wussy northern liberal like you every time in my book.

    • Kenneth C. Fingeret

      Hello Jg,

      Since the South wants to succeed again I say we give them our blessing. Let them do whatever they want in their freshly minted new country! Any sane person can always come northward and again be a citizen of the US of A.

    • Rick Shope

      Then stop f**kin helping us!

    • Michelle Todd

      eh, don’t cut us all loose… I didn’t choose to be born here, lol, I am quite alright with government assistance as I know that I wouldn’t stand a chance paying to finish my education without it… we aren’t all ignorant down here. (I’m not in the deep south but I believe my state is a mostly conservative one too)

    • Memphomaniac

      believe me. We won’t miss you. Have a safe trip, ya’ll!

    • Christi Hulett Torres

      Not necessarily the post above applies to my parents. Except, I am grateful for the help that came. My parents too are grateful. But now that their older they have this mentality. It really scares me. They wonder why their children aren’t republicans. Oh and I’m from New York State. So, it happens here too.

    • Edward NeSmith

      stereotyping is as bad as anything out there Jg.i live in the south and i do not resemble nothing you just described and none of my friends either. alot of times its not that we dont try and vote them out its just that it comes down to who has the bigger bank account. if we were some how able to rid our government of the lobbyist i honestly believe our nation would be entirely different than what it is today.

    • Geoffrey Harris

      Interestingly enough the Southerners also wanted to stay tied to England back during the war for Independence in the 1775-1783 time period.

  • Jg

    Typing on an iPad has its limitations…apologies for the typos 🙂

  • Mark E

    It’s true, it’s sad, and it’s ignorant. Susie also made it to adulthood because the food and drugs she ate and was prescribed were safe and inspected by the FDA, and the USDA. Stupid people.

  • Bridget McCurry

    Jeeze Louise! I am sooo thankful that somehow I managed to grow up in the deep south and come out with a reasonably well functioning brain. Seems nothing short of a miracle. ‘Wish I could say the same for my siblings!

    • gaildc

      We’re all grateful. Now we need you to spread the word and push back against the conservative ideology.

      • Bridget McCurry

        Early this year, with no job, I decided that I could get a job and exist, or be a political vagabond. I went with the latter. So now I pet sit and take odd jobs, just long enough to be able to travel to and volunteer at campaigns. The financial end is tough, but I spent 6 days at aSC Congressional race, 17 days in Boston for Ed Markey, and am trying to get my finances in order so I can spend the second half of Sept through the election in VA for the gov race. I keep wanting to bail, because I can’t make enough money to pay the few bills I have. I live with my mama since losing my house, so my bills only amount to $400/mo, but it still is near impossible.

  • Tessa Russell

    I grew up in Dallas, Texas and I’m a Liberal from Conservative roots. I’m not sure if the scenario in the article is based on an actual family or a cross-section of people in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. I think the story resonates, but it is short-sided to think it only happens in the South. States all across America have these same scenarios, with politicians and people exploiting them to their own needs.


    Nice piece of fiction.

    • enkelin

      I live in Texas and know many people exactly like this, Some even in my own family.

    • secondlook

      I personally know a whole lot of Susie’s.

  • babbleon

    Broad stereotypes do no one any good. If you know an actual Suzy or Sam, then write a real story about them. Real stories are much more compelling, if done right.

    Don’t we have any conservative elected officials who come from poor backgrounds and went to state schools?

  • Deb

    Whoever wrote this fairy tale has never actually met one of the many people in a similar situation with a similar background. Knowing, and being related to many, I have never once heard any if them claim to be self made or independent. Instead they say that “working hard” and paying taxes make them “deserve” government benefits. This is in spite of always getting a complete refund of taxes plus more in child credits and earned income credit. Yes, there is voter ignorance out there, but this story makes it clear that it is on all sides.

    • brownp51

      Deb, I know many Susies, and believe the article is exactly what they say. Even ones who work for the government say this, and regarding paying taxes….they think it is theft. Ron Paul has convinced them of that.

  • babbleon

    And while I am a progressive, there’s also a LOT of people like my husband’s parents: Same as Suzy Qs up through the ‘dropped out of college.’ But ‘Sam’s’ dad was able to get a job as an accountant, and parlay that into a career where he could support 5 kids, including private (religious) schools for many years and save for retirement without govt aid.

    In our times, there’s no way that could happen without the college degree, but for college-aged kids, a lot of their parents were able to make a living wage without a college degree, and that’s a big factor in why they don’t get understand what’s going on today. Your caricature doesn’t fit most of the conservatives I know.

    (Full disclosure – my husband got kicked out of one of those private schools for asking too many questions, and worked his way through college on the 10-year plan, with no parental support, and with govt assistance. But my husband is also a progressive and recognizes the role govt has played in making up for what his parents didn’t do.)

  • Robin Levin

    Imagine what would happen in this country if everyone perceived their interests and voted accordingly!

  • Tillmann Puschka

    Susie’s dumber than a rock lol

  • Erica from Dallas

    I had a life long friend that survived on medicaid assistance, demanding and furious that she had to have more than she was allowed to have and she hated Obama and anything to do with entitlements and was angry that some of her funds were cut. I wished I told her what a greedy hypocrite she was before I unfriended her..

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Her underlying belief is Obama is spending money on black people instead of “deserving” white people.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        Boy, has he got HER fooled. Obama only spends the real money on RICH people.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Just like every other politician.

      • TheodoreSeeber

        In BOTH parties, it should be pointed out.

      • Gena Cunningham

        That’s the first intelligent comment you’ve made, Theo…Congratulations!

  • Lou

    I like most of what I read on this web site, but this is not all that good. If you know a real Suzie Q, then post the story. I am sure you could find someone to fit the profile. Instead it just seems you made up the story to fit your stereotype. Use facts, but fiction.

    • scarlet_begonias

      you want proof? someone who fits that profile? Ummm PAUL RYAN!! Duh.

      • suburbancuurmudgeon

        Yep, the kid who relied on Social Security death benefits to get through school. But, no, he NEVER got any government assistance, right?

    • PictureThis

      Mitt Romney’s Dad used food stamps -there’s another Suzie Q.

  • iwannabeapirate

    Don’t loose hope. Alabama wants to have an 80% graduation rate by the year 2020. Better than the 53% they currently have.

  • Charlie Tetro

    If I pay taxes, I expect something from our government in return. If I don’t pay I should not expect anything from our government. Logical.

  • TheRajLOSAngeles

    So a progressive internet blogger authors a theoretical hit piece on a group of people he hates based on an individual example that doesn’t exist and the LIB sheeple (in all their open-minded tolerance) eat it up like gospel, spread the lies, and all pat each-other on the back for being so intelligent? You folks are truly the gift that keeps on giving.

    Meanwhile our government is 17 trillion in debt and constantly printing money, our public schools can’t teach kids to read, our government is powerless to influence action in Syria, Egypt, Russia, China, Venezuela, and with OPEC, and as the Obama Administration stumbles and stalls to implement legislation that they had penned, their main priority appears to be to foment a race riot.

    Thank you for identifying Conservatives as Americas cancer. Clearly, your group is full of great minds!

    • Sherri Y

      Wow, talk about proving the point.

      It takes a Conservative to first lead the charge for shifting money AWAY from public schools then lament the fact that these institutions are weaker and less effective than ever. It takes a Conservative to whine about our nation’s “influence” around the world while publicly undermining our nation’s Chief Executive on a daily basis. It takes a Conservative to call for “action” in the Middle East moments after their last “call” resulted in the longest-running, most expensive war in U.S. history.

      Which is exactly why the rest of us are on the verge of literally questioning the sanity of YOUR “great” minds.

      • TheRajLOSAngeles

        Right Sherri, proving the point……. because my comment has so much to do with “Susie Q” and this fabulous informative article. It would take a Liberal to ignore the fact that government is as bloated and well funded as it has ever been while championing the effectiveness, competence, and virtue of these institutions when the complete opposite is the reality. It would take a Liberal to call George Bush a “war monger”, “terrorist”, and “imperialist” while looking the other way as their Messiah conducts drone assassinations, COMPLETELY bungles Egypt, leads a coalition of armed forces into Libya WITHOUT the authorization of Congress and so on and so forth………….. I’m bored, maybe the Susie Q article is more your speed.

      • Richard Tease

        um, bush was a war monger, remember the ‘evidence of arms of mass destruction’ that Saddam had that no one could ever find? Its interesting that the party for smaller government wants to pass laws that actually lead to bigger government. Dept. of Homeland Security ring a bell? thats bigger government. You cant have it both ways. You cant choose to cut that and expand this and then tout yourself as cutting government waste. You are just pushing the dust to a different place. If I question anything you say and point out these things im labeled as a LIB. So what! Yes, Im a LIB. A Libertarian. Im also a fiscal conservative, I think the Line Item Veto was a fantastic idea, I also think that the model for trickle down economics is outdated. If you are going to spew out insults at others, then maybe you should go back to your tinker toys and let the adults talk, mmmmkay?

      • ErrolKuhn

        The obama government is the SMALLEST in terms of employees since EISENHOWER. And WHO lied us into a war that WAS NOT PAID FOR while cutting taxes (and shorting the government on funds) and started a war in Afghanistan that was also NOT PAID FOR. And you do realize that in the month of July, the government ran a SURPLUS for the first time since Bush squandered the one he was handed? Bush is a war criminal who should be in JAIL! Which is why he does not dare leave the country-he would be arrested when his plane landed. And what is it about other countries running their own business without interference from us that you don’t understand?

      • William A Weeks

        Sherri Y, ignore the Raj, some people are just loud, irrelevant and in the way. Focus on getting out the vote and prove how misguided and meaningless those folks are. You can’t fix stupid and arguing with them is pointless.

      • Amanda H.

        The conservatives rob the public schools, and it makes the public schools “weaker and less effective”. We could have told you that would happen. At least you admit it was the conservatives that robbed the public schools. Now if you could kindly give the money back so that we could make our schools systems better again that would be great! Thanks!

    • I Once Was Andrew

      1. I wonder why we’re $17 billion in debt. It couldn’t have anything to do with starting two huge nation-building wars in the last decade or so, could it? It couldn’t have anything to do with issuing huge tax cuts for the rich to cut federal revenue, could it? It couldn’t have anything to do with deregulating the markets, could it? No, of course not — it’s the black guy’s fault.

      2. Hm, our public schools “can’t teach kids to read”… wonder why that is. Bet that has nothing to do with the destructive No Child Left Behind law that forced underperforming schools to spend practically the entire year trying to teach kids how to succeed at a specific standardized test rather than allowing teachers to impart the general skills that lead to testing success. I’m sure it also has nothing to do with repeated Republicans attempts to hamstring the education system, like funding cuts, voucher programs, school boards full of crazies that try to put creationism and made-up history into curricula… it all just seems so very irrelevant, doesn’t it, when you can just blame the black guy.

      3. Because our government has traditionally wielded a lot of influence over the actions of Syria, Egypt, Russia, China and Venezuela? And especially OPEC? When was that, and what drugs can I take to magically teleport me to that time period?

      4. Right, the Obama administration is stumbling and stalling. Because Republicans just CAN’T WAIT to pass laws that Obama comes up with or supports, right? They just LOVE to work with him, and they would NEVER stand in the way of genuine progress just because his name is affiliated with it… right?

      Does it really feel good to delude yourself this much?

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      So where were you when Duyba was charging two wars on a Chinese credit card? You think that debt just materialized out of thin air the moment Obama was inaugurated???

      • Lis

        Sadly, yes they do!

  • KCMOfan

    This whole makers and takers mentality started with Ronnie Reagan and his “Trickle Down Economics”. The rich folks do the hard work and it will trickle down to the takers. The middle class and working poor are working their asses off to get a decent wage. Since (Walmart) came along and chased out all the Mom and Pop stores, paid only a pittance, which forces their employees onto food stamps, this problem has only been highlighted.

  • Marcus Hill

    Not to mention that she’s also a bald faced liar.

  • Jean Donahue

    After all that “book larnin,” she still doesn’t realize she has had government support her whole life. So sad, but typical. Nationwide.

  • Brenda Gabel

    I think all the conservatives should move to the south and all the liberals move to the north and then we cut all government support to the south. Wonder how long they would last before they started whining and crying for all the things they now take for granted.

    • I Once Was Andrew

      They’d probably just be happy to rid themselves of all the minorities — at least until they realized that now they’d have to do all the crappy jobs they used to foist on everyone else.

    • suburbancuurmudgeon

      Oh, please can we make this happen???

  • Richard Smothers

    It’s called “I got mine, so f**k you.”

  • Cathy Baumgardner

    I hate to burst your bubbles but I am from PA and we have as many of these people here as they do down south. It seems that many of them here no longer vote but when they do they elect some real doozies like our present Governor, child molester supporter Tom Corbett.

    You would not even believe some of the stupid shit I have heard people say here who are getting every kind of government help they can lay their hands on while voting for the Right. If it would not hurt those who really need it I would be laughing the day they cut them all off from everything. They of course are going to blame President Obama or the Democrats because that is what the right will tell them to do and they are good Christian folk who would never steer them wrong and besides their pastor, Beck, Limbaugh and the crew at FOX news says so too and we all know they know their stuff and are doing everything they can to protect the American people while those damn liberals are taking everything from us. I will be voting Republican….you betcha!

    I just want to vomit when they even start to open their mouths. At first I tried to educate them by patiently explaining things and showing them the proof which only brought more stupidity and parroting of FOX forth so I gave up.

    I will just keep fighting to bring those over who still have a few brain cells left.

    • I Once Was Andrew

      As a fellow Pennsylvanian: Fight on!

    • Robert Arsenault

      I’m from Pa also (near Harrisburg) and would love to debate the left/right issues we all face. I’m a social liberal and fiscal conservative.

  • Max Pfingsten

    For more on this concept, read “Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America’s Class War” by Joe Bageant

  • Dan Enlow

    I think the point of the narrative, which seems to be missing from the discussion, is that Red states disproportionately rely on Federal assistance yet they tend to vote for those who would take that assistance away. So the question remains “Why do people vote against their best interest?”

    • Democrat for life

      Their best interest are being taken care of so Republicans must be the ones that are helping them, NOT! It’s a mind set established early in life that because mom & dad say so it’s right so it’s right! Could explain the continuation of abuse & addictions since when people live with something long enough they accept it as the norm! If you don’t experience life without abuse, how do you know abuse is wrong? Religion and politics are no different! Methods to control people both of them!

    • julebud

      Wedge issue like “Those scary brown people”, “Those scary Muslims”, “Those scary Feminists”, “Those scary Gays”, “Scary abortion”, “Sex is scaaaarry”, ad-nauseum. That’s what gets the reactionary butts in the voting booths!

  • Aint nobodys fool

    Poor Susie Q;s Father an honorable man…worked he whole life and paid taxes for those roads and his disability check. He should have stayed home and lived totally off the government as most proper liberals do. I used to be a hard working conservative but I realized what a waste of time. Well time to go pick up my unemployment check and wave to all those working fools that pay my way!

  • MSNBC is my brain

    Great story…fails to mention one thing. Where does the government get its money?

    • chedar888

      There is a great disproportion created by republicans Trickle Down economy. So we need to squeeze ’em out of the 1% who stole the inequity cause by the repub. that is where we can get the money. Simple as that.

      • Democrat for life

        That’s what happens when the 1% are elected to Congress of America and our states. They change the rules we must live by but they don’t! Voting them out will level the playing field if each and every voter wises up and joins together. United we stand against the money !% and they fail to buy anymore elections! We did it with President Obama TWICE! We can do it again, again, again & again. Social media united our cause!

  • Wisdom

    You need to understand and vote for the people who will take care of your interest. Most of these people who are suffering have voted for the very same people who are inflicting the suffering upon them.
    You deserve a government that you voted for.
    Learn a lesson, or keep listening to RushL.

  • Edward Kirby

    I find it odd that some of my most Conservative friends are the ones who benefitted the most from government policies. One worked for Social Security for decades before retiring (and its doubtful he could have held onto a job anywhere else); another is currently a Federal employee (on furlough, and blaming Obama for it); a third is the son of a retired police officer (and has family members that are also police officers).

    This mindset is beyond me. Perhaps they look at many of their co-workers the same way the rest of us do — with contempt — and conclude that the only reason they have jobs is because of civil service unions. FWIW, I work in the private sector and I can’t figure out how many of my co-workers stay employed either.

    And perhaps that explains my attitude as well: I’ve seen abuses in the private sector that make me wonder how come anyone can think this is the best solution possible. So perhaps the cause-and-effect for both of us is a two-way street.


  • Buttholetron

    pure bullshit.

  • It_is_I

    That’s OK – some people I know – staunch “Tea Partiers” – refused to take part in the census — “it’s an Obama plot”, when in fact, these “Constitutional scholars” didn’t know that the census is mandated in the Constitution itself.

    Then I was asked by another Tea Partier, “how many signatures do we need to get a Constitutional amendment to pass?” — I explained the procedure (votes of Congress, ratification by the states). “Oh, I thought if you signed a petition…”

    Then another TP whiz kid = “Obama is not a citizen, I read it on the Internet because his father was born in Kenya.” Explaining the explicitness of the 14th Amendment, and also explaining that it was enacted not just to enfranchise former slaves BUT also the children of German and Irish immigrants … they whip out some obscure “ruling” (it was not a “ruling” but acceptance of prima facie evidence for a petitioner’s standing in a late 1800s case) …

    Then “how do you impeach the President” — there is also a process laid down for doing that, read the Constitution.

    All the answers that the “experts” are looking for are found in the Constitution which they claim to know and love and defend, and they don’t know what it is, let alone what’s in it or who wrote it.

  • Gershon Wolf

    Susie…is a dick.

  • Var Enyo

    I tried explaining to one of these types that they are the parasite their party complains about. The yelling about how they deserve what they are getting ensued. They simply don’t get it.

  • mg

    I am offended that this story begins with “Susie’s parents were from the rural South”. This story could and does happen all over the country – ignorance is not a geographic condition.

  • gailillly

    I have been saying this all along. The south and Midwest do NOT take the time and educate themselves on the candidates. They vote repike just because they are repuke. They don’t know a dam thing about the candidate and for the most part just like Romney he would have CUT and hurt them the most of anyone, but because of their lack of interest and ignorance, they continue to vote repuke and they will continue to have things taken away. It is their own fault and this is what pisses me off. Not the fact that they need help or on some programs but the fact that they won’t learn about the god dam candidates.

  • Arlene B

    Isnt this actually the story of dick chaney’s grandfather?

  • James Daley

    You can’t help stupid. I hate to say it……..they have to suffer before they realize there is a problem. Be a proud Republican!!!!! “Poor, Stupid & Hungry”

  • chedar888

    Susie is nothing but a selfish moron and the south has plenty of them. The voters in the south tends to receive public assistance and vote against their self interest.

  • chedar888

    My father in law is on medical and my sister in law proudly told me they are conservative. When they start paying for dental work, that’s where they found out its hitting their pocket book and start complaining. Now now what conservative are you talking about. You want public assistance for your father pay for it.

  • Edward Baker

    Stupid is as stupid does .She forgot her parents Trials and Tribulations …

  • Edward Baker

    Looks like if the Republicans get their way ,the southern republicans will die off and shrink due to No Help from The government .this could be a good thing.

  • sedgwick

    I agree completely, but the tense changes, they burn.

  • glebec

    Economic derangement syndrome…

  • Lane

    This is an insightful piece — I agree with both its premises and its conclusions. But we have to find a way to say this without appearing to be so condescending.before we take this message to its target audience. I think some of the statistics on SNAP benefits, such as the fact that white children are by far the greatest constituency served, would be a good place to start.


    there is a thing, my 14 yr old daughter told me about, that she studied in class, I think she referred to it as Hereditary Voting, if your parents voted for a particular party then you do too. You dont think to look at who the candidate is or the cause and effect of your vote, you just vote this way or that because you are conditioned to vote that way by your parents. What is wrong, is we as a society have become apathetic to the political process. We feel powerless in the light of those who have the money and the power. Laws were enacted by the wealthy to protect their interests, not yours. Politics are the same way.

    • Lis

      I think it has to do with social settings, as well. My parents (Dems) taught me a lot when I was growing up about helping others. At 16, I started going to a Baptist church (thank God I’m out of that). All my friends were Republicans. If you didn’t vote republican, you were going against God. At 18, I became disabled. I voted republican 3 times- all while I was still in Baptist churches. Then I started going less because the hypocrisy of my friends started popping out all over the place when they learned of my disability and me being on disability. The more I dropped the friends to told me I “didn’t have enough faith” and replaced them with friends who support me just as I am and want to help me out, the more I started thinking. Being disabled, I’ve learned a lot about the concerns of the people who are sort of “left behind” or “invisible” (ie single mothers, disabled vets, the elderly, children, etc). I voted D in the last election and unless republicans change their party entirely, I will prob never vote republican again. I’ve seen too much of the struggle of the “invisible ones.”

      • Democrat for life

        Your reference to the Baptist Church fits my brother perfectly! He grew up a Democrat, turned Republican I’m sure due to his Baptist indoctrination at an early age after leaving home. School teacher wife, he worked for the court system, both retired with pensions. My father preached a Republican never helped the common man and he was right about that his whole life. We grew up knowing if we wanted to succeed we had to do it ourselves. Public school taught us well. Life has taught us to keep on fighting to keep up. Republican boss’s have taught us you will be rewarded to get you on board, after that you get what we give you. Hit the road is you don’t like it!

  • Nathan Blackmon

    My mom is worse than this. She is one of the Christians that has at least nine copies of the Holy Bible but has never, ever, even attempted to read it. She then tells everyone that the Republicans are the party of God. She has stated many times that the Democrats are Satan’s Party. She claims that everything the Democrats am not kidding propose is demonic and should therefore be done away with. I am not kidding either people. I live in a small town in the South and 85% of the population is this way.

  • sharongibson

    In his remarks following the president’s State of the Union Address, Marc Rubio comments how he benefitted from government help getting an education, and in the same breath criticized the president’s proposal to make education available to everyone who wants one. Yet another member of the “I’ve got mine, screw you if you don’t have yours” crowd.

  • Nceguyaz

    What a bunch of BS….her family feed of the Goverment Tit to get buy and so did she feeding right off the Goverment Tit to get pellet grant to go school…..there nothing about same made about the lame ass Bitch…..Give me a break….

  • Karla Ibsen

    This goes beyond ignorance! This is active denial or willful group-wide self-destructiveness. What motivates this odd behavior?

  • Gabriel Gentile

    Isn’t that kind of straw-manning?
    I know I don’t like it when right-wing pundits do it.

  • Michael Wylie

    I moved to AZ in 2009. (And back to NY later). The first moth I lived in a motel, just to get my bearings. Next door to me was a whole family living there. (Husband, wife, & two kids.) Turns out, they lost their home to foreclosure during the Great Recession. One day, as we were talking, while standing outside her motel room, she called herself a Small Government type. I couldn’t help but wonder if she knew that a lack of regulations was the reason for the massive foreclosures across the country, that caused the domino effect that would later involve the entire world.

  • Anthony Jones

    This just isn’t a southern thing, it’s a also a mid western mindset also, I worked this a lot of soldiers who rant and rave about everything from education to healthcare and if it wasn’t for the 2 wars because their education and drug use would never be allowed to join pre-911 Armed forces. I grew up inner city, live in the city and some these peoples backgrounds would scare the modern “urban thug”. As a government worker I ‘am also characterized as lazy by people who are also allowed to slide into jobs without my education and not even bother to pursue their education because they will be hired any way (Edward Snowden).

    P.S. Did not know Gangsta rap existed until I heard from my very suburban drivers in the Marine Corps (but they’re all afraid to see the sites in Washington,DC.

  • R. Long

    Nothing riles me up more than these Susie and Sammy Q’s of the nation who think they did it all on their own! Then they become Republicans!!!

  • shopper2

    Just for the record – I don’t think Democrats and Republicans are ‘born’. Not all children follow the politics of their parents, some become the other as a form of rebellion and others are educated and follow the beliefs that they develop on their own. The parties don’t stay the same either – are today’s Republicans really the party of Abraham Lincoln?

  • Cathryn Sykes

    It’s like those business owners who claim “The government never helped me!” Really? Did you and your employees learn to read, write and do math in public schools? Then the government helped you! Do you do cash transactions? Those slips of green-inked paper are worthless without the “full faith and credit” of the American government behind them. Do you use contracts? Employment contracts, leases, deeds, loan contracts, etc? Without the government judicial system to back them, they’re worthless. Do you only drive on private roads? If you use city, county, state or interstate roads for receiving and shipping goods, for example, the government helps you! I really could go on and on like this…..
    I’d love to drop a few dozen of these Randian whiners into a howling wilderness and see how long it would take them to starve to death. I figure a month, tops.

  • David

    Good grief, the “Common Story” of the Republican Voter? Really? And how many “Common Republican Voters” does the author know that have a background story like this, honestly? I’m sure he’ll say “tons!!” but in reality, probably very very few, if not zero. If I cared enough, I’m sure I could make up a silly fictional story about the common “John Q. Liberal” that’s every bit as damning. This kind of commentary does absolutely nothing but stir the pot of hate and does nothing to move any kind of discussion forward.

    • IsistheCat

      I don’t think you could make up a “John Q. Liberal” story that demonstrates the lack of understanding about how government has helped them like this one does.
      Yes, there are “tons” of stories – many at the tea-party events where people are screaming “Keep your hands off my Medicare!

  • Rob Smolka

    Amen, brother… and I’m an atheist!

  • Shane Moran

    There are too many Republicans like Susie.

  • satin8876

    I know Teapublican morons who would fit into this story.

  • Greg Zajac

    This is why Susie’s mother should have had an abortion!

  • Liz Myers-Chamberlin

    This is a familiar story. Only here, the dots are connected, so we can truly appreciate the benefits of our civil society.

  • MarkB

    This article proves the bullet comments about the GOPigs:

    1. Any woman/minority/middle-class-or-below citizen who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.
    2. The ridiculousness of the Teabaggers with the signs: “KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE!”

  • Everybodhi

    Susie got an abortion while she was in college, her parents paid for it, even though they are staunchly, “pro life”. It was different for Susie, but, they feel awful about it, and are resolved to work against other young women making the same mistake.

  • Sanguinocrat

    Classic story. I see it all day long.

  • dennisbohner

    While I do despise the intellectual minority, how big of a straw Goliath did you toss into your pissy fire.
    Find, at least, a real anecdote to expound on. Bad BS makes no cases.

  • Dale Blackstock

    Clarence Thomas benefited from Affirmative Action, but he votes to do away with it. And, he probably had other govt. programs that fed him, housed him, etc. Now, he sits on his ass and does absolutely nothing but sit on his ass and take money from us and will take a lot of money after he leaves govt. service. If pay was based on merit, he would be destitute. A boil on the butt of humanity.

  • jrieves

    If you wanted to write something that makes progressives feel better about being smarter than those working-class dopes who vote Republican, this was great. If you hoped to write something that might actually reach some working-class folks and persuade them to think about what they’re doing, you missed the mark…, by a long shot. My family pretty much fits the profile of the one you described except both of my children were planned. But, I didn’t go to college, had a blue-collar job (firefighter), my wife stayed home for the first few years and things were very tight. As tight as it was, there were no food stamps, no Section 8, no Medicaid I earned just enough not to qualify for any of those things Of course, I didn’t make enough as a firefighter to pay all the bills. Which meant I had to work a second job, putting in as many 80-90 hours a week (total). When it came time for my oldest to go to college, there were no Pell Grants and I couldn’t afford to pay for it out of pocket, so she got student loans and a buttload of debt. Public transportation sucks in where I live, so that wasn’t any help. Did I do all on my own? Of course not. I went to public school, drove on public highways, even collected a paycheck from a gov’t job. But, I still worked my ass off for what I got. Do I vote Republican? I used to, but not anymore.

    I tell you all this so you’ll where I’m coming from when I say white, working-class people vote Republican because the Republicans listen to them. They listen to their woes and tell them it’s not their fault. They tell them that the Democrats are taking their money and their jobs and giving them to minorities.They tell them that liberals don’t care about you, but we do. They tell them that if they keep working hard and voting Republican, they can be rich one day, too. Of course, it’s all bullshit, but it’s bullshit they want to hear. And, I gotta say, things like this, which is a long way from the reality of most working peoples lives, is not an active countermeasure.

  • cheryl anne

    This is a pathetic parable. Yes, many like Susie exist, but how were their minds turned to vote against their own best interests? This just makes pokes fun at an imaginary, ignorant redneck.

  • sallie matthews


  • Rick Shope

    Debate Club was never as funny as the comments here… and some of us had shotguns in the back window of our trucks in the parking lot.

  • Barbara Harrison

    Susie is STUPID. She has done NOTHING, learned NOTHING and will remain a NOTHING to her chosen political party forevermore. And she did NOT live happily ever after.

  • Var Enyo

    Sounds mighty familiar. So many baggers around here have done exactly that. Food stamps etc. and even one who cheated to get on Social Security after losing her welfare. But of course THEY deserve whatever they are receiving.

  • Jerry

    “I’ve been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No.”

    – Republican Actor Craig T. Nelson

    This is the typical Republican/Libertarian mindset. It is alright when they receive government assistance, but everyone who receives it is just a lazy bum.

  • brownp51

    Brilliant, and like so many people I know.

  • fairness_rules

    I am surrounded by people that think like this! They either can’t see or choose to ignore the hypocrisy. It is indeed mind boggling!

  • Nknow


  • Nknow

    The social safety net is a ladder. Conservatives use that ladder, but when they get to the top they want to set that ladder on fire, and shove it off the ramparts, all the time laughing at the fools, who didn’t have the fortune to beat them to the top.

  • dlion

    all too common of a story, and also the I have mine but do not want you to have anything….

  • fistdeyuma

    You take examples of a hand up and use them to excuse hand outs. No one is objecting to helping people. What we object to is providing a lifetime of dependency. Susie is working. Her parents are married and working. She was taught values and is working to help others attain the success she had had. Compare that to the millions with no training, no experience, no ambition and no hope, They are told that it is not their fault, is it . Kids are priced out of the workforce with minimum wage laws that were created solely to prevent Blacks from competing with Unions.
    It is you who are ignorant as to the destructive effect your wonderful big one size fits all solutions have caused. You worked hard to find seemingly good examples while ignoring the far worse and more factual examples. You ignore the fact that we can no longer afford the cost. You ignore everything that might shed light on the real problem, preferring to cover the bad parts with a tarp, shining a light and praising parts that seem to work. Ignore the man behind the curtain, look at the shiny objects.
    You forget that before the era of big government the majority of people did just fine. People had upward mobility. The poor moved to middle class and the middle class become rich. Since the era of big government the numbers of people not doing well have expanded to unbelievable numbers, the opportunity to advance is hindered if not stopped. You claim the answer is for government to do even more?
    Liberals are classic non-thinkers. They let stooges like this writer lead you into thinking the other people have no case, because you never hear it. Would you let a child have everything he or she wanted, even if you could afford it? Of course not. You make them earn everything they get. No one grows up well if everything is done for them. No one advances if they are never allowed to take risks. Each person should be allowed his or her own path to success, and yes, even failure. It is what freedom is all about.
    Lastly government had no money to give to anyone. In order for anyone to get a single dollar from the government that money must be taken from someone else. That money is taken through force and threats. I know some Liberals are ready to jump on this statement because the government can print money. Well, that dollar printed lowers the value of every other dollar, so it is still taken, the thief is just spread out and the effects not felt until later.
    If you want to be a comfortable slave then by all means, turn your freedom over to a government. Just please leave the rest of us out of it.

  • Matthew Reece

    And hardly a single conservative or liberal will blame the Federal Reserve System for creating the conditions under which this story took place.

  • redastcyr

    There is a whole lot of Suzie’s out there The problem for others is Suzie an people like her are pushed in the forefront because of her ignorance She is made the voice of reason by those who benefit from ignorance!

  • Jessica

    This story fits my Southwest Virginia life almost perfectly. Except that this Susie understands and has very uncomfortable family holidays now.

  • fairness_rules

    So sad but so true! I know people that think like this, it is mind boggling to me!

  • Shouldn’t a murderer stand against murder, and a thief stand against stealing? Shouldn’t we applaud them for seeing the light?

    What is wrong with people who are, or who have been, on welfare from denouncing it? It is the right thing to do! The attempt to use hypocrisy to buy their silence to their slave state is odious. Why would you sell your soul for a food stamp?

    The uncultured Marxists, and Cultural Marxists, want to control the debate and force the opposition to shut up by pulling the hypocrisy card. This would doom mankind to their slave state. There is nothing wrong with poverty. Sleep in the bed you made. Hypocrisy of others is no excuse to steal. The best thing to do is to never go on welfare so you never have to feel obligated to bite the hand that feeds you. Who but the liberals would like to reduce mankind to a much of caged animals with their hands out?


    • joynlife

      Most of the poverty in the U.S. is caused by greed. I am old enough to remember when most companies gave benefits to their employees as part of their payroll. Workers earned a good wage, retirement, educational benefits and healthcare. Now, the corporations have shipped most manufacturing jobs overseas. The jobs that are left, are minimum wage jobs that don’t pay enough to feed and house a family. Most of the recipients of “welfare” are the elderly, children and working families. If capitalism is not regulated to pay a living wage, then all the wealth funnel to the 1%. The answer is not to blame the poor, but to legislate a living wage, implement Medicare for all, ensure all Americans access to education, and tax imported goods to level the markets.

      • If greed causes poverty, does “anti-greed” create wealth? If the elixir of anti-greed creates wealth, then we don’t need a “living” wage, which is nothing but eating off someone else’s plate. The wages of American workers were doomed to go down after the fall of communism. BILLIONS of new people entered the labor market. The prices of everything would have gone down and American workers would have benefited from the cheaper products, even as their wages declined.

        Instead statist spending collapsed the dollar by monetizing an endless national debt. We’ve had higher prices and lower wages since 1973. Liberalism drives business out of town, out of state, and out of America. That’s why there aren’t jobs anymore. It’s a cult fixated on any type of inequality, which they demonize and demand reparations in a constant state of class warfare. Nobody buys their shakedown anymore.

        If my company has 1 billion shares, and I sell one share to you for $1, the deal value of the company is $1 billion. Can I really get a billion for the company? It’s just on paper.

        There is no 1%. It is only on paper. If they all sold their shares at once, this 1% would simply not exist.

        Medicare for all? I thought Obamacareless was so wonderful. Medicare is one of the top three most corrupt programs around.

      • joynlife

        Repeating your insane lies does not make them true. If you think working hard to earn an honest days wages is “eating off someone else’s plate”, you are an idiot. When the ultra wealthy have purchased all the politicians, and paid minions like ALEC to right bills, 99.9% of the population suffers. Free trade agreements “drives business out of town”, like Walmart driving all the small businesses that sell made in USA products, out of town. Walmart is a great example of what is wrong with our economy. A much better economy would be generated if businesses used Costco as a role model.

        After looking at your website, I know I am wasting my time replying to you. You just won’t get it.

      • RINOVirus

        Don’t waste your time. This guy is a full on racist pig.

  • Highnlow

    My name is Mia Love and I want to represent Utah in the United States House of Representatives. The first thing I will do is end college student aid because the government spends way too much money on higher education. Please disregard that I received aid while in college–that is irrelevant.

  • BlueAlliance

    This is exactly how the right wing likes it…..keep them ignorant and we will have power!

  • Janice Peters-Hill

    I was raised in a rural community by my grandparents, who took me to church every sunday. They were Baptist. And our country preacher never preached politics from the pulpit. But my grandparents were staunch democrats, because they came up in the depression and President Roosevelt was the one who they believed saved this country. As a child. my church taught me to help others, work for what you want, be honest, and help others when you can. Not like todays Baptist, who are so narrowminded and selfrighteous.

  • Geoffrey Harris

    Well, would like to see references to real people with these experiences talking just this way.

  • white trash religious scum

    PRAI$E JEEEE$U$!!!!! VOTE white regressive GOP…

  • George Kovacs

    “And I Did It My Way”! Sinatra ain’t gonna help you!

  • Sue Roediger

    Ha ha haha…..self made woman !!

  • LadyC

    I’ve met hundreds of Susie types.

  • Ed Saller

    How many holes does it take…

  • UncleBucky

    Sounds like Paul Ayn Rand Ryan…

  • Rick Bates

    Mark Blyth joins some economic dots that explains this through another lens … in case you think he’s a complete loon … he also gave Trump 60% chance of winning … before the election … watch all through … the Q&A section is excellent.